DoyleG Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 One has to remember that the "offer" for the England women's team for John may not have been what it seemed. That program went from a contender to a tire fire in a few months. The FA wants a women's coach and may now get one (even if it is by default). Seems to be a push/shove situation in regards to how the structure is to be developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Chad_Impact said: "Some sources had told me that Zambrano was going to set the program behind so badly, that any chance of qualifying for the 2022 World Cup were vanishing, fast." Who the fuck are these people, and how the fuck do they come to these conclusions. There was a CLEAR improvement in the quality of play and organization on the field, and players seemed to really like him. It just makes no sense Old boys club resistant to change wanting status quo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acid-Tone Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 25 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said: Seriously? Friggin' seriously? Was he a woman's coach before he coached women or just a coach? Did his brain suddenly stop functioning and start degrading itself once he started coaching women. Seriously lame. Your unwillingness to admit there's a huge difference in coaching men's vs women's teams is strange. Take for example the fact that managing ego's in a squad is gonna be quite different when you consider most players in the men's team make a decent living with their club team's versus the women's side where the national team is just about the only thing that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, Chad_Impact said: "Some sources had told me that Zambrano was going to set the program behind so badly, that any chance of qualifying for the 2022 World Cup were vanishing, fast." Who the fuck are these people, and how the fuck do they come to these conclusions. There was a CLEAR improvement in the quality of play and organization on the field, and players seemed to really like him. It just makes no sense Its a smear campaign to cover up the CSAs bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, BearcatSA said: Who's telling the stories and what exactly is "lack of professionalism?" If this turns out to be the case, then you have to call into question the CSA's candidate vetting process. The Sandor article posted above, lots of stuff on twitter from Peter Schaad and others. Zambrano being disorganized, not communicating with players and teams, issues with budgets, etc. More than one have said that some of Zambrano's failings are of the type that can't be reported. I'm not sure what that means but I'll defer to those who are having these conversations with people in the know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, jonovision said: The Sandor article posted above, lots of stuff on twitter from Peter Schaad and others. Zambrano being disorganized, not communicating with players and teams, issues with budgets, etc. More than one have said that some of Zambrano's failings are of the type that can't be reported. I'm not sure what that means but I'll defer to those who are having these conversations with people in the know. Sounds like a smear campaign. “Cant be reported” did he not fly to europe and south america? It wasnt the players who were unhappy with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Herdman is a charlatan and the CSA morons bought his verbiage. Zambrano was too good for the CSA morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Acid-Tone said: Take for example the fact that managing ego's in a squad is gonna be quite different when you consider most players in the men's team make a decent living with their club team's versus the women's side where the national team is just about the only thing that matters. So you're saying without knowing anything about his training or background that he lacks the facility to either learn or adapt to that? How can a man ever coach a woman's team when he doesn't have a clue as to how 11 different player's menstrual cycles will affect them on a given day. There, there's a ridiculous response for a ridiculous original premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 How could hiring Oz be the worst mistake the CSA has ever made?? (From Sandor) He sure pissed off alot of people in 9 months if everyone wanted him gone. Bad breath/poor hygiene?? Stealing from the office fridge?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, king1010 said: Sounds like a smear campaign. “Cant be reported” did he not fly to europe and south america? It wasnt the players who were unhappy with him Honestly I don't think the CSA are organized enough to undertake a smear campaign. As for the bolded bit, first of all we have no way of knowing whether or not this is true, and deferring to the players opinion of coaches is a road we've gone down too many times with disastrous results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 46 minutes ago, nolbertos said: If this true than fuck the CSA for life. Zambrano wanted change, tried to implement a philosophy here, the CSA and Prov Associations weren’t on board, they complained, and sabotaged him. With that mentality, I seriously doubt any “sane” or top coach would want to be here, even if fhey offered more money. The Canadian Futbol politics needs to seriously change. Thing i want to know is what was he doing. The only thing i can think of was possibly overreaching and maybe breaking protocol with the Ecuador game but that's just my mind thinking. I want to know straight up what he did to step on toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Bison44 said: How could hiring Oz be the worst mistake the CSA has ever made?? (From Sandor) I wonder where he ranks Mitchell's time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingvikingstad Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 49 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said: So are the CFL and NFL, NHL and CHL, some can adapt some can't. It just seems most here have prejudged Herdman can't and that's bullshit. A few things I disagree with. A ) To suggest that after utilizing a good process and getting a bad result we just shouldn't use a process at all is a flawed argument all around. Let's say you're a person in charge of hiring doctors for your hospital. The first two are highly recommended, did really well in school and turn out to be just awful. Instead of trusting that the process is going to provide better results, you abandon it all and just hire someone out of intro biology because fuck it. B ) As you said, going from the women's game to the men's requires a transition or adaptation. I think we can all agree, any CMNT coach has their work cut out for them for so many different reasons. Wouldn't it suggest that in the hiring process you would want to limit the unknowns and ultimately the risk? That's why this makes no sense - it's tanking the approach that seemed to be working for a very, very high risk proposition. With the relatively small amount of error a CMNT manager is afforded, this seems a bad punt. C ) Some people ARE sexist - maybe some of the people arguing with you. Nonetheless, there is nothing inherently sexist about having concerns that the womens and mens games are different. There