Herdman new head coach

[Floortom]

3 minutes ago, gator said:

Our possession stats would have inflated greatly after they scored and just sat everyone behind the ball for large chunks of time while we ineffectively passed the ball around in the space they allowed us, I wondered if we would ever break them down or would they just see the match out!

Very similar to the US Gold Cup match where , IMO, we massively overrated the possession stats since we were chasing a goal and the US was content to sit back. We just haven’t consistently shown that quality in the final third regardless of possession stats 

[Kent]

6 minutes ago, gator said:

Our possession stats would have inflated greatly after they scored and just sat everyone behind the ball for large chunks of time while we ineffectively passed the ball around in the space they allowed us, I wondered if we would ever break them down or would they just see the match out!

Sure, but I mean, what was the solution we needed last night? During the game I was thinking get another central midfielder on there to control the game more. To be fair I was thinking that before Honduras scored, so maybe a very early change could have helped prevent the goal against us, but the rest of the way if we were dominating possession more than I thought, maybe Osorio or Kaye isn't more likely to help us get a goal than Laryea drawing a penalty for us.

I say this realizing there have probably been a million solutions proposed in the game thread, but I'm not going to be able to catch up on that one.

[narduch]

42 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

It's almost like he doesn't understand that all of the other games he's coached with the Men were not dress rehearsals for WCQ, and the game, the pressure, the tactics, the expectations, the opposition are all different and that was new to him last night.

The fact we only called 23 players should be a red herring too

 

[gator]

With 2 most likely road losses at Mexico and Jamaica next window last night's dropped points really hurt, ES will not be a push over even at home, the pressure is huge on Herdman to get things right immediately, no more of this BS about "good losses" because we showed character, it time for everyone to step up!

[Floortom]

3 minutes ago, gator said:

With 2 most likely road losses at Mexico and Jamaica next window last night's dropped points really hurt, ES will not be a push over even at home, the pressure is huge on Herdman to get things right immediately, no more of this BS about "good losses" because we showed character, it time for everyone to step up!

Mexico was always a huge long shot but we can get a result in Jamaica. It’s easier to play there against any other octagonal opponent. 
Also wouldn’t be surprised if Jamaica is still screwed over with the Red List implications.

[narduch]

The Jamaica B team did ok against Mexico for the portions I saw.

Why can't we draw them in Mexico too?

[Cheeta]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

Teams like El Salvador and Panama won't be pushovers.

I think its fair to criticize Herdman for last night. Calling people stupid for doing that is stupid.

I am sort of tired with how much he is still learning on the job.

That said, quite rightly, not the Gaffer's best night, I'm looking more at the on field members of this team for last night's disappointment.

Because it was a disappointment, Honduras did quite well but that match was there for the taking.  An off night for too many players.  Passing was poor too often, very poor anticipation of each other.   Think missing the Gold Cup hurt the cohesion amongst other things.

[dyslexic nam]

6 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

Think missing the Gold Cup hurt the cohesion amongst other things.

The GC was the perfect chance to have this team - our best team - come together and completely gel.   Instead, we mixed our best team with our second team (recognizing there were injuries) and I am sure this contributed to the lack of fluidity last night.  

[gator]

31 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Mexico was always a huge long shot but we can get a result in Jamaica. It’s easier to play there against any other octagonal opponent. 
Also wouldn’t be surprised if Jamaica is still screwed over with the Red List implications.

We have never won there!

[dyslexic nam]

Just now, gator said:

We have never won there!

I honestly think this is the cycle where we update that table.  We will get away wins.  Book it. 

