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Herdman new head coach


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On 10/11/2021 at 2:34 PM, nolbertos said:

Herdman does deserve credit for the tie, but Berhalter as a player tied Mexico at Azteca already and beaten Tata twice in a meaningful competition.  So far Herdman has yet to beat Tata and Berhalter, but has come close.  Right now Berhalter is “unofficially” the best and Tata second.

Edit: Herdman has done alot for the CMNT, but he hasn’t reached Tony Waiters or Holger’s level of accomplishments yet.  He’s getting better but “almost” qualifying for the World Cup won’t help his status, if he doesn’t get the team there.

This is a minority opinion in the US media & fan base

 

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6 hours ago, canuckgbp said:

Essentially we had only 24 called that we knew were available. Hoilett going down was unforeseen but that reinforces the need for a bigger squad. Think he has to get over only calling 23-24 and get 27 involved. This window should have been the one with 30 with 3/4 on "in the best case" we can use them. 

But it is worse than this because we knew Hoilett and Wotherspoon were out for Mexico.  So only 22, plus a bunch already on yellows that would force additional rotation.  If we find out tomorrow there is an agreement with Bayern and Lille to manage the Dav's minutes...yikes!

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I'm so glad no one besides the die hards and chattering classes are talking about his skelaton squad selection, because it means we won.

But he can't pull that shit again. Full roster are a must. We need bodies and cant call people who can't come / can't play.

Get anyone: Tesho, Arfield, Tabla, Ian Hume, Terry Dunfield, Bob Lenarduzi, the polkaroo, whoever. 

Huge three points tho. His subs were great, his lineup was great but ill never understand calling guys who can't play  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Califax said:

I'm so glad no one besides the die hards and chattering classes are talking about his skelaton squad selection, because it means we won.

But he can't pull that shit again. Full roster are a must. We need bodies and cant call people who can't come / can't play.

Get anyone: Tesho, Arfield, Tabla, Ian Hume, Terry Dunfield, Bob Lenarduzi, the polkaroo, whoever. 

Huge three points tho. His subs were great, his lineup was great but ill never understand calling guys who can't play 

I don't quite understand this.  What purpose would it serve to call more players?

Only Crepeau played 270 minutes.

After him, the next most minutes played was Phonzie at 261.  That's a heavy workload, I admit, but if there is someone who can handle it, it should be the 20 year-old who is also the best player in the region.

After that, only David, Osorio and Johnston played more than 200 minutes.  I think Johnston and Osorio played well.  Not sure who you would replace them with.

On the flip side, we've got guys like Millar, Piette, Wotherspoon, and Shaffleburg who saw the pitch for less than 100 total minutes over the three days.  That's pretty good coverage for the front 5 or 6.  ZBG didn't see the pitch at all.  Neither did Hoilett who was scheduled to play, most likely 150 minutes over the last two games, but was injured in training in Jamaica.

What would calling more guys really do?

Now, if you're saying call Tesho instead of Brym.  Sure.  I'm on board with that, but that is different.  Herdman took a gamble on a 23 year-old and now he knows where he sits.  Hopefully the next gamble will work out better.

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Why was it an either or situation??  He had spots, he used them on guys that were not healthy and it was pretty obvious they werent going to play.  You bring Tesho in and Brym/Ennin etc.  Get a couple more guys involved, its a long campaign, who knows what injuries are coming down the pike and which guy 3-4th in the depth chart is going to need to play.  I am a big fan of this. 

Pasher didnt look all that great last time, but you bring him in, get him integrated into the team the "brotherhood". Same with Brym or SHaff, or Corbeanu, Choiniere, Baldisimo, Waterman etc.   Fill out the squad and maybe the guys take that back to their club and amp up their seasons eh??  

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32 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Why was it an either or situation??  He had spots, he used them on guys that were not healthy and it was pretty obvious they werent going to play.  You bring Tesho in and Brym/Ennin etc.  Get a couple more guys involved, its a long campaign, who knows what injuries are coming down the pike and which guy 3-4th in the depth chart is going to need to play.  I am a big fan of this. 

Pasher didnt look all that great last time, but you bring him in, get him integrated into the team the "brotherhood". Same with Brym or SHaff, or Corbeanu, Choiniere, Baldisimo, Waterman etc.   Fill out the squad and maybe the guys take that back to their club and amp up their seasons eh??  

But you're bringing in guys that are just going to sit on the bench.  There are guys much better than the ones you listed that were called that barely touched the field and are already there for injury cover.

Plus, he's already doing that: St. Clair, Shaffleburg, Millar, Brym and Cornelius were not called in September.  You bring in too many more guys and you'll be spending all your time acclimating the new guys and getting them up to speed rather than preparing for the upcoming opponents.