are reasons for it, including socialization, resources, etc, but it is different. The level of play is lower. The money that players in the men's game are paid is dramatically higher. This is not debatable, nor is it wrong to say so. As such, due to inherent differences in the way the games are played the tactics/approaches/management are very likely to be different. It is possible that Herdman has been held back by the level of technical skill of the women's game and maybe his knowledge punches above that level, but no one has any evidence of this yet. To be given a job of a men's national team without at least proving something at a decent level in the men's game is simply shocking to most, and that's not wrong. For the record, I am a practicing social worker, feminist and pretty far left and I can't see anything wrong with having this discussion. Nor am I making some implicit point about women or men. D ) This is directed more broadly, but I am gutted by Oz leaving. I really enjoyed his outlook, candidness, dealings with the media, courting of duals, and most importantly his on-field tactics. If I am ever going to be behind this move anytime soon there better be a really obvious reason they did this beyond Herdman giving an ultimatum to the CSA. If that is the case, it really says it all doesn't it. How can you be bullied into firing a coach one year into his tenure, who has had a positive track record on and off the field for a coach with no men's national team experience? How did Herdman out-leverage the CSA? Aren't these people meant to do this for a living? And this also reflects horribly on Herdman, backstabbing the current man in charge. E ) I would not be surprised if the primary reason for this was Herdman's handsome face and charisma. He has charmed a country before and has some cache beyond just footy fans. I can see the CSA having dollar signs blinking before their eyes at having Herdman as the talking head for Canadian Soccer and this may have convinced them that with increased sponsorship dollars and with trying to get the CanPL off the ground that Herdman could help with all that. Ultimately, I'm gutted and probably will be for a while. Just when it seems to be going in the right direction the CSA have to meddle and turn it back 180 degrees. Will we never catch a break as CMNT supporters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 This is pretty fucked up. I’ll wait to make further judgement but for now I’m just shocked. The Sandor article if true is disappointing. We all respect Marc Dos Santos and some here have pleaded for him to be name MNT coach, but if OZ never contacted him or FC Edmonton about prospective call ups that’s pretty telling. That’s the same bullshit we hated Floro for. Marc Weber also saying that OZ was on the way out regardless. Edit: further to the Sandor article, he mentions PM wanting someone in place before he left, could this be a “new GM wanting his guy at coach” type thing we see in pro sports all the time? OZ wasn’t Reed’s guy and he wanted him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 54 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said: I have a question. When people get coaching licenses and certifications are there separate licenses that only have courses in how to coach women or how to coach men? Or are there just courses that tell you how to coach people and then leave it up to you how to interpret and implement that knowledge? Just wonderin' I’m not sure if you know about this, but when people apply for jobs they also look at one’s job experience along with one’s education...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said: You have absolutely no clue about the potential or capability of this man.... EXACTLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, canta15 said: I’m not sure if you know about this, but when people apply for jobs they also look at one’s job experience along with one’s education...... So he neither has experience or any coaching education? He does? But it's "only" women. If that isn't sexist I don't know what is. I guess he only took the coaching "women only" certification licenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said: Seeing, as you're the expert tell me what the difference is in handling human beings of all sizes, shapes, attitudes, races, colours and creeds. How many coaches can we hire with World Cup or Olympic experience. We haven't had too many recently aside from Floro. We can hire a coach who atleast has some experience at the men’s level.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad_Impact Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Until further information comes out, I'm going to continue to look at this through the stage that matters the most, and that's what happens on the field. Just look at how he helped some of our core players. Osorio literally credits Zambrano as one of the reasons for his improvement this past year, and Piette went from playing in the 4th division of Spain to starting with the Impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Bringing sex into this is stupid. Fans and experts alike think coaches wont win for all sorts of reasons, he cant coach the 4-3-3, he is a posession coach, he is a hoofball coach, he is too rigid in his thinking, he doesnt have CONCACAF experience, he only has CONCACAF experience, he cant utilize his strikers against a blah blah blah!!! Let alone he has spent his life coaching the womens game. If you think he is a genius make him the director of coaching and development, long term player development etc, or stick him in DEVOS job if he is so smart etc. Sinclair and company have been making him look better than he is since he walked in the door. When he goes from top 10 talent (canadian women) to 90+ like the men, then we'll see how good a coach he is. But the CDN fan in me hopes that it isnt a disaster....just when I thought we had turned a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just read the sandor piece. I think i believe his narrative more than rollins. Csa comes off bad in both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, kingvikingstad said: Will we never catch a break as CMNT supporters? Maybe we have and it is about to be proven, by Mr Herdman ya never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, canta15 said: We can hire a coach who atleast has some experience at the men’s level.... And how is that different. Is there some sort of male playing tactic that Herdman is unaware of, seeing he is a professional coach and immersed in the game and has forgotten more than anyone here will ever know. I want to know, what is he incapable of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said: So he neither has experience or any coaching education? He does? But it's "only" women. If that isn't sexist I don't know what is. I guess he only took the coaching "women only" certification licenses. Get this through your thick skull. Its not that they are girls, it that the level jump is ridiculous. Would you feel more comfortable if we imagined all those girls had dicks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bison44 said: When he goes from top 10 talent (canadian women) to 90+ like the men, then we'll see how good a coach he is. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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