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Herdman new head coach


matty
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18 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Holger Osieck?

Yes, previously he was next closest. But I put Herdman ahead of Holger because he blew it on the pitch soon after the Gold Cup and the players rebelled against him for his management style. Now if Canada doesn't advance tomorrow, then they're both in the same boat.

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2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Speaking of wannabe coaches, I didn’t see Jason de Vos or Andrew Olivieri AKA the CSA Peter Griffin During this whole group round. Maybe the CSA finally did the right thing and send them both packing.

I must have missed that bit.

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8 hours ago, The Ref said:

Herdman has always been nothing more than just a street Preacher for me, hence I call him The Preacher.  If he was to take us to Qatar I will convert to his religion.

Yeah, I have the same fear, that he's more sizzle than steak, but proof'll be in the (meat) pudding. (Metaphor got away from me there.)  But, to be fair, he's damned organized, has indeed built a culture of brotherhood among the lads, and has shown some aptitude for tactics. Does this set him apart from other national team managers? Sure, here and there, but for the most part, not really. 

But yes, get us to Qatar and I'll join the Cult of the Sizzle.

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49 minutes ago, red card said:

Yes, previously he was next closest. But I put Herdman ahead of Holger because he blew it on the pitch soon after the Gold Cup and the players rebelled against him for his management style. Now if Canada doesn't advance tomorrow, then they're both in the same boat.

Holger actually won something and his record versus top nations is decent and he didn’t have any superstars. Holger is still way ahead of Herdman. 
Canada held Brazil to a 0-0 draw under Holger in 2001 confederation cup. 
 

yes he didn’t qualify for the World Cup with Canada and yes is demanding coaching style pissed off a lot of players. But he was very successful with Canada. Winning the gold cup in 2000, Draw vs Brazil, 3rd place in 2002 gold cup. With a final record of ( see pic) 0B3C65A1-E63B-4597-988A-EC0FFD0E8125.jpeg.f40a6ea6907fd1c6e023b96a1ab3b756.jpeg

Edited by SpecialK
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3 hours ago, red card said:

Yes, previously he was next closest. But I put Herdman ahead of Holger because he blew it on the pitch soon after the Gold Cup and the players rebelled against him for his management style. Now if Canada doesn't advance tomorrow, then they're both in the same boat.

Herdman over Holger?? Now I heard everything on here.  I was biting my tongue on posting here again, as I couldn’t believe people praising Herdman as if he’s won the Gold Cup for beating Haiti, Suriname, etc teams we should beat.  Just remember that the 5 Ocho members didn’t have to play a semi-final round like the last 3-4 WCQ cycles or else we would’ve been knocked out by now.  All its done is make it an easier path for us to make the Ocho thanks to Mont Vic.  If Herdman doesn’t win a Gold Cup or make a strong standing in thr Ocho, he should be let go or resign, but since this is Canada, where the CSA is cash strapped and rewards mediocrity, he’ll helm the 2026 WCQ campaign.  Sadly that’s our reality that we can’t hire any decent quality coach here.

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Maybe people forget how good Holger and his Canadian team was and tough competition they played. I just saw he record in detail and I was shocked. God I wish Canada could play teams like that. Come on CSA stop hiding Herdman in the CONCACAF closet. Herdman Ted talk lovers just look at this record ! When Herdman beats The Swiss, Mexico, South Korea, Columbia, Costa Rica and draws Brazil And wins a tournament and qualifies for the World Cup 2022 ( Holger never did ) I’ll praise Frodo Herdman and say he’s the best manager Canada has ever and if he doesn’t I’ll start a go fund me page for his ticket back to England. 

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Why doesn’t ONESoccer do a story about Holger, do a interview with him  and the draw vs Brazil and get Craig Forrest out there like they did with Hume. No no they gonna talk to Hart and 8-1 lose like it’s the only thing we have ever done. 

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1 minute ago, SpecialK said:

Why doesn’t ONESoccer do a story about Holger, do a interview with him  and the draw vs Brazil and get Craig Forrest out there like they did with Hume. No no they gonna talk to Hart and 8-1 lose like it’s the only thing we have ever done. 

