Herdman new head coach

[frmr]

2 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

I dislike Herdman, but he has done a good job lately. For me if we don’t qualify he should be fired simple as that. If we qualify he keeps his job until World Cup. After World Cup 2022. Right away him and the CSA to have build a true youth program and scout like crazy. That 2026 team needs to be crazy good, even better then the team that we have now. If those youth teams don’t produce from 2020 to 2024 he should be gone. Herdman has been given the keys to the castle so it all rests on his shoulders. 

See, normally I feel like you're one of the guilty offenders, but this is a reasonable post, even though I'm not sure I completely agree.

[Joe MacCarthy]

2 minutes ago, frmr said:

See, normally I feel like you're one of the guilty offenders, but this is a reasonable post, even though I'm not sure I completely agree.

I agree, I go by what a person posts not who they are, or past history.  It's funny how one day a person can be an adversary and the next they're your ally.

[Bison44]

3500 names???  I think he missed it by that much!!

 

[Joe MacCarthy]

5 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

3500 names???  I think he missed it by that much!!

I dunno, I heard it the other night and Rudi confirmed he heard it previously (3000-3500)

One thing I can tell you, a hundred years ago when I was in charge of the o'l MOACA, I kept a list of all the players who were on the list and had trials with clubs in Europe and were subsequently dropped from the MOACA. 

Let me tell you, this was many years ago, but that list had a helluva lot of names on it.  I used to think a future CPL would be a great spot for those guys who for whatever reason didn't make it in Europe, and there were some pretty big club names involved with some of them. 

There's probably a million (sic) guys we never even heard of having trials.  And I am quite sure we are producing more quality players getting trials than 20 years ago, I would think Mr Davies has also helped with drawing attention to the cause.

If they have a good handle on that and I assume that includes duals as well, it's a pretty good achievement

Edited September 7, 2021 by Joe MacCarthy

[SthMelbRed]

So, is John Herdman banging @SpecialK's wife, @narduch's wife, or both?

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

So, is John Herdman banging @SpecialK's wife, @narduch's wife, or both?

Maybe my sister 

[SpecialK]

5 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

So, is John Herdman banging @SpecialK's wife, @narduch's wife, or both?

My wife is pretty tall, he would need a step ladder for sure 

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, SpecialK said:

I dislike Herdman, but he has done a good job lately. For me if we don’t qualify he should be fired simple as that. If we qualify he keeps his job until World Cup. After World Cup 2022. Right away him and the CSA to have build a true youth program and scout like crazy. That 2026 team needs to be crazy good, even better then the team that we have now. If those youth teams don’t produce from 2020 to 2024 he should be gone. Herdman has been given the keys to the castle so it all rests on his shoulders. 

Nothing personal, but that is a ridiculously silly standard to hold him to.  Getting to the World Cup would be massive - not the bare minimum that he should be expected to do.  And then, even after hypothetically getting us to the WC for the first time in almost 40 years, you think he just has to rebuild the entire program and produce some world-beating talent to significantly improve on the squad that got us to Qatar.  

First off, the Canadian soccer financial situation won’t be so significantly different then than it is now - even with a WC appearance and hosting a few games in 2026.  Second, the team that plays in 2026 will look a whole lot like the one we see now.  We may see a few quality additions but a number of key players will likely still be there.  Davies, David, Eustaquio, Buchanan, Johnston, Kennedy - I suspect they will all be part of that core.  And the addittions may be guys we are already tracking (and who, by all accounts, Herdman is trying to recruit) - Dias, Jebbison, Flores, Ferdi, etc.   These aren’t new diamonds than need to be discovered (or somehow developed in the next 4 or 5 years).  

We get it - you don’t like Herdman.  But there is no value in being insulting and pretending that he should be held to some unattainable standard (that we would never hold another coach to).  

[frmr]

I don't think qualifying or not is black or white. If we completely imploded from here on out and finished last of the group, yeah I could see him being fired because that would be unacceptable. If we narrowly miss out on qualification or lose out in the intercontinental playoff there's no way he would or should be let go. That would be the definition of a knee-jerk reaction.