I get what you're saying, but if this is the complaint about Herdman, then we are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

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1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

Why was it an either or situation??  He had spots, he used them on guys that were not healthy and it was pretty obvious they werent going to play.  You bring Tesho in and Brym/Ennin etc.  Get a couple more guys involved, its a long campaign, who knows what injuries are coming down the pike and which guy 3-4th in the depth chart is going to need to play.  I am a big fan of this. 

Pasher didnt look all that great last time, but you bring him in, get him integrated into the team the "brotherhood". Same with Brym or SHaff, or Corbeanu, Choiniere, Baldisimo, Waterman etc.   Fill out the squad and maybe the guys take that back to their club and amp up their seasons eh??  

Well said. The purpose they serve is insurance. 

It worked out, but the gamble of not having bodies is bigger than concerns having too many that you can't play. 

Thats a luxury Canada will have for years to come. 

If I'm honest, I don't buy the latter as a real problem. These are big boys, they don't need kid treatment. Any experience is good imo. 

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We needed another striker....we had someone better than Brym sitting in Orlando.  Tesho comes in actually plays 30 minutes, David rests etc.  I dont understand why he wasnt called ALONG with Brym.  I used the other guys as examples, because you never know where we might be short next camp.  If Larin or Hutch was never going to play, why not call Tesho and someone else??  How is that going to hurt the camp?? 

St CLair was there because Borjan wasnt, Cornelius filled in for Kennedy, soooo.....2 strikers are out from the regular roster, bring in 2 more..seems pretty obvious.  And especially for a guy who is supposedly so good on the details.   Now if I wanted to complain, I would talk about how we continually get caught flat footed and go behind so early.  

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4 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

We needed another striker....we had someone better than Brym sitting in Orlando.  Tesho comes in actually plays 30 minutes, David rests etc.  I dont understand why he wasnt called ALONG with Brym.  I used the other guys as examples, because you never know where we might be short next camp.  If Larin or Hutch was never going to play, why not call Tesho and someone else??  How is that going to hurt the camp?? 

St CLair was there because Borjan wasnt, Cornelius filled in for Kennedy, soooo.....2 strikers are out from the regular roster, bring in 2 more..seems pretty obvious.  And especially for a guy who is supposedly so good on the details.   Now if I wanted to complain, I would talk about how we continually get caught flat footed and go behind so early.  

But why bring in both Tesho AND Brym, when Brym will just be sitting on the bench (or in the press box)?  I'm pretty sure the plan for David resting was having Buchanan play up top more, but that became more difficult with Hoillet getting injured.  Nevertheless, if David needed rest and Buchanan was otherwise occupied, why not insert Millar up there?  He's got experience in the position.  Or you can move Davies up there and have Shaffleburg deputize for Davies?

Only so many people can get on the pitch at the same time.

Now, if we get to November and Brym is still on the roster, I will have a complaint.  We tried that experiment, I don't think it worked at this level, lets try something else.

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Bottom line for me is that Brym did not earn a call up with his club play after a lukewarm run with the U23s.  Shaffelburg earned his place with goals and assists at TFC. Tesho has 3 goals and 5 assists this year. Brym has exactly jack squat in 2nd tier Netherlands. So it is odd. I'd rather have seen Corbeanu back if your gonna bring someone who's done nothing lately. Bringing in Ennin hurts no one. 

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I also want to say that I'm very happy that Herdman got Nations League Qualifying, Nations League, and TWO Gold Cups as well as the preliminary WCQ rounds to figure things out. 

Unprecedented "practice" time with the team prior to WCQ starting in earnest. 

I'm glad, for example, we weren't in a WCQ group of 4 with Mex, Panama and Haiti in 2019-2020. Who knows what would've happened. Things have broken quite favourably for Herdman and the #CanMNT in recent years, and goddammit, we deserve every bit of luck we get. 

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6 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

I'm glad, for example, we weren't in a WCQ group of 4 with Mex, Panama and Haiti in 2019-2020. Who knows what would've happened. Things have broken quite favourably for Herdman and the #CanMNT in recent years, and goddammit, we deserve every bit of luck we get. 

I have maintained that almost everything about this process has lined up in our favour (for a pleasant and unprecedented change).  The change of format gave us a shot at the Ocho rather than the silly back door pathway previously envisioned.  Even if you look at the way our games built up on this process as we faced minnows of increasing strength, then Suriname, then finally Haiti (which is the most respectable opponent).  Then we got to build and test depth in the GC and try ourselves against Mexico and the USA.  

In short, it actually seems like the stars have lined up for us to actually qualify.  
 