They are building the mood.  This is the part of the movie where the grizzled Captain tells the new partner how the protagonist lost his old partner and never got over it until now, and with your help he can finally take down the Mendoza syndicate for good.  Its painful, its hard to watch its bad, lazy writing, but it will make the ending that much sweeter when you understand the ARC the protagonist had before the final triumph.  

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1 hour ago, nolbertos said:

Herdman over Holger?? Now I heard everything on here.  I was biting my tongue on posting here again, as I couldn’t believe people praising Herdman as if he’s won the Gold Cup for beating Haiti, Suriname, etc teams we should beat.  Just remember that the 5 Ocho members didn’t have to play a semi-final round like the last 3-4 WCQ cycles or else we would’ve been knocked out by now.  All its done is make it an easier path for us to make the Ocho thanks to Mont Vic.  If Herdman doesn’t win a Gold Cup or make a strong standing in thr Ocho, he should be let go or resign, but since this is Canada, where the CSA is cash strapped and rewards mediocrity, he’ll helm the 2026 WCQ campaign.  Sadly that’s our reality that we can’t hire any decent quality coach here.

Literally no one is praising him like he's won the Gold Cup, except maybe the person you're quoting if that's what you're taking from that managerial comparison. So I guess it would probably makes sense that you don't believe it's happening. Also, you're showing your cards with your next sentence saying we'd have been knocked out by now. You have no idea whether we would or we wouldn't, yet your brain instinctively goes to the negative. It's a prevailing mindset on this forum for many members. Like beaten dogs.

I know the average age on this forum is probably relatively high, and in fact forums as a web technology have a pretty high average age for users in general, but it will be nice to get the new wave of young Canada fans from the David/Davies generation who haven't had their brain wired by enduring decades of failure.

 

17 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Why doesn’t ONESoccer do a story about Holger, do a interview with him  and the draw vs Brazil and get Craig Forrest out there like they did with Hume. No no they gonna talk to Hart and 8-1 lose like it’s the only thing we have ever done. 

Do you also spend your time day dreaming about players of the past instead of enjoying and supporting the ones we have now? This forum is a fucking meme I swear to god.

But really, we're on the brink of exorcising a demon. In order to do that you have to face those demons. It's metaphorical, part of the build up and was a good (albeit obvious) decision from the OneSoccer producer. Also, we're supposed to be supporting THIS team and manager, not one from the past. The fact that this little bit of storytelling was lost on you while you're day dreaming about a past manager and team, well, I'm not surprised and I'm sure you weren't the only one.

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18 minutes ago, frmr said:

Literally no one is praising him like he's won the Gold Cup, except maybe the person you're quoting if that's what you're taking from that managerial comparison. So I guess it would probably makes sense that you don't believe it's happening. Also, you're showing your cards with your next sentence saying we'd have been knocked out by now. You have no idea whether we would or we wouldn't, yet your brain instinctively goes to the negative. It's a prevailing mindset on this forum for many members. Like beaten dogs.

I know the average age on this forum is probably relatively high, and in fact forums as a web technology have a pretty high average age for users in general, but it will be nice to get the new wave of young Canada fans from the David/Davies generation who haven't had their brain wired by enduring decades of failure.

 

Do you also spend your time day dreaming about players of the past instead of enjoying and supporting the ones we have now? This forum is a fucking meme I swear to god.

But really, we're on the brink of exorcising a demon. In order to do that you have to face those demons. It's metaphorical, part of the build up and was a good (albeit obvious) decision from the OneSoccer producer. Also, we're supposed to be supporting THIS team and manager, not one from the past. The fact that this little bit of storytelling was lost on you while you're day dreaming about a past manager and team, well, I'm not surprised and I'm sure you weren't the only one.

