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matty

Herdman new head coach

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Herdman talks it up for the first game. Thunder bla bla bla before the game and we win. Ok good and fine I like that. Showed passion, Confidence and swagger.  Ok second game,  everyone knew the Americans were coming. The Americans were not going to lay down for us  specially after being embarrassed .  We lose badly and Herdman  turns the press conference into a ******* Ted talk ! Soft, happy planet world. I’m sorry that’s not what this team needs,  if we want to compete with the big boys, we have to act like we can and losing like that is not acceptable period. It’s the  mentality of our men’s and now it seems the women’s programs from u15 up! Losing is ok to the CSA. Oh but wait we won 2  bronze medals ....

Edited by SpecialK

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21 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Herdman talks it up for the first game. Thunder bla bla bla before the game and we win. Ok good and fine I like that. Showed passion, Confidence and swagger.  Ok second game,  everyone knew the Americans were coming. The Americans were not going to lay down for us  specially after being embarrassed .  We lose badly and Herdman  turns the press conference into a ******* Ted talk ! Soft, happy planet world. I’m sorry that’s not what this team needs,  if we want to compete with the big boys, we have to act like we can and losing like that is not acceptable period. It’s the  mentality of our men’s and now it seems the women’s programs from u15 up! Losing is ok to the CSA. Oh but wait we won 2  bronze medals ....

Really is the most frustrating thing. There is a halo around this team strictly because of the talent. Management is pushing us in the wrong directions. 
 

fck herdman 

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I'm sorry but Herdman is untested, unfortunately the Women's game is really neglected for world soccer.  His teams played a ton of long ball and the Canadian women phyisically battered teams, but the tactics weren't exactly next level, the Canadian team had more talent then most teams and relied on that and its physicality.  The US coach who won two world cups is terrible tactically and setting up her team, but they have so much talent so they can cover it up.  Herdman talks a good game and sounds good but how do you see how Davies tore up the USA and in the next game were they are going to attack more you don't play a single attacking player who can stretch on the counter attack other then maybe David, but that's not really his strongest point.  The USA was going to try and play a high line against which is perfect for a guy like Davies but he had to change what worked and he had no plan B, the same thing that happened against Haiti and the same thing that happened against Mexico, he has elaborate plans to look like a genius but when things aren't going well he has no ability to adjust or change the team.  He's a fraud.  

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Theres a very small number of coaches who would get a win in 2 official games against usa with this squad..defender and goalkeeper pool is weak overall..has made strong selections overall and masterful tactics in the first game against usa to beat them..has done a good job overall 

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I have not read everything, so I apologize for any repeated thoughts.  He tried something different both times, one worked and one did not.  I would have gone with something more traditional that protected the flanks, because the draw was paramount, but I am not a professional coach.

But he tried something different.  Not that it is my decision but it comes down to whether that is what you want from the coach or not.

The US are not rubbish, we beat them on merit and they responded.  We were in tough situation from when the format changed, we need to respond again.

Edited by WestHamCanadianinOxford

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I didn’t like seeing Davies at LB or Henry in for Cornelius, and I thought we should have changed things up during the first half or at the absolute latest at half time. But splitting a home and away against the USA shouldn’t be cause for firing him. And he definitely shouldn’t be fired for a press conference (short of something ridiculously extremely controversial). I didn’t even detect anything objectionable in his press conference. Some things I don’t agree with but his explanations showed some logic to his decisions I thought.

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9 hours ago, villus said:

I'm sorry but Herdman is untested, unfortunately the Women's game is really neglected for world soccer.  His teams played a ton of long ball and the Canadian women phyisically battered teams, but the tactics weren't exactly next level, the Canadian team had more talent then most teams and relied on that and its physicality.  

Incorrect, Canada woman played the long ball pre Herdman. He changed it to the modern style of fullbacks being involved in the offense. He moved Lawrence from midfield to fullback and started playing Chapman. Now the team wasn't good enough to fully play this style, so it was mostly crossing from the flanks. Physical style to dominate opponents is also a relic of Pellerud days.

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, red card said:

Incorrect, Canada woman played the long ball pre Herdman. He changed it to the modern style of fullbacks being involved in the offense. He moved Lawrence from midfield to fullback and started playing Chapman. Now the team wasn't good enough to fully play this style, so it was mostly crossing from the flanks. Physical style to dominate opponents is also a relic of Pellerud days.

