Herdman new head coach

[shermanator]

Herdman has the national team fucking with their cocks, that's for sure.

[BearcatSA]

3 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Herdman has the national team fucking with their cocks, that's for sure.

We've come a long ways from playing four centre backs while searching for a winning goal to qualify out of the group stage playing at home in BMO like Floro did six years ago.  

[LeoH037]

I've always been a fan of Herdman since his time with the CWNT and have unapologetically defended him on this website. That said, whatever lingering doubts I might have had, those were completely erased with how to team performed against Mexico. That performance was a watershed moment, it will give the players something to rally on going forward, they played on even term with the giants of CONCACAF, and gave as good as they took.

 Its obvious that when he took over the program he was still just learning the men's game and what CONCACAF was like from that side, but yesterday, during that second half, he was able to adapt to the game, changed the team's tactical approach, and outcoached Martino for long stretches (you can see that Martino himself embraced Herdman after the game, and appeared to have genuinely congratulated him for how Canada performed, his body language vastly different from the first time they faced off, as if there was a new found respect).

Herdman is a student of the game, and oh boy has he been learning. He is 100% the man for job, zero doubt, and if anyone is going to get us into a world cup, and be able to compete, it's him. The players believe in him and will run through brick walls for him, now its time we start to believe in him too. We talk about player development, but we have to keep in mind that great coaches had to start somewhere too, and Herdman is so far proving to be a great coach. I am also not worried about any other football association trying to snatch him up, Herdman seems fully committed in taking the CMNT to a world cup, and competing at home.. and lets be real, he likely wants the accolade of coaching both a Women's and Men's team that hosted a world cup for the same country, so yeah, he ain't going anywhere.

[Floortom]

I’m coming around to the idea that I was totally wrong on Herdman. I hated the announcement at the time - I thought we needed a proven international men’s coach. Thought the Herdman announcement was a bit of a joke.

tactically he’s proven more creative than I thought he would be. But more importantly it seems he has instilled a resilient mentality in this squad that’s done wonders for their confidence and belief.

ultimately the proof will be in the Octagonal.

[Gian-Luca]

15 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

We've come a long ways from playing four centre backs while searching for a winning goal to qualify out of the group stage playing at home in BMO like Floro did six years ago.  

A winning goal? How about any goal? That was the tourney where we didn’t score a goal the entire tourney. I think we are top scorers so far in this one. Amazing to think that was just six years ago

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

A winning goal? How about any goal? That was the tourney where we didn’t score a goal the entire tourney. I think we are top scorers so far in this one. Amazing to think that was just six years ago

LOL!  I forgot that.  I remember this board pining for the inclusion of the attacking talents of Russell Teibert to be on the field.  Osorio, not a Floro fav, had not yet matured into understanding his role. 

Six years ago. 

Wow.

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

A winning goal? How about any goal? That was the tourney where we didn’t score a goal the entire tourney. I think we are top scorers so far in this one. Amazing to think that was just six years ago

That was the 2nd straight tournament we didn’t score any goals.

Under Herdman we have 25 goals in 9 Gold Cup matches. In our previous 14 matches we had 8 goals (with 4 against French Guiana). This included a stretch where we didn’t score a goal from open play for 10 games!! 

[LeoH037]

7 hours ago, Floortom said:

tactically he’s proven more creative than I thought he would be. But more importantly it seems he has instilled a resilient mentality in this squad that’s done wonders for their confidence and belief.

He's improved, and his development as a coach is clear. He's certainly a better coach now than he was 3 years ago.

[red card]

11 hours ago, LeoH037 said:

I've always been a fan of Herdman since his time with the CWNT and have unapologetically defended him on this website. That said, whatever lingering doubts I might have had, those were completely erased with how to team performed against Mexico. That performance was a watershed moment, it will give the players something to rally on going forward, they played on even term with the giants of CONCACAF, and gave as good as they took.