What are you talking about ? I talk about new and young players all the time! I want the csa to hire a real manager and start playing against the big boys ! Why because I believe we can shock the world and beat some big teams. But no the csa is cheap and they want to hide herdman from looking like a idiot out there. I believe in this group of players ! This group of player is the BEST we have ever seen in a Canadian jersey. I don’t believe in a manager who has done nothing Yet and that has won jack ! And yes two bronze medal are jack ! He talks new age but behide close doors he’s a Cold pushy sales man, who is not afraid to put a gun to someone’s head to get what he wants and the CSA are bunch of old university professors who know Jack about soccer and winning . They are only in it to look good in the media. 

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6 hours ago, red card said:

Yes, previously he was next closest. But I put Herdman ahead of Holger because he blew it on the pitch soon after the Gold Cup and the players rebelled against him for his management style. Now if Canada doesn't advance tomorrow, then they're both in the same boat.

We went something like 19 games undefeated under Holger. And won a trophy. 

Herdman is still in knickerbockers beside him. 

BTW, will he be coaching the GC team between breathing exercises? 

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Holger Osieck was able to coach a team containing players like Carl Fletcher, Richard Hastings and Carlo Corazzin to win a Gold Cup and hold their own against Brazil at a Confederations Cup the next year. No disrespect to players like that but I don't think they would be starting regularly if they were still in their prime and around right now. That roster spectacularly over-achieved. The present day roster need to get the job done on reaching the ocho and then qualify for Qatar to have done something reasonably comparable. Fingers crossed all goes well in the second leg and they have the opportunity to do so.

1 hour ago, SpecialK said:

...the CSA are bunch of old university professors who know Jack about soccer and winning...

Having played against Nick Bontis when he was still signing off as Nikos on internet forums in London, Ont soccer circles I can assure you he had the skill level and pace to have played professionally if his family had stayed in Greece. Think it would be extremely difficult to find somebody better qualified in terms of experience with soccer and business who would want to get involved with running the CSA.

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If Herdman does get us through into Octagonal stage by us beating Haiti tonight but we underachieve somehow in the Gold Cup, I still say his job would be safe either way due to the mere fact that if he gets us to the Octagonal. 

 

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From @SpecialK's post above, this made me do a double take...

image.png.d27a377e6132dd1b0f55608ca8e3e880.png

I figured out that this is the 2002 Gold Cup, and these games went to penalties (0-0 score against USA, 1-1 against Martinique) and transfermarkt is counting every goal from the shoot outs into the score :D

P.S. I could be considered a "Herdman apologist", but there is no way he has surpassed Osieck. To do that he needs to do at least one of qualifying for the World Cup, or winning the Gold Cup (probably also needing to make a good run in the Octagonal as well).

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I love Osiek but that 2-0 home defeat to T+T in WCQ still sticks in my mind like 8-1 Honduras.

I really only started to follow the MNT in 1999. The Gold Cup win was amazing. And the WCQ campaign was a major let down.

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Food for thought.... regardless if you’re like Mr.TED herdman who scored 4 speeches in one TED talk series  or you hate him. These group of players are Special and we have some young amazing talent are coming up. Love him or hate or both, the great thing is we are talking passionately about Canadian Soccer and our national team fan group is getting better. These are all GREAT things. 

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9 hours ago, nolbertos said:

Just remember that the 5 Ocho members didn’t have to play a semi-final round like the last 3-4 WCQ cycles or else we would’ve been knocked out by now. 

You probably should've kept biting your tongue.

7 hours ago, frmr said:

I know the average age on this forum is probably relatively high, and in fact forums as a web technology have a pretty high average age for users in general, but it will be nice to get the new wave of young Canada fans from the David/Davies generation who haven't had their brain wired by enduring decades of failure.

You've nailed it. This entire thread is the "old man yells at cloud" meme.

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7 hours ago, SpecialK said:

But no the csa is cheap and they want to hide herdman from looking like a idiot out there.

Can you explain this line of thinking in detail?

As in, can you enlighten the rest of us on why you seriously think the CSA would hire a manager just to "hide" him? The same manager that you constantly complain is in the media too often, no less.

I actually agree that Herdman hasn't earned much yet in this specific job, and should his team fail to secure advancement tonight that he should probably quit, but the level of irrational hate he gets from a few people on here just smacks of jealousy.