 

 

 

It may have been a relic but he played that style and his successful runs relied on it.   I'm not saying he was a dumpster fire by any means or that he could be a good coach, but I don't think he was tested or there was enough evidence to evaluate him on to make the decision to coach the mens team. For the women's game that he competed in you didn't need to be at a high level or tactically have to play the same kind of chess that you may have to play at the senior mens international level.  And just to be clear I'm not saying women are inferior tactically or that its poor soccer but that unfortunately the game is neglected outside of a few countries and Canada was blessed with a very good base of talent.  

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Herdman has been fortunate enough to take over two of the most talented programs our two national teams have ever had.  The Canadian women of the past decade and our current men's program.  Not taking away any of his achievements but he was given a lot more talent to work with than any other national team coach in history for both Men and Women.

Coaching men & coaching women are completely different as well.

Edited by Corazon

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On 11/17/2019 at 9:34 AM, Corazon said:

Herdman has been fortunate enough to take over two of the most talented programs our two national teams have ever had.  The Canadian women of the past decade and our current men's program.  Not taking away any of his achievements but he was given a lot more talent to work with than any other national team coach in history for both Men and Women.

Coaching men & coaching women are completely different as well.

The talent on the women's team didn't fall into his lap as he went out and found youngish technical players that often weren't considered under Pellerud - usually needed to prove it in US college. Names include Buchanan, Lawrence, Fleming, Prince, Rose and a couple of others that didn't work out.

He also brought in overlooked older players like Chapman & Scott. And he set up the Excel pathway system so that the pipeline would be remain when he left.

Part of this is the different nature of the women's game - less club influence in development and the leaps in talent seen in younger players.

 

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41 minutes ago, red card said:

The talent on the women's team didn't fall into his lap as he went out and found youngish technical players that often weren't considered under Pellerud - usually needed to prove it in US college. Names include Buchanan, Lawrence, Fleming, Prince, Rose and a couple of others that didn't work out.

He also brought in overlooked older players like Chapman & Scott. And he set up the Excel pathway system so that the pipeline would be remain when he left.

Part of this is the different nature of the women's game - less club influence in development and the leaps in talent seen in younger players.

 

If I insinuted that the talent fell into his lap, then that's not what I meant at all.  I follow the women much less than the men's program, but I am aware that many of the young Canadian women superstars emerged while he was already coach of the program.  I was unaware of his influence on these players and what he contributed to bringing them into the program.  Statement was just that this has been probably the best generation of Canadian women players as a whole.

I believe the talent pool of the men did somewhat fall into his lap but he has clearly done a good job winning over some important dual nationals to the men's program.

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Almost 1 week later and I am still not over Herdman's decision to break a formation that wasn't broken.

That is all.

Actually, no. One last word:

David and Davies should keep playing as a pair up front.

David picked up another goal and assist today as a CAM. You can finally put me in the David at no. 10 camp. This kid absolutely has to play there!

Let Davies lead the line and run until he can't stand. He is a nightmare on the fore-check. His speed is world class and he will have tons of space and he is best in space. And maybe, just maybe, the kid will develop a finishing ability playing as a no. 9. Now that would really round out his game.

And yes, I am willing to start Cavallini and Hoilett on the bench to develop this partnership.

Edited by Obinna

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24 minutes ago, Lofty said:

The big advantage that we armchair coaches have is that our dissenting ideas will never be put to the sword, er, test. So of course they would all work fantastically well and much better than the ones that were actually used. 😁

He'll most likely experiment in the hunger games tournament for the WCQ

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17 hours ago, Obinna said:

Almost 1 week later and I am still not over Herdman's decision to break a formation that wasn't broken.

That is all.

Actually, no. One last word:

David and Davies should keep playing as a pair up front.

David picked up another goal and assist today as a CAM. You can finally put me in the David at no. 10 camp. This kid absolutely has to play there!

Let Davies lead the line and run until he can't stand. He is a nightmare on the fore-check. His speed is world class and he will have tons of space and he is best in space. And maybe, just maybe, the kid will develop a finishing ability playing as a no. 9. Now that would really round out his game.

And yes, I am willing to start Cavallini and Hoilett on the bench to develop this partnership.

David is perfectly designed to play as a false 9 because he's shown he can drop in and play as a 10 really well, and one of his biggest strengths is late runs into the box.  Davies is a perfect compliment to play with a false 9 because of his ability to run behind so well and attract a ton of attention for a roaming 9 like David to exploit.  I think we should be building towards using those two in that role, I think for now the best match would be Hoilett/David/Davies with David pulling CB's out of place and having a couple wide forwards with pace to exploit that space.  