 Its obvious that when he took over the program he was still just learning the men's game and what CONCACAF was like from that side, but yesterday, during that second half, he was able to adapt to the game, changed the team's tactical approach, and outcoached Martino for long stretches (you can see that Martino himself embraced Herdman after the game, and appeared to have genuinely congratulated him for how Canada performed, his body language vastly different from the first time they faced off, as if there was a new found respect).

Herdman is a student of the game, and oh boy has he been learning. He is 100% the man for job, zero doubt, and if anyone is going to get us into a world cup, and be able to compete, it's him. The players believe in him and will run through brick walls for him, now its time we start to believe in him too. We talk about player development, but we have to keep in mind that great coaches had to start somewhere too, and Herdman is so far proving to be a great coach. I am also not worried about any other football association trying to snatch him up, Herdman seems fully committed in taking the CMNT to a world cup, and competing at home.. and lets be real, he likely wants the accolade of coaching both a Women's and Men's team that hosted a world cup for the same country, so yeah, he ain't going anywhere.

I'm in the same boat. Since I followed the women's team, the only thing he needed to get up to speed on was Concacaf shithousery. But many of his key strengths were what turned off many when he was hired for the men's team.

His emotional IQ is off the charts. He rebuild the mentality of a scarred women's team from being crushed at the 2011 World Cup. I know non-soccer people who still rave about him after seeing him speak at corporate events. His women players still speak in glowing terms on how he changed their mindset about the sport, country and personal life.

He has CEO level qualities. He created the development pathway for women from scratch. He knew to surround himself with people from various subject matter expertise. He knew how to unlock resources from CSA's budget/org structure for the women while similar resources weren't used by the men.

On the pitch, the women's team has dried up offensively since he left. The last young promising talent is still the one Herdman bought in (Huitema).

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by red card

[An Observer]

3 hours ago, red card said:

I'm in the same boat. Since I followed the women's team, the only thing he needed to get up to speed on was Concacaf shithousery. But many of his key strengths were what turned off many when he was hired for the men's team.

His emotional IQ is off the charts. He rebuild the mentality of a scarred women's team from being crushed at the 2011 World Cup. I know non-soccer people who still rave about him after seeing him speak at corporate events. His women players still speak in glowing terms on how he changed their mindset about the sport, country and personal life.

He has CEO level qualities. He created the development pathway for women from scratch. He knew to surround himself with people from various subject matter expertise. He knew how to unlock resources from CSA's budget/org structure for the women while similar resources weren't used by the men.

On the pitch, the women's team has dried up offensively since he left. The last young promising talent is still the one Herdman bought in (Huitema).

 

I agree with all that. I was in the camp of give the guy a chance when he was hired.  I could see the positives but was still a little perplexed at the time of Zambrano firing as had liked what I saw up to that point (but now think he was a complete train wreck the CSA was smart to extract itself from) and to be frank, I was very concerned about whether he could make the transition from the women’s game to the men’s (some of that I wasn’t sure at the time was just latent sexism on my part - even though I follow the women’s team - or the fact it’s really two different games). There was a big part of me that was just curious how he would do going from one to the other but scared a little as well because we would be experimenting with a team containing guys like Davies and David. Which was my last point, would the players accept him from the women’s game?

He definitely seems to have brought the players together and built that team spirit and buy in more than anyone I think we have had since possibly Tony Waiters. He has also progressed and learned from his mistakes against Haiti in 19 and the second match against the US in 19 as well. 

I think his strength is his ability to build a team around him, listen to them and take their advice.  I agree that he has great emotional IQ. I know this maybe controversial but I think what I have seen exhibited by most of those on this board who criticise him is very low emotional IQ’s themselves. I dare say they don’t even recognise it or the fact their own is very low.  They tend to be the “my way or the highway crowd” who believe that admitting a mistake is a weakness rather than a strength. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by An Observer

[An Observer]

1 minute ago, An Observer said:

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by An Observer
Deleted - double post

[VinceA]

7 hours ago, red card said:

I'm in the same boat. Since I followed the women's team, the only thing he needed to get up to speed on was Concacaf shithousery. But many of his key strengths were what turned off many when he was hired for the men's team.