Also, the above post is an example of why I'm less than cordial to people who have these "Herdman out" hot takes. While I might not be as level headed and eloquent on the subject as dyslexic nam, the point remains the same. There's not a shred of pragmatism to these opinions, there's no logic and there's little to no intelligence or basis in reality. So there ya go, if you offer up a stupid take, you'll get an appropriate response. Not that I'm saying SpecialK's post was stupid as I said while I disagreed it at least had some substance to it, unlike some posts in this thread. If you don't think Herdman should be manager of this program, then back that up with some real-world reasons why and offer up a better option so we can all actually consider your proposal. Otherwise, as the great philosopher James Vardy once said: chat shit get banged.

Okay I'm done now.

[N1ckbr0wn]

I haven’t read through what I’ve missed in this thread, but I am going to say this:

I find it hilarious that the fans/media of a top 10 FIFA nation are crying out that the USMNT was severely out coached on Sunday, yet here we are still trying to set (unrealistic) tolerances on when to pull the trigger on the firing of Herdman. Can we please for the love of god just put this to rest a bit and accept the fact that he’s done a pretty fuckin decent job so far? This is starting to get a little cringe from some of you.

I’m willing to bet the same lot of guys consistently hating on Herdman would have praised the CSA for hiring Berhalter himself years ago, and look where that would’ve got us, eh??

[_Vic_]

Between his legacy and influence with the WNT and his time with the MNT, he has been a huge part of the best month of Canadian soccer against the USA ever.

One-tenth the size, probably less in program money and snow for a large part of the year in most places.

Our women not only put the Americans out of contention, they topped the world and taught us anything is possible.

What a great time to be alive.

[kacbru]

I wasn't a fan of the way Herdman was hired, but let's try and avoid the shifting goal posts of "success".  Two years ago, the minimum was to make it to the final round of qualifying.  He's done that and more.  There is no rational argument for firing him for not making it to the WC.  Two years ago, we would have been happy just to be here.  Now look at the team - pissed off and disappointed that we didn't steal 3 points in the US.  Sounds like a successful coaching job to me.

[nolbertos]

10 minutes ago, kacbru said:

I wasn't a fan of the way Herdman was hired, but let's try and avoid the shifting goal posts of "success".  Two years ago, the minimum was to make it to the final round of qualifying.  He's done that and more.  There is no rational argument for firing him for not making it to the WC.  Two years ago, we would have been happy just to be here.  Now look at the team - pissed off and disappointed that we didn't steal 3 points in the US.  Sounds like a successful coaching job to me.

When Herdman was hired the bare minimum to me is like every other coach we’ve had and make it to the WC.  Herdman had it easier to make the final round due to Mont Vic expanding the Hex to the Ocho and Canada not facing tough competition till thr final round.  So here we are and he’s not convincing anyone he’s up to the task yet.  He can motivate all he wants and be a great speaker but final round results are what’s he judged on.  Look at Berhalter.  Just becausr he’s won a Gold Cup and Nations Cup, rhe US and fans should give him some  slack?? No, its because the World Cup qualification is what all national team coaches are judged for.  Why should we settle for bare minimum on coaches?? We’re going to host the World Cup in 2026, I expect we get a proven coach then, not a coach who’s never been but is inspirational.  Inspiration doesn’t qualify to World Cups, ifs results, determinations, goals, tactics, odd away wins, etc

[Joe MacCarthy]

[narduch]

One valid criticism this window is the fact we only called in 23 players. 

Now we have a number of players out with injuries and may end up being short handed tomorrow at some positions.

[Joe MacCarthy]

We have several players who still haven't played a minute.  Why would we want more players, hanging around, pissed off they won't be playing and taking time from their clubs.  We get desperate up top Tesho is a phone call away.

You would think Herdman and staff hadn't any reason at all for calling 23 players, the best way to have a tight group is to not have malcontents hanging around.  If you're not playing, any player worth his salt isn't happy, thinking he should be in there contributing.  See Canada/USSR 1972 Retrospective

Edited September 9, 2021 by Joe MacCarthy

[frmr]

24 minutes ago, nolbertos said:

