Herdman new head coach

[red card]

As aptly stated by 

28 minutes ago, archer21 said:

If the argument is that Herdman should call extra players to get them integrated with the squad, then I agree. However, I do agree with El Hombre that it wouldn’t have made a difference in actual matches. If we called Akindele instead of Brym, and gave him the minutes that Brym has, nobody would be complaining about not calling in more guys. The problem is that most here disagree with Brym being called over Tesho. 
 

Another thing, people keep saying “we didn’t replace the injured/Covid players”. Sure we did. We had 23 players in the first window and 23 players in the 2nd window, not counting the injured guys. Just because the roster release showed 27 guys or whatever doesn’t mean we actually intended on having 27. We probably intended on 23 like first window and just added the extra names in case they ended up making it.

Correct, it's a marginal debate at best. Not worth the hand wringing seen here. Herdman is a man of details, so it isn't as if it was an oversight in not calling more players. 

I believe I read the US camp say that bringing in 30 players would be too much to manage in these windows. So, calling in 23-27 is a good number.

Wheeler also mentioned during the broadcast that Herdman believes Brym plays better with better players around him. So that gives me an inkling that Brym isn't just a gap filler like Tesho.

Edited October 14, 2021 by red card

[Califax]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Brym getting into all 3 games (when he prob shouldnt have even been called) tells me we werent covered.  David starting and playing 80+min in all 3 games when he was having, lets say an off window, tells me we werent covered.  Midfield was covered and everyone in camp contributed..check, defense was covered and almost everyone contributed..check.  Striker, not so much....  

yup. 

20 minutes ago, red card said:

Correct, it's a marginal debate at best. Not worth the hand wringing seen here.

I mean, I don't know what you think this is, but I'd describe it as textbook marginal... which kinda characterizes 95% of the back-and-forths on here for the past 20 years. 🤣
 

If the argument is "no criticism of Herdman is warranted" we have a come a long, long way.
 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Califax

[toontownman]

I will happily be in the minority. 

I said in the other thread Brym is the future. Not because I believe he is the next David, or that he couldn't be either. To be honest I actually thought he was two years younger than he is too! I said it purely because we know exactly what we will get with Tesho. He is the past of this program. He is reliable in putting a shift in but not a game changer at this level imo, and I am a big fan of tesho. 

Arguing why Tesho wasn't drafted in when larin and hoilett dropped I am in agreement with. Both Brym and Tesho should have been there. 

The difference is one has more of an unknown ceiling. Brym was a big disappointment in WCQ though and the first two matches here but we saw glimpses of what Herdman sees last night and in his debut. I'm absolutely fine with herdman having someone that will be in the program at least 6 more years over someone who isn't likely to get better or has more of a ceiling. Either way we don't get to see what herdman sees on the training pitch and in camp.

[narduch]

Tesho has been ice cold as well at the club level. Pretty much since Dike returned.

 

 

[dyslexic nam]

I am not crapping on Brym and I thought he did fine last night when he came on.  But I didn’t see much in the Mexico game to warrant the time on the field.  Jamaica was just too little to tell anything, scuffed cross aside.  

My only real criticism is that this process isn’t the time to bed in young guys who are less impactful than their more experienced alternatives.   Tesho may not exactly be a game-changer at this level but I think he would put in a professional shift and that he would be more likely to contribute in a way that gets us the result we need.  

And for me, that is the overriding consideration in this specific process.  We need to be 100% results oriented and to absolutely maximize our chances of getting every point we can.  And I can’t think of a specific situation where I would rather have Brym on the field over Tesho.  That may not be the case in a year or two, but it is right now.   

[VinceA]

29 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I am not crapping on Brym and I thought he did fine last night when he came on.  But I didn’t see much in the Mexico game to warrant the time on the field.  Jamaica was just too little to tell anything, scuffed cross aside.  

My only real criticism is that this process isn’t the time to bed in young guys who are less impactful than their more experienced alternatives.   Tesho may not exactly be a game-changer at this level but I think he would put in a professional shift and that he would be more likely to contribute in a way that gets us the result we need.  

