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Herdman new head coach

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6 hours ago, grigorio said:

With this second chance at it, I don't see how if he doesn't reach the Oct his job is safe. I mean, all it takes is beating teams ranked well below you in the region... 

I agree that reaching the Oct should be the minimum acceptable result - just not sure the CSA would take the required action if we didn’t.  

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Herdman has a lot of political power within the CSA, so it will not be a straightforward process of firing him just because he fails (if he fails). There will have to be significant outside pressure for the CSA to get rid of him before 2026.

I want to like Herdman but he's made so many odd moves, for example bringing Henry into camp when he was suspended. His inexperience has hurt us, but at least he had a chance to make mistakes in two tournaments prior to WCQ. Hopefully he's learned something about himself. 

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See I am the opposite.  I dont like Herdman but I really would like his moves to pan out and I could start to like him.  Sure he has made some strange goofs but coming through in the next round of games will go a long way to winning over skeptics.  He's had 2.5 years to get settled in and get the players/program lined up his way.  Hes got more young offensive talent than a CDN coach has seen in a long time.  Time to get it done.  

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31 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

He's got more young offensive talent than a CDN coach has seen in a long time. 

With that, the levels of expectation gets cranked up significantly.  And this isn't a starting XI that picks itself:  all depends on how well he handles the bigger personalities if things don't go as planned.

Surely we can get to the Ocho with this squad?

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Posted (edited)

I won't lie, I've been a supporter of Herdman despite his goofs, I've been patient and given the man the benefit of the doubt, but if he fails to make El Ocho, specially when for the first time since who knows when the odds are actually in our favour, I will not make any excuses for him. This is why he was hired, to get the CMNT to a world cup. He's had time to learn and tweak things around, but we're no longer competing for Gold Cup qualification or CNL spots, WCQ is the real deal.

Edited by LeoH037

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Posted (edited)

My issue has been how he has often set up the team to fail and then played it off like it was a good thing. Davies at LB had been horrible for Canada, and he refused to accept that in post game pressers. We lost to Mexico when he played that ridiculous formation that included Larin at wing. He took what worked amazingly well against the US and ruined it by putting Davies at LB and we got demolished 4-1.

He has time to prove me wrong but so far he's 1-3 in big matches for Canada and he doesn't seem to be a reflective kind of guy.

Edited by VinceA

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1 hour ago, VinceA said:

My issue has been how he has often set up the team to fail and then played it off like it was a good thing. Davies at LB had been horrible for Canada, and he refused to accept that in post game pressers. We lost to Mexico when he played that ridiculous formation that included Larin at wing. He took what worked amazingly well against the US and ruined it by putting Davies at LB and we got demolished 4-1.

He has time to prove me wrong but so far he's 1-3 in big matches for Canada and he doesn't seem to be a reflective kind of guy.

That is at the root of my concern.  He is essentially still in a learning phase, and while confidence is generally  a good thing, I am not sure his level of self-belief suggests the sort of humility required to acknowledge and accept some of the lessons he has been presented with.  And at the end of the day, we only have so many “big moments” where this is tested.  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, VinceA said:

My issue has been how he has often set up the team to fail and then played it off like it was a good thing. Davies at LB had been horrible for Canada, and he refused to accept that in post game pressers. We lost to Mexico when he played that ridiculous formation that included Larin at wing. He took what worked amazingly well against the US and ruined it by putting Davies at LB and we got demolished 4-1.

He has time to prove me wrong but so far he's 1-3 in big matches for Canada and he doesn't seem to be a reflective kind of guy.

I still haven't let this go. I really do not understand it. Didn't he ask the players whether they want to attack the US or sit back?

I don't care so much that he asked the players, because I don't think that approach is inherently bad. What I do have a problem with is how he set the team up to attack. He figured that Davies at LB brings opportunity to get more attackers on the field, but Davies is our best attacker and he was on the backline. Furthermore, he violated his own principal of playing Davies at LB against the weaker teams. Against the teams we dominate possession against.

I find this difficult to reconcile.  

And then on top of all of that, like you said, he took something that worked amazingly well and threw it away.

We really let the USA off the hook and it is a damn shame. 

Edited by Obinna

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It might sound crazy but I didn't mind the experimentation in the Mexico match. It was a low pressure situation (no one expected us to win, we didn't need to win) early on in his national team career. It was the Haiti match where I began to think that, despite being well prepared, he may not be able to deviate from that plan. In the first US match his plan worked perfectly, but the second one he got it wrong from the start and again couldn't adjust.