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After giving it some more thought last night as I struggled to fall asleep and nearing the 1 week of that disastrous performance, I echo the thoughts of many in here of what on earth Herdman was thinking when it came to changing formation & tactics for last week's game !!!!

Here is what I came up with:

Goalie plus the back 4 unchanged from the game in Toronto (Cornelius & Vitória as the CB pairing & Kamal Miller as our LB, tbf he played well in Toronto in that role), Davies in attacking role on the left wing and Hoilett on the opposite wing, David in that number #10 role that many in here are calling for (me, myself would like to see that too next time around) and Cav. up top!!!!

In centre of midfield I would have had MAK & Piette (Piette moving just beneath the CBs as usual providing that defensive coverage and doing his usual stuff of breaking up plays, tackling in the MF area and his usual diagonal passes when getting on the attack) with MAK acting as a box-to-box... Pretty confident that formation, could have yielded us the result we needed (talking more on the lines of a draw, lol)

My subs would have been Hoilett for Liam Millar

Cav for Arfield/Osorio

MAK for Eustáquio

Otherwise, the formation where we had Davies & David in an attacking/striking partnership would of been good too!!!... It looks like the 2 do have some good chemistry together, something I did not really see with Cav & David paired up together honestly!

If only!!!!!..... Here are my 2 cents on last week's reflection, lol... Just finished re-watching the 2nd half, as that's where I pretty much left off and agree with everyone on Eustáquio, lots of reasons to be high on that guy & joyful of him for joining our national hold... Man, that guy has some special passing game, let alone vision to find the open guys across the field!!!! 😉

On another note realized that for defenders, in CBs there are not many promising up & comers with good upsides save for perhaps Cornelius for now & Kamal Miller (although Herdman seems to prefer him on the LB) .. Hence, a guy like Martín Amuz would be massive to pursue!

Our fullbacks, are too inexperienced and not many veteran established options there to provide a little bit of that leadership role (like Vitória seems to be doing in the CB group and David Edgar previously)... Left back we are very thin/weak at, as if we exclude Davies from that position, we don't really have anybody besides Kamal Miller, Adekugbe and Cóordoba (who can also fill in that role).. Hopefully we get Bassong in the mix, but am not sure if he is playing regular pro minutes at Cercle Brugge... Herdman in one past interview last year mentioned him as someone he is looking at, though, not specifically but mentioned about some players involved in youth teams from Ligue 1/2 and named Lille (which was the team he was involved in, before moving into Cercle Brugge)... Would happen to be the same league/environment of David & Larin too, lol

 

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@CANMNT_SUPERFAN  I agree with most of what you posted there, I'm still pissed that we blew this great opportunity and Herdman definitely has to take a good bit of the blame, I think Hoilett should have started this match as well, I wouldn't have a starting 11 with Arfield not in it, probably in place of Kaye! I hope your sleepless nights end and you can move on to the next MNT disappointment!

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Not saying but saying.. Not sure if are aware but Carlo Ancelloti has a house in Vancouver and has been spotted at Whitecaps office and games. I think if Herdman doesn't get us to at least to the Inter Continental play in game he should be fired. I hope CSA starts to lay the groundwork for what would have to be considered a nice job to bridge Mr Ancelloti in to retirement. 

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5 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Not saying but saying.. Not sure if are aware but Carlo Ancelloti has a house in Vancouver and has been spotted at Whitecaps office and games. I think if Herdman doesn't get us to at least to the Inter Continental play in game he should be fired. I hope CSA starts to lay the groundwork for what would have to be considered a nice job to bridge Mr Ancelloti in to retirement. 

I'm convinced you're high off some good Vancouver weed, that stimulates your psychedelic thoughts. 

There must be two Ancelloti's because I know the one that coached Juventus, Milan, Chelsea, PSG, Madrid, Munich, Napoli.... the CSA could never afford. 

I'm over the coach, just give us some friendlies ffs!

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3 minutes ago, Shway said:

I'm convinced you're high off some good Vancouver weed, that stimulates your psychedelic thoughts. 

There must be two Ancelloti's because I know the one that coached Juventus, Milan, Chelsea, PSG, Madrid, Munich, Napoli.... the CSA could never afford. 

I'm over the coach, just give us some friendlies ffs!

Reach for the stars

Well he lives here and coaching full time club football is a grind. Often in world football coach's get in to a national team role because they're almost done. it's not day in day out. Ancelloti is getting old and him and his wife are loaded. I'm not saying tomorrow but in a few years. Maybe after Herdman gets a full look

Edited by SpursFlu

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