And for me, that is the overriding consideration in this specific process.  We need to be 100% results oriented and to absolutely maximize our chances of getting every point we can.  And I can’t think of a specific situation where I would rather have Brym on the field over Tesho.  That may not be the case in a year or two, but it is right now.   

My thing is if we're calling in guys from the Eerste Divisie, and guys who aren't even that productive at that level, I'd rather see a CPL FW called in instead.

[El Hombre]

15 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You want a guy who just moved from 2nd division Russia to 1st, playing Zenith, Cska, all the top sides, to be more consistent? His team is upper half of the table and he starts regularly. 

In terms of league quality, Ennin is in our top 5-6. Anything else is parochial blinkers getting in the way. 

Maybe consistent was the wrong word.  I guess I'm gunshy from the time Di Chiara was "playing" in the Russian top flight and the hype train started for him.  Ennin's stay there has already been more fruitful, so you're probably right that it is just personal blinders on my part.

[El Hombre]

16 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Now I know how Obinna or UT must feel when they argue with you.  I'll leave it at this, there are 2 kinds of people, those with loaded pistols, and those who dig.  I'll never complain about Herdman calling an extra guy or two so we dont end up digging eh?? 

My apologies.  I wasn't trying to pick a fight.  Just trying to understand this sentiment that has come from a few people this round.

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, El Hombre said:

Maybe consistent was the wrong word.  I guess I'm gunshy from the time Di Chiara was "playing" in the Russian top flight and the hype train started for him.  Ennin's stay there has already been more fruitful, so you're probably right that it is just personal blinders on my part.

I am only arguing Ennin in relation to Brym, so I hope I am not overstating anything. Even Bair scoring and playing well on the best team in 2nd tier Norway warrants more consideration on my part, although if Brym starts producing in Erste then I would change my pitch, I guess.

Also because Bair has more pro experience and I've actually seen him score for Whitecaps, and nicely.

Brym and Bair disappointed terribly in Olympic qualifying, and IMO neither really deserve to see full men's NT minutes until they make major club statements. That means being on a club in a decent league, playing regularly, and making a clear contribution. 

That is the message I would like to send out to players. So Wotherspoon, for example: regular solid play in SPL. He's nothing spectacular, but I am fine with that roster spot.

[red card]

 

[Cblake]

Now this would have been interesting, wonder what they compared notes on, Mexico I assume (  :

 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 hours ago, Cblake said:

Now this would have been interesting, wonder what they compared notes on, Mexico I assume (  :

 

Another bit of innocence from Herdman. That could easily be construed as a basis for collusion.

In fact it used to be you could be sanctioned as a player for undue socialising with a rival team's player. 

What if a rival, say Mexico, concludes the US and Canada are sharing notes to derail them? Or if a Canadian ref does a game favoring the US, or vice versa? Or if a perception arises that having a Canadian heading Concacaf means Canada is favoured?

Before he admitted to forcing cards. He should be told to shut up, but no one at the CSA has a clue, they're amateurs. 

[frmr]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Another bit of innocence from Herdman. That could easily be construed as a basis for collusion.

In fact it used to be you could be sanctioned as a player for undue socialising with a rival team's player. 

What if a rival, say Mexico, concludes the US and Canada are sharing notes to derail them? Or if a Canadian ref does a game favoring the US, or vice versa? Or if a perception arises that having a Canadian heading Concacaf means Canada is favoured?

Before he admitted to forcing cards. He should be told to shut up, but no one at the CSA has a clue, they're amateurs. 

Sigh.

[OhCanadaOhBaby]

Where are people getting all this new Herdman stuff? Did he do an interview somewhere?

Also I don't know who that Marcotti guy is but I LOVE the fact that he looks EXACTLY like a little bitch.

Seriously though, I can't be the only one that found that tweet distasteful. I mean what kind of comment (from a journalist mind you) is that supposed to be? Goes from saying I don't known the guy, seemingly trying to absolve himself of any wrongdoings, to trying to belittle the manager of men's national team program. While at the same time, also throws a little shade towards the women's game. Not explicitly, but in the context of everything else he said, it makes you think, "Well what do you mean by that??" Overall, it's completely disrespectful from him, regardless of his intentions to be funny. 

I get it was supposed to be banter but I still think he's way off in a few respects. 

