Herdman new head coach

[Kent]

Let’s get back on topic. Herdman should be held accountable for the result 2 days ago!!

Or maybe, that game was at home, it wasn’t a real test, so it doesn’t count.

Or, the thing that shocked me most about Tuesday’s game is that I learned that Berhalter hates friendlies more than Herdman. USA must play less friendlies than us, that’s why they are so bad.

[BrennanFan]

If I bumped into Herdman on the street tomorrow, and he asked me to try to run through a random brick wall, I'd do it.

[costarg]

When Herdman says this is just the beginning, its not just a speech, they all believe it, including his gang of assistants.  His plan was to slowly unleash this team and philosophy at the Gold Cup.  His one real mistake was trusting Godinho, he's obviously not on the same emotional intelligence level as the rest of the team, he imploded and let 3 late goals almost single-handedly. Herdman had a very specific plan, he mentioned not wanting to give away too much in the first Mexico game, sounded arrogant and like bullshit back then, but seems pretty credible now. 

What I love about our situation is we dominated pretty much all aspects of the game and field(i use the term loosely, because it could have been closer).  Tactics were perfect, and man to man match ups were perfect, we beat them in hunger and drive too.  I'm not even sure this was our best formation or 11, it was on that day, but how about November?  

If I'm the USA, I'm really scratching my head, cause they have no idea how or who we'll line up.  We had Fraser, Hoilett and Cavallini come off the bench and hit them hard.  They gotta be wondering, what else we have on that bench that they haven't noticed or looked up?  "If" USA decides they need to do their homework this time around, what do they base it off of?  We've played different formations and line-ups in each of our past 5-6 games going back to the Gold Cup. We've done 3-4-3, 4-3-3, 4-4-2, and 4-2-2-2 in the span of 6 games or so.  We've benched Hoilett and Cavallini to start our most important game.  We've played Kaye and Davies at LB, then Miller shows up and does that.

All they know after that match is we'll come out like a bunch of juiced up psychos looking for blood yelling "SORRY EH!" while blowing past them.  When asked in post-game, Herdman said: 

"I won't reveal too much about our strategy, because we're playing them again in a few weeks.  However I'm not even sure we'll use that again". 

This isn't a one trick pony.  USA will have to field their best 11, up their intensity, somehow find cohesiveness, get behind their coach, and find belief in their system and themselves.  Issue is they don't have much at stake, and I don't feel they want to run through brick walls for their coach.  On paper they're still favorites, but won't be the case in their heads and they know it and they'll feel it in their dressing room.

There isn't as much a gap in talent or pedigree as they thought.  What we do lack in skill, we make up for in system and work ethic.  I bet they come out dirty throwing elbows and hacking at everyone's ankle's and knees in the first 30.  Altidore will be Altidore, crying at the ref.  My biggest fear is Altidore baits Henry into a red, everyone knows about Henry's temperament by now.  The home fans will also do their best to influence the ref as well.  We'll be screaming for VAR.  Do they decide to ignore last match as a one off, and try to play to their strengths at home, assuming they won't get burned on the counter after seeing the Davies and David show?  

Keep in mind, this is Canada 2019: Henry is available for next match, Estaquio should be fit, Cordova is still waiting, Tabla's talent still hasn't landed.  ZBG gets better with every game.  Crepeau is sitting on the bench.  Millar's also eagerly awaits his moment, and the hunger is obvious in that one.  Akindele, Larin can both fill a net.  Did I mention Hutchinson yet?  Someone needs to send Tomori the match video stat!  Herdman needs a 15 minute sit down with him before Englands next match.

Edited October 18, 2019 by costarg

[SkuseisLoose]

Godinho was at fault for the penalty and he and Borjan are at fault for the penalty but to blame anyone but Davies for the final goal is laughable.

[costarg]

34 minutes ago, SkuseisLoose said:

Godinho was at fault for the penalty and he and Borjan are at fault for the penalty but to blame anyone but Davies for the final goal is laughable.

The build up on the last goal was up Godinho's side, he was totally out of position and failed to track back, leaving a huge opening. To put that on the last guy that touched or didn't touch the ball also isn't fair.  Its like saying the keeper is at fault for every goal.

Every Haiti attack came up Godinho's side, he was obviously targeted as the weakest link at halftime.

Perhaps its not fair of me to put 100% of every goal on Godinho, but it is totally accurate to say he was over 50% responsible for 100% of their goals.  He cost us the game, early exit from a major tournament, a much easier road to qualification for the World Cup, all of our joint anger and bad mood for days after that match, and the effects that had on our families, friends and coworkers. 

All this cause of one guy that couldn't focus and shut it down.  Its an example that Herdman should use.

  

Edited October 18, 2019 by costarg

[Big_M]

godinho..gosh the nightmares are coming back

[dyslexic nam]

I feel bad for the guy.  Thrown in against a tough Haitian team when he clearly wasn't ready and now he gets ripped on. 

[costarg]

Just now, dyslexic nam said:

I feel bad for the guy.  Thrown in against a tough Haitian team when he clearly wasn't ready and now he gets ripped on. 

I feel bad for kids working in sweat shops in Asia, but seriously, this is pro sports, you gotta stay focused and determined or its all on you.

If anyone got thrown in, it was Fraser & Miller vs the USA.