When Herdman was hired the bare minimum to me is like every other coach we’ve had and make it to the WC.  Herdman had it easier to make the final round due to Mont Vic expanding the Hex to the Ocho and Canada not facing tough competition till thr final round.  So here we are and he’s not convincing anyone he’s up to the task yet.  He can motivate all he wants and be a great speaker but final round results are what’s he judged on.  Look at Berhalter.  Just becausr he’s won a Gold Cup and Nations Cup, rhe US and fans should give him some  slack?? No, its because the World Cup qualification is what all national team coaches are judged for.  Why should we settle for bare minimum on coaches?? We’re going to host the World Cup in 2026, I expect we get a proven coach then, not a coach who’s never been but is inspirational.  Inspiration doesn’t qualify to World Cups, ifs results, determinations, goals, tactics, odd away wins, etc

what

[narduch]

Just now, Joe MacCarthy said:

We have several players who still haven't played a minute.  Why would we want more players, hanging around, pissed off they won't be playing and taking time from their clubs.  We get desperate up top Tesho is a phone call away.

You would think Herdman hadn't any reason at all fro calling 23 players, the best way to have a tight group is to not have malcontents hanging around.  If you're not playing. any player worth his salt isn't happy, thinking he should be in their contributing.  See Canada/USSR 1972 Retrospective

This is a lame excuse. 

The 3 match in 6 days window is begging for extra players to be called in. They are adults and professionals.  

How many of the remaining options are attackers? Only Cavallini who we aren't even sure is ready.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Just now, narduch said:

This is a lame excuse. 

The 3 match in 6 days window is begging for extra players to be called in. They are adults and professionals.  

How many of the remaining options are attackers? Only Cavallini who we aren't even sure is ready.

I said earlier I try to take each post on its own merits but with your anti Herdman agenda you don't make it easy.  Almost everybody else has moved on and yet you continue with what seems to be another veiled shot.  I assume that big staff he has also had a part in the decision and had a reason whether your experience and expertise thinks it's lame or not.

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

I said earlier I try to take each post on its own merits but with your anti Herdman agenda you don't make it easy.  Almost everybody else has moved on and yet you continue with what seems to be another veiled shot.  I assume that big staff he has also had a part in the decision and had a reason whether your experience and expertise thinks it's lame or not.

I don't have an agenda. Just commenting that I wished we had taken more than 23 players. Just like all our other Octagonal opponents had done.

Basically you are trying so hard to defend Herdman at all costs that you can't even accept when the criticisms are valid. That's on you.

If anyone has an agenda its you. You seem to want to defend Herdman at all costs. And it makes you blind because of it.

[kacbru]

24 minutes ago, narduch said:

One valid criticism this window is the fact we only called in 23 players. 

Now we have a number of players out with injuries and may end up being short handed tomorrow at some positions.

Yes, I agree with this.  Actually only called 22 healthy players.  There may be a good reason for doing so.  But if there is, we haven't heard it.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Just now, narduch said:

I don't have an agenda. Just commenting that I wished we had taken more than 23 players. Just like all our other Octagonal opponents had done.

Basically you are trying so hard to defend Herdman at all costs that you can't even accept when the criticisms are valid. That's on you.

If anyone has an agenda its you. You seem to want to defend Herdman at all costs. And it makes you blind because of it.

No I'm perfectly happy to hear valid criticism against him.  I thought what you said had some merit but as I said coming from you it's hard to take as genuine. If you know me like you say you do you should know that I have always defended people (the CSA are people too) against irrational and lame criticism by people who just wanna bitch.  I see no positive in it and have no time for it.  Others here have conceded what he has done well, you won't just on principle.

[Joe MacCarthy]

4 minutes ago, kacbru said:

There may be a good reason for doing so.  But if there is, we haven't heard it.

That's right and it's been that way here for as long as I can remember.  Just because we don't know something doesn't mean there wasn't something going on.

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

No I'm perfectly happy to hear valid criticism against him.  I thought what you said had some merit but as I said coming from you it's hard to take as genuine. If you know me like you say you do you should know that I have always defended people (the CSA are people too) against irrational and lame criticism by people who just wanna bitch.  I see no positive in it and have no time for it.  Others here have conceded what he has done well, you won't just on principle.

So basically you know you are wrong and I made a valid point. But you don't want to admit it. Got it.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Just now, narduch said:

So basically you know you are wrong and I made a valid point. But you don't want to admit it. Got it.

Ok, whatever you say.  One last word, considering some of the angry posts you made above, are you still pissed off at me because I roasted you in the Argos @ BMO thread.  If so, it's time to let it go, bro.