 

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24 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Bottom line for me is that Brym did not earn a call up with his club play after a lukewarm run with the U23s.  Shaffelburg earned his place with goals and assists at TFC. Tesho has 3 goals and 5 assists this year. Brym has exactly jack squat in 2nd tier Netherlands. So it is odd. I'd rather have seen Corbeanu back if your gonna bring someone who's done nothing lately. Bringing in Ennin hurts no one. 

It's hard to argue with that.  I agree that there are better, more deserving options.  However, to be fair to Brym, he played 90 in their last three games (and 85 the one before that).  Again though, I'm hopeful that this experiment is put on pause for a bit until he really starts tearing it up. 

I'm not sold on Ennin as I'd like to see him be more consistent.

 

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24 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

But why bring in both Tesho AND Brym, when Brym will just be sitting on the bench (or in the press box)?  I'm pretty sure the plan for David resting was having Buchanan play up top more, but that became more difficult with Hoillet getting injured.  Nevertheless, if David needed rest and Buchanan was otherwise occupied, why not insert Millar up there?  He's got experience in the position.  Or you can move Davies up there and have Shaffleburg deputize for Davies?

Only so many people can get on the pitch at the same time.Now, if we get to November and Brym is still on the roster, I will have a complaint.  We tried that experiment, I don't think it worked at this level, lets try something else.

Whats wrong with guys sitting on the bench??  Whats wrong with Tesho being there in case Davies doesnt score his wonder goal and we are scrambling to finish off Panama??   I dont care if its Brym or someone else (i have no axe to grind against Brym), but why not call a full compliment??  If herdmans plan was to use Davies, Millar etc as strikers thats fine, then I guess we werent short on strikers.  But 3 games in a short window with yellows and injuries, it doesnt take much to get caught short handed (ie gold cup).  And who didnt get used that was actually in the camp??  Back up keepers and ZBG??  I would argue that ZBG could have easily come on for Johnston. Having a couple more bodies in camp so we have insurance in a 3 game window doesnt seem like a wild off the wall idea.   And picking up an extra couple guys playing in NA doesnt seem that hard.  Hell, they could have even saved money, set up cots and went 3 to a room.  Or maybe Drake will pay for an extra hotel room next camp??   

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Obviously this wouldn't work because money, but with the team being in Edmonton for a full week it would serve as a cool opportunity to piggy back a Camp Poutine in Edmonton for players not currently in Herdman's plans. Bring in all the domestic/MLS players on the radar and maybe a handful of Europeans if possible, let them train separate from the team there for Mexico and Costa Rica, maybe have a few 11v11 scrimmages, and let anyone on the bubble get a taste of what could be if they step it up a bit

It could both serve as a MNT "development" camp for a week and have immediate insurance for the inevitable 23-26 man squad we'll call in

 

Edit: the more I think about this, the more I like the idea... surely there's a hotel in Edmonton that could cut the CSA a deal

Edited by Approve My Account Pls
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38 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Whats wrong with guys sitting on the bench??  Whats wrong with Tesho being there in case Davies doesnt score his wonder goal and we are scrambling to finish off Panama??   I dont care if its Brym or someone else (i have no axe to grind against Brym), but why not call a full compliment??  If herdmans plan was to use Davies, Millar etc as strikers thats fine, then I guess we werent short on strikers.  But 3 games in a short window with yellows and injuries, it doesnt take much to get caught short handed (ie gold cup).  And who didnt get used that was actually in the camp??  Back up keepers and ZBG??  I would argue that ZBG could have easily come on for Johnston. Having a couple more bodies in camp so we have insurance in a 3 game window doesnt seem like a wild off the wall idea.   And picking up an extra couple guys playing in NA doesnt seem that hard.  Hell, they could have even saved money, set up cots and went 3 to a room.  Or maybe Drake will pay for an extra hotel room next camp??   

But what I'm saying is that coverage was already there.  We lost two players to yellows and another to injury and we were still able to give another two of the starting eleven a complete game off.  And even with all that, quality players like Millar and Wotherspoon still only got spot-duty.  The fact that ZBG wasn't need as cover for either Johnston and Buchanan or whoever else was playing on the right side tells me that we were covered.

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40 minutes ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

Obviously this wouldn't work because money, but with the team being in Edmonton for a full week it would serve as a cool opportunity to piggy back a Camp Poutine in Edmonton for players not currently in Herdman's plans. Bring in all the domestic/MLS players on the radar and maybe a handful of Europeans if possible, let them train separate from the team there for Mexico and Costa Rica, maybe have a few 11v11 scrimmages, and let anyone on the bubble get a taste of what could be if they step it up a bit

It could both serve as a MNT "development" camp for a week and have immediate insurance for the inevitable 23-26 man squad we'll call in

 

Edit: the more I think about this, the more I like the idea... surely there's a hotel in Edmonton that could cut the CSA a deal

I think this is a great idea but only if its done the week before players start arriving.  However, with the November window so close to the MLS games that are still going on at that point, it wouldn't be possible then.  But something like this would be perfect for the January window.  Ideally it would be two weeks (starting January 10th) for MLS players (and others out of season).  If you can fit in a friendly (January 15th would be perfect) or two that would be all the better. 