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I was one of those who really didn't like the Herdman appointment, but at this point you really have to be stubborn to disapprove of the job he's done. 

Obviously there is much left to do, but one has to be pleased up until this point. If we implode today, we can bring the pitchforks out again.

I really can't see that happening though. Just feels different this time, and that's partly down to the culture Herdman has built. I am fully backing him at this point. 

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13 minutes ago, RS said:

Can you explain this line of thinking in detail?

As in, can you enlighten the rest of us on why you seriously think the CSA would hire a manager just to "hide" him? The same manager that you constantly complain is in the media too often, no less.

I actually agree that Herdman hasn't earned much yet in this specific job, and should his team fail to secure advancement tonight that he should probably quit, but the level of irrational hate he gets from a few people on here just smacks of jealousy.

Well answer and Question with a question. Why hasn’t the CSA book any friendlies vs top 15 teams ? You can’t say money because FIFA was handing out money left, right and centre, so must be the talent problem ? Well we have superstars now and solid players. Ok Covid problems well... other CONCACAF teams went and played so it’s BS. 

Herdman’s first game was vs B/C New Zealand ( they didn’t have there star players) team with Zero fans in Spain and very little coverage. 

Each time Herdman has played a top team he’s lost ( he did win vs US once) and he has looked really bad, like he got out managed, we and media started to go after him for it. Reed Fired Oz not because of performance and I find the money thing BS. They fired him because they were going to lose Herdman to england. Reed and Herdman are close. It’s well documented. Also Herdman has now FULL control over the women’s and men’s game. The Bev hiring showed everything. 

Because the CSA has put everything on Herdman and has given him the kingdom if he fails the CSA looks horrible and fails. 

its better for the CSA to look good and pumped out oh winning 7 in a row and Davies and David scoring at will and dominating games 11-0. The Arfield situation says a lot. He was tired of playing minnows and pissed about getting hurt in the Caribbean. The CSA has zero intention of playing top teams. 

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2 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Well answer and Question with a question. Why hasn’t the CSA book any friendlies vs top 15 teams ? You can’t say money because FIFA was handing out money left, right and centre, so must be the talent problem ? Well we have superstars now and solid players. Ok Covid problems well... other CONCACAF teams went and played so it’s BS. 

Herdman’s first game was vs B/C New Zealand ( they didn’t have there star players) team with Zero fans in Spain and very little coverage. 

Each time Herdman has played a top team he’s lost ( he did win vs US once) and he has looked really bad, like he got out managed, we and media started to go after him for it. Reed Fired Oz not because of performance and I find the money thing BS. They fired him because they were going to lose Herdman to england. Reed and Herdman are close. It’s well documented. Also Herdman has now FULL control over the women’s and men’s game. The Bev hiring showed everything. 

Because the CSA has put everything on Herdman and has given him the kingdom if he fails the CSA looks horrible and fails. 

its better for the CSA to look good and pumped out oh winning 7 in a row and Davies and David scoring at will and dominating games 11-0. The Arfield situation says a lot. He was tired of playing minnows and pissed about getting hurt in the Caribbean. The CSA has zero intention of playing top teams. 

I am all for dishing out criticism to the CSA when it is deserved, but I am not making the connections that you are on this. I mean, I get the Oz firing thing, and I agree we should be playing better teams, more often. However, the Octagon will literally give us that and so will the World Cup. The CSA is doing a pretty good job giving them everything they need to make that dream a reality, extra friendlies aside. To be fair to them I haven't seen the need for friendlies so far this calendar year.

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16 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Speaking of wannabe coaches, I didn’t see Jason de Vos or Andrew Olivieri AKA the CSA Peter Griffin During this whole group round. Maybe the CSA finally did the right thing and send them both packing.

Not sure why anyone wouldn't want Jason De Vos around the current team in some form.  He was a great leader and captain.

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5 minutes ago, Acid-Tone said:

Not sure why anyone wouldn't want Jason De Vos around the current team in some form.  He was a great leader and captain.

I could go for Jason De Vos as an assistant on Herdman's staff in the future especially if we do get to Qatar

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