[Joe MacCarthy]

1 hour ago, OhCanadaOhBaby said:

Also I don't know who that Marcotti guy is but I LOVE the fact that he looks EXACTLY like a little bitch.

Seriously though, I can't be the only one that found that tweet distasteful.

You might be the only one that found it distasteful.  Your post sounds really "woke".  Are you looking for something that isn't there?  What he said was meant to be complimentary, that Herdman defies male stereotypes of a typical men's team coach.  He is actually saying what I think you want him to say (in general).

[The Real Marc]

16 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

You might be the only one that found it distasteful.  Your post sounds really "woke".  Are you looking for something that isn't there?  What he said was meant to be complimentary, that Herdman defies male stereotypes of a typical men's team coach.  He is actually saying what I think you want him to say (in general).

Im pretty sure anyone posting about someone being a little bitch is not trying to be woke

[Joe MacCarthy]

10 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

Im pretty sure anyone posting about someone being a little bitch is not trying to be woke

Yes, I did notice that, which is why I quoted it.  Not talking about the OP, but the woke crowd isn't known to be particularly consistent or constant in their thoughts.

[dyslexic nam]

14 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Yes, I did notice that, which is why I quoted it.  Not talking about the OP, but the woke crowd isn't known to be particularly consistent or constant in their thoughts.

Nothing personal, but one could make the same argument about the group of people who tend to refer to others as “woke”.  The reality is that there is lots of muddled thinking on both sides of the ideological divide.  

[Joe MacCarthy]

13 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Nothing personal, but one could make the same argument about the group of people who tend to refer to others as “woke”.  The reality is that there is lots of muddled thinking on both sides of the ideological divide.  

As Freud may have said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Joe MacCarthy

[OhCanadaOhBaby]

7 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

You might be the only one that found it distasteful.  Your post sounds really "woke".  Are you looking for something that isn't there?  What he said was meant to be complimentary, that Herdman defies male stereotypes of a typical men's team coach.  He is actually saying what I think you want him to say (in general).

Nah Im not tryna be woke 😂 . That’s just how I read it. Might have misunderstood it but that was my interpretation. I can kinda see what you mean, that he was trying to compliment Herdman, but it just didn’t sound too compliment-like. Idk you’re probably right, I just read that and was like if someone said that about me I would feel slightly disrespected. All you gotta say is he’s a good coach, no a good coach…DESPITE this that and the other. You get what I’m sayin?

[Joe MacCarthy]

I'm gittin' it 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

22 hours ago, OhCanadaOhBaby said:

Where are people getting all this new Herdman stuff? Did he do an interview somewhere?

Also I don't know who that Marcotti guy is but I LOVE the fact that he looks EXACTLY like a little bitch.

Seriously though, I can't be the only one that found that tweet distasteful. I mean what kind of comment (from a journalist mind you) is that supposed to be? Goes from saying I don't known the guy, seemingly trying to absolve himself of any wrongdoings, to trying to belittle the manager of men's national team program. While at the same time, also throws a little shade towards the women's game. Not explicitly, but in the context of everything else he said, it makes you think, "Well what do you mean by that??" Overall, it's completely disrespectful from him, regardless of his intentions to be funny. 

I get it was supposed to be banter but I still think he's way off in a few respects. 

Marcotti grew up around the world, speaks a ton of languages, knows a lot and is a decent writer.  But he can be a bit of a wind-up merchant, especially to English football establishment types.  Part of it is him having to defend having an American accent and being taken seriously talking about football, based out of London (still I believe).

The short of it - I would take the tweet as genuinely complimentary, while purposely poking the, especially English, football bear a bit.  

Edited October 17, 2021 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Sal333]

A very insightful video into Herdman and what happened to this team especially the answer Herdman gave to the last question.

 

 

[yomurphy1]

2 hours ago, Sal333 said:

A very insightful video into Herdman and what happened to this team especially the answer Herdman gave to the last question.

 

 

People should give this a listen starting 23:27.

There were dustups in Herdman's first two camps. 

[Snowcrash]

32 minutes ago, yomurphy1 said:

People should give this a listen starting 23:27.

There were dustups in Herdman's first two camps. 

Scottish cliques, Spanish-speaking cliques, Eastern European cliques...