The reason it should be in the weeks before players arrive is so that you can work on match fitness for the MLS guys and integrate new guys.  However, once the rest of the first team arrives on the Sunday/Monday, that's when you have to leave the Camp Poutine guys aside and plan for the upcoming games.  You can't waste time that week.

Not sure where you would host it.  Paying for indoor facilities for 3.5 weeks might be pretty costly and not sure if it makes sense to do two weeks down in Florida and then pop around from there.

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I hate getting dragged into these conversations but I will throw in my 2 cents.

It was incredibly unprofessional how OZ was let go and how Herdman was hired.  The cover up by the CSA was very unprofessional in opinion, especially after I thought he showed promise in the short period he was coaching.  I was skeptical of Herdman coming over from the women's program.  Our men's soccer is different than the women's program altogether but I was proved wrong.

Now, although I still think how the CSA handled the release of OZ and hiring Herdman was very poorly executed, I do believe it has been the right choice now that time has passed.  In regards to OZ, his tweets and antics post firing show a lack of professionalism that has rubbed me the wrong way.  On the other side of things, Herdman has impressed me with his recruitment and togetherness of this current team.  On results based, there is no doubt that this is best string of results that we have put together in a long time.  Yes, no other coach has had this quality of players playing for them but that doesn't take away from his success.  CONCACAF continues to improve as well so he is also playing against stronger opponents as a whole (I am referring to this generally as you cannot say this is a batter Costa Rica side than 2014 etc.).

For me, I am all aboard the Herdman train at this point.  The only frustration I have is how his hiring took place.

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1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

But what I'm saying is that coverage was already there.  We lost two players to yellows and another to injury and we were still able to give another two of the starting eleven a complete game off.  And even with all that, quality players like Millar and Wotherspoon still only got spot-duty.  The fact that ZBG wasn't need as cover for either Johnston and Buchanan or whoever else was playing on the right side tells me that we were covered.

Brym getting into all 3 games (when he prob shouldnt have even been called) tells me we werent covered.  David starting and playing 80+min in all 3 games when he was having, lets say an off window, tells me we werent covered.  Midfield was covered and everyone in camp contributed..check, defense was covered and almost everyone contributed..check.  Striker, not so much....  

Now I know how Obinna or UT must feel when they argue with you.  I'll leave it at this, there are 2 kinds of people, those with loaded pistols, and those who dig.  I'll never complain about Herdman calling an extra guy or two so we dont end up digging eh??  

Tuco_15.jpg

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3 hours ago, El Hombre said:

It's hard to argue with that.  I agree that there are better, more deserving options.  However, to be fair to Brym, he played 90 in their last three games (and 85 the one before that).  Again though, I'm hopeful that this experiment is put on pause for a bit until he really starts tearing it up. 

I'm not sold on Ennin as I'd like to see him be more consistent.

 

You want a guy who just moved from 2nd division Russia to 1st, playing Zenith, Cska, all the top sides, to be more consistent? His team is upper half of the table and he starts regularly. 

In terms of league quality, Ennin is in our top 5-6. Anything else is parochial blinkers getting in the way. 

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1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

Brym getting into all 3 games (when he prob shouldnt have even been called) tells me we werent covered.  David starting and playing 80+min in all 3 games when he was having, lets say an off window, tells me we werent covered.  Midfield was covered and everyone in camp contributed..check, defense was covered and almost everyone contributed..check.  Striker, not so much....  

Now I know how Obinna or UT must feel when they argue with you.  I'll leave it at this, there are 2 kinds of people, those with loaded pistols, and those who dig.  I'll never complain about Herdman calling an extra guy or two so we dont end up digging eh??  

Tuco_15.jpg

If the argument is that Herdman should call extra players to get them integrated with the squad, then I agree. However, I do agree with El Hombre that it wouldn’t have made a difference in actual matches. If we called Akindele instead of Brym, and gave him the minutes that Brym has, nobody would be complaining about not calling in more guys. The problem is that most here disagree with Brym being called over Tesho. 
 

Another thing, people keep saying “we didn’t replace the injured/Covid players”. Sure we did. We had 23 players in the first window and 23 players in the 2nd window, not counting the injured guys. Just because the roster release showed 27 guys or whatever doesn’t mean we actually intended on having 27. We probably intended on 23 like first window and just added the extra names in case they ended up making it.

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