His emotional IQ is off the charts. He rebuild the mentality of a scarred women's team from being crushed at the 2011 World Cup. I know non-soccer people who still rave about him after seeing him speak at corporate events. His women players still speak in glowing terms on how he changed their mindset about the sport, country and personal life.

He has CEO level qualities. He created the development pathway for women from scratch. He knew to surround himself with people from various subject matter expertise. He knew how to unlock resources from CSA's budget/org structure for the women while similar resources weren't used by the men.

On the pitch, the women's team has dried up offensively since he left. The last young promising talent is still the one Herdman bought in (Huitema).

 

Will say that the pathway he built was good at the time but it can be argued that REX and such are beginning to hinder the women as many good players are being overlooked and this is getting more and more frequent.

[LeoH037]

 

Good stuff

Edited August 2, 2021 by LeoH037

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

The women’s result from today clearly shows that Herdman was only holding them back. Clearly not the standard we need.  

[rkomar]

I was blown away by him wanting success in qualifying for the World Cup partly to bring more money to the CSA, which can then be shared with the women.  He is still worrying about funding for the women's program.

[LeoH037]

15 minutes ago, rkomar said:

I was blown away by him wanting success in qualifying for the World Cup partly to bring more money to the CSA, which can then be shared with the women.  He is still worrying about funding for the women's program.

I think he's just realistic, success in the women's game will not be enough to raise the profile of the game in Canada, at least from a financial standpoint. As it stands, the vast majority of the $$$ is in the men's game.

[Cheeta]

4 hours ago, LeoH037 said:

 

Good stuff

100%.

Should be required viewing, and it's all down to the ladies.  Great collaboration.

Had a few so just gonna say I call bullshit on Herdman's hard done by feelings around some of the critisms around his hiring. 

Otherwise, a great watch.  Do it!

[TOcanadafan]

On 8/2/2021 at 6:39 PM, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

The women’s result from today clearly shows that Herdman was only holding them back. Clearly not the standard we need.  

I don’t think their Olympic success equates to “Herdman was holding them back”.  Teams most often experience positive gains after a coaching switch- the new voice equates to a new focus, a refresh.  Perhaps Priestman has done a better job of organizing their defense.  She might, in fact, be a better coach than Herdman, but to crap on Herdman because he could only get them bronze, while this time they get a gold or silver is ridiculous.  I’m not sure anyone could say that Canada’s attacking play has improved at all.  Let’s face it, the lack of competition is one of the main reasons why Canada gets good results at the Olympics vs World Cups.  Heiner-Moller came in with a great CV and didn’t get Canada past the round of 16.  Herdman’ s recruiting record of dual nationals speaks for itself, and the Gold Cup run was impressive (and as was noted a few posts earlier, he seems to have a great ability to surround himself with good people) - curious where you think someone else would have done a better job at this point?
 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 minute ago, TOcanadafan said:

I don’t think their Olympic success equates to “Herdman was holding them back”.  Teams most often experience positive gains after a coaching switch- the new voice equates to a new focus, a refresh.  Perhaps Priestman has done a better job of organizing their defense.  She might, in fact, be a better coach than Herdman, but to crap on Herdman because he could only get them bronze, while this time they get a gold or silver is ridiculous.  I’m not sure anyone could say that Canada’s attacking play has improved at all.  Let’s face it, the lack of competition is one of the main reasons why Canada gets good results at the Olympics vs World Cups.  Heiner-Moller came in with a great CV and didn’t get Canada past the round of 16.  Herdman’ s recruiting record of dual nationals speaks for itself, and the Gold Cup run was impressive (and as was noted a few posts earlier, he seems to have a great ability to surround himself with good people) - curious where you think someone else would have done a better job at this point?

I think he was being ironic. 

I much prefer irony that does not signal itself as such. If you miss it, that is your problem. 

In any case, I agree with @Cheeta, him pulling out the sexism card when folks criticized his lack of experience in the men's game. He did not have any club experience either, he was very green.