For me, the question is still: If Herdman's meticulous gameplan doesn't work, can he adjust mid-match? So far the answer is no.

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3 hours ago, VinceA said:

My issue has been how he has often set up the team to fail and then played it off like it was a good thing. Davies at LB had been horrible for Canada, and he refused to accept that in post game pressers. We lost to Mexico when he played that ridiculous formation that included Larin at wing. He took what worked amazingly well against the US and ruined it by putting Davies at LB and we got demolished 4-1.

He has time to prove me wrong but so far he's 1-3 in big matches for Canada and he doesn't seem to be a reflective kind of guy.

The first US game was in a lot of ways the highlight for me of watching the CMNT.  It was a goofy 4-4-2 diamond but it sure was effective with us clogging the middle and having Davies and David maraud the US back line.  I really thought that the program had permanently turned the corner.

I’ve loved Davies playing LB for Bayern and in some ways I’d love to just have a super player back there but really when you look at our program talent he has to be in a more advanced role.  It’s so strange to say that about a guy who is top 3 in the world at his position that we should play him out of position.

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Posted (edited)

Based strictly on the personnel available, this is an Ocho qualifying team, plain and simple.  I haven't always said that about our NT, especially during the times when FC Unattached or FC In-the-pressbox-on-matchday provided too many squad players for us.  But now, though it still has question marks in some areas, this team makes the final eight.

Edited by BearcatSA

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12 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

The first US game was in a lot of ways the highlight for me of watching the CMNT.  It was a goofy 4-4-2 diamond but it sure was effective with us clogging the middle and having Davies and David maraud the US back line.  I really thought that the program had permanently turned the corner.

I’ve loved Davies playing LB for Bayern and in some ways I’d love to just have a super player back there but really when you look at our program talent he has to be in a more advanced role.  It’s so strange to say that about a guy who is top 3 in the world at his position that we should play him out of position.

Think it was a 4-2-2-2  box midfield?  but agree re David and Davies vs the US.  The intimidation factor of having those 2 upfront and seeing the fear in the eyes of Bradley and their LB  (ex-Montreal) when either of our duo got the ball was something to behold.  Both had the freedom  to move to open space anywhere on the front line and it helped our midfield and defence as the US had to play it safe. The speed and skill of David and Davies together is our greatest weapon. I know that sends some of our strong players to the bench but....

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4 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Based strictly on the personnel avaiable, this is an Ocho qualifying team, plain and simple.  I haven't always said that about our NT, especially during the times when FC Unattached or FC In-the-pressbox-on-matchday provided too many squad players for us.  But now, though it still has question marks in some areas, this team makes the final eight.

This. I know we all hated Floro, but  player wise, the cupboard was really bare during his term compared to what we have now.  One goal away vs El Salvador and  we would have been in the Hex. 

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If Herdman qualifies us for Qatar and Canada we manage to actually qualify for the first time since 86 then Herdman will for sure keep his job. If we don't get there and or let's say we underperform again in the 2021 Gold Cup,  he will for sure get fired

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9 minutes ago, TGAA_Star said:

If Herdman qualifies us for Qatar and Canada we manage to actually qualify for the first time since 86 then Herdman will for sure keep his job. If we don't get there and or let's say we underperform again in the 2021 Gold Cup,  he will for sure get fired

Not true.  If we make the ocho but fail to make the top 4, he will not be turfed.  

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11 minutes ago, Lansdude said:

On paper, we're superior to Costa Rica and can hang with the U.S. Making the Ocho and then qualifying from there has to be the expectation for Herdman and this team.

Yeah we may or may not be superior to Costa Rica but other teams in CONCACAF like Jamaica, Honduras and Panama can Canada beat those countries in big match pressure situations?

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On paper Canada sits 3-5 in CONCACAF.  But we have never proven that paper depth can turn into competitive results.  

It would be a disaster to not make the Ocho.  It would be disappointing if we don’t get in the top 4.
 

This really is the time for Canada to make a move and become a World Cup program.

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53 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

On paper Canada sits 3-5 in CONCACAF.  But we have never proven that paper depth can turn into competitive results.  

It would be a disaster to not make the Ocho.  It would be disappointing if we don’t get in the top 4.
 

This really is the time for Canada to make a move and become a World Cup program.

Yeah well Canada has the chance the opportunity to be a World Cup nation starting from 2022 onwards because even though if let's say we don't qualify for 2022, we will be there in 2026. Then anythin from 2030 onwards we have no excuse especially with 48 teams.

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