[Approve My Account Pls]

People need to get off Herdman's back in my opinion until we have a larger sample size against good opposition. We've all been begging to see Tajon and Davies on the wings, it didn't work. Maybe that's because we took power out of the centre of the park with Laryea being on, maybe it's even a lot due to Hutchison's poor start to the match. But how could we know that would happen til we tried it? We all were making lineups trying to include all the weapons and saying otherwise now is just revisionist history. We really cannot fault him for trying it IMO

The one major negative I will give him was swapping wings for 25 mins in the 1st half was a terrible idea. Otherwise, I don't think he did anything that wild and that poor that deserves this level of criticism we're seeing.  Let's see how he handles the next two. As long as we get the win against ES and are competitive with the US, no reason to push the panic button yet

Lastly regarding the calling 23 players, I think there's an element that he's banking on a few things. One, that if needed we're in North America and can quickly call upon local guys. Two, allowing some of our young guys with recent transfers (Corbeanu, Millar) time to gel with their new rosters and earn playing might benefit us in future windows if they're starting regularly and in good form as opposed to still struggling for playing time with both us and their clubs. Is it a risk? Yes. Is it the end of the world? No. If we're to make it to Qatar, it's on the backs of players 1-20 in this squad, not through depth options 21-30. 

[costarg]

2 hours ago, narduch said:

I am sort of tired with how much he is still learning on the job.

Do you know one coach that doesn't make mistakes even after winning it all and isn't still learning every match?  Give me one, come on, I dare you.  

 

[narduch]

15 minutes ago, costarg said:

Do you know one coach that doesn't make mistakes even after winning it all and isn't still learning every match?  Give me one, come on, I dare you.  

 

He makes these mistakes a lot.

And this board always just brushes it off.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I was very frustrated last night and I do acknowledge that the coaching staff needs to take much of the blame. This is blasphemous but I did feel like Hutch didn't fit and Tajon should have been coming off the bench.

That said, we should look at the window as a whole and see what they can accomplish. My entire football watching life tells me that Honduras is one stinky banana peel. We are always close with the US. I think there's still a chance for the 7 we all dreamt about, and take 5 as a building block.

No matter what, we are all in new territory here, Herdman included. Last night does not diminish the committed, exiting squad he's assembled here. Even in a very disjointed performance, they scared the shit out of Honduras at times. You think Honduras is looking forward to seeing Davies at their ground? No chance.

Honestly, I'd sort of resigned never seeing Canada qualify for a World Cup. I always just wanted these hex/Ocho matches to see what we can do. Now we're all swinging our dicks around like we are the odds on favourite for 3rd. Davies is 20 years old. He's going to lead us into a World Cup entering his prime at 25. That draw is part of the process. We got sit by agonize, evaluate, criticize for sure. But I'm also going to savour this, as I imagine a winemaker does watching their grapes grow on the vine.

[ag futbol]

40 minutes ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

People need to get off Herdman's back in my opinion until we have a larger sample size against good opposition. We've all been begging to see Tajon and Davies on the wings, it didn't work. Maybe that's because we took power out of the centre of the park with Laryea being on, maybe it's even a lot due to Hutchison's poor start to the match. But how could we know that would happen til we tried it? We all were making lineups trying to include all the weapons and saying otherwise now is just revisionist history. We really cannot fault him for trying it IMO

The one major negative I will give him was swapping wings for 25 mins in the 1st half was a terrible idea. Otherwise, I don't think he did anything that wild and that poor that deserves this level of criticism we're seeing.  Let's see how he handles the next two. As long as we get the win against ES and are competitive with the US, no reason to push the panic button yet

Lastly regarding the calling 23 players, I think there's an element that he's banking on a few things. One, that if needed we're in North America and can quickly call upon local guys. Two, allowing some of our young guys with recent transfers (Corbeanu, Millar) time to gel with their new rosters and earn playing might benefit us in future windows if they're starting regularly and in good form as opposed to still struggling for playing time with both us and their clubs. Is it a risk? Yes. Is it the end of the world? No. If we're to make it to Qatar, it's on the backs of players 1-20 in this squad, not through depth options 21-30. 

Fielding too many wingers + forwards requiring service and relying on just two deep lying midfielders was just silly. 

We need some semblance of a strategy (and the proper lineup) to play between the lines and utilize the centre of the park on occasion to balance the attack. 

The team defaults to cycling the ball to the wing and counting on Davies talent to beat the other team for pace. We have to be more dynamic than this.

The team is capable and I have seen Herdman tactically field sensible lineups / formations. We just have to get away from what we saw last night and the away game against the US, which is overconfidence manifesting itself in a non-sensical lineup choice consisting of a lot of attack minded players who don’t even fit together.

 

[top cheese]

I have to say that I was extremely disappointed with the tactical plan in the first half of the game. It disjointed the team and effectively cost them the extra two points.
 

the team as been successful playing a 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 with players playing roles that they are best suited for. 
 

randomly playing a 4-4-2 with Davies and buchannon inverted was just plain dumb IMO. Your at home first match go out and try to win the game and play to your strengths

[top cheese]

Also not bringing someone like osorio or Wotherspoon into the game was wrong. Kennedy needs to be a starter

[archer21]

IMO, calling for Herdman’s head is clearly overreacting but it certainly wasn’t his best performance. To be totally honest, I’m still not entirely sure what formation we were playing. It was mentioned that Laryea was playing in midfield while in possession, almost like a 10. But then also playing LB defensively? How can you expect someone to do that effectively? It created some awkward situations for Davies/Buchanan who did not look comfortable or confident in knowing who to defend.

I’ve also noticed for a while now that even though Davies is generally very good defending 1v1, he can fall asleep defensively when the man he is marking does not have the ball. This same thing happened to Tajon in the lead up to the goal. When his man passed the ball and ran in behind, he didn’t track the run quickly enough and then was chasing from behind and panicking. I haven’t seen enough of Tajon to know if this is common or not, but we need everyone to stay switched on and defend off the ball better.

[sose]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I honestly think this is the cycle where we update that table.  We will get away wins.  Book it. 

Jamaica has their big guns (UK based players) for the home matches.  They will be very very tough at home or on the raod

[sose]

When Herdman put Davies on the right and Tajon on the left he killed the game for that spell of 20-30mins..   He definately overthought this one.

[top cheese]

11 minutes ago, archer21 said:

IMO, calling for Herdman’s head is clearly overreacting but it certainly wasn’t his best performance. To be totally honest, I’m still not entirely sure what formation we were playing. It was mentioned that Laryea was playing in midfield while in possession, almost like a 10. But then also playing LB defensively? How can you expect someone to do that effectively? It created some awkward situations for Davies/Buchanan who did not look comfortable or confident in knowing who to defend.

I’ve also noticed for a while now that even though Davies is generally very good defending 1v1, he can fall asleep defensively when the man he is marking does not have the ball. This same thing happened to Tajon in the lead up to the goal. When his man passed the ball and ran in behind, he didn’t track the run quickly enough and then was chasing from behind and panicking. I haven’t seen enough of Tajon to know if this is common or not, but we need everyone to stay switched on and defend off the ball better.

I think tajon was isolated and he was touch tight on his mark then had to turn on his weaker side. You could tell before the ball was played through that he was in a bad spot

[narduch]

34 minutes ago, sose said:

Jamaica has their big guns (UK based players) for the home matches.  They will be very very tough at home or on the raod

Jamaica may get put on the UK red list by then.

[gator]

37 minutes ago, sose said:

When Herdman put Davies on the right and Tajon on the left he killed the game for that spell of 20-30mins..   He definately overthought this one.

I understand sometimes coaches like to flip wingers to give the defender a little different challenge but Davies was giving their RB lots of problems and I thought it was a matter of time until he burned him, also when was the last time Davies played RB, maybe with the Caps?

[sose]

6 minutes ago, gator said:

I understand sometimes coaches like to flip wingers to give the defender a little different challenge but Davies was giving their RB lots of problems and I thought it was a matter of time until he burned him, also when was the last time Davies played RB, maybe with the Caps?

Agree... Davies had a bright start and it looked as it was just a matter of time before something came from his side in the first half.  It's not as if he was being shut down by the RB and then had to switch to the right side to get into the game. 

[_Vic_]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

The fact we only called 23 players should be a red herring too

Small can be quite an advantage. It depends on how you run your team. Team size is like fire, it can cook your steak or burn your house down. There is a lot written about Nuno Santo and his 16 player squad at Wolves (plus three GK).