But I will accept that the men and women can inspire each other to excellence, especially if the men drop the sexist barriers and take a gutsy performance from the women as a model. I know, from having contact with people in rowing in Victoria, that the women's 8 winning in rowing will serve as a model for Canada's male rowers. It happens in other sports, where mind you the breach in salary and international fame is not as wide as in football.

 

 

[TOcanadafan]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think he was being ironic. 

I much prefer irony that does not signal itself as such. If you miss it, that is your problem. 

Thank you so much for pointing that out… it was bothering me all day that someone had degraded Herdman.  Thankfully there’s someone as brilliant as you on this board to let me know I have a problem.  Now I can seek help with learning how to better identify irony.  I’ll be forever grateful that you changed the direction of my life.

[LeoH037]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think he was being ironic. 

I much prefer irony that does not signal itself as such. If you miss it, that is your problem. 

In any case, I agree with @Cheeta, him pulling out the sexism card when folks criticized his lack of experience in the men's game. He did not have any club experience either, he was very green.

But I will accept that the men and women can inspire each other to excellence, especially if the men drop the sexist barriers and take a gutsy performance from the women as a model. I know, from having contact with people in rowing in Victoria, that the women's 8 winning in rowing will serve as a model for Canada's male rowers. It happens in other sports, where mind you the breach in salary and international fame is not as wide as in football.

 

 

LOL.... you accuse him of "pulling out the sexism card" then the first thing you do is proceed to state he was "very green", completely dismissing the fact he had been coaching women's soccer teams since 2006? huh. I guess all that experience was not "real" experience  because it was coaching women? Bruh... seriously?... hopeless... Anyway It doesn't matter what you or any doubters think at this point, its all just noise, the only people who he needs to convince are the players, and he's done just that.

Edited August 4, 2021 by LeoH037

[PiedPilko]

9 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

LOL.... you accuse him of "pulling out the sexism card" then the first thing you do is proceed to state he was "very green", completely dismissing the fact he had been coaching women's soccer teams since 2006? huh. I guess all that experience was not "real" experience  because it was coaching women? Bruh... seriously?... hopeless... Anyway It doesn't matter what you or any doubters think at this point, its all just noise, the only people who he needs to convince are the players, and he's done just that.

What also struck me as odd was the complete discounting of international experience. I think there's something to be said for someone who knows how to manage a national pool, and that's something Floro and Zambrano hadn't done before.

 

Also, you don't see anyone bat an eye when newly retired players with zero coaching experience are immediately appointed as managers. 

[Obinna]

37 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

What also struck me as odd was the complete discounting of international experience. I think there's something to be said for someone who knows how to manage a national pool, and that's something Floro and Zambrano hadn't done before.

 

Also, you don't see anyone bat an eye when newly retired players with zero coaching experience are immediately appointed as managers. 

This is something I personally overlooked. Especially when it comes to building a team culture, that is very arguably more important than tactics at the international level.

And the tactics have been pretty decent so far under Herdman. Whether that's down to Herdman or Biello or DeVos or a collaboration between them, I really don't care. I am just happy to see us show tactically flexibility while also being able to find solutions (Johnston in the back 3 for instance). 

But yeah, more than the tactics it's the team culture that'll be Herdman's legacy. I'll never overlook the importance of being able to manage a national team pool again. 

[dyslexic nam]

40 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

Also, you don't see anyone bat an eye when newly retired players with zero coaching experience are immediately appointed as managers. 

Not wading into the whole sexism debate, but with respect to the quotes part, you absolutely do see questions raised if the player-turned-manager is appointed to a high profile position without first cutting their teeth on a lower tier job.  It isn’t universal opposition or anything, but there are certainly some that are skeptical of that kind of jump.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

Thank you so much for pointing that out… it was bothering me all day that someone had degraded Herdman.  Thankfully there’s someone as brilliant as you on this board to let me know I have a problem.  Now I can seek help with learning how to better identify irony.  I’ll be forever grateful that you changed the direction of my life.

I think, now that I re-read his post, that he wasn't being ironic at all and you were right to lay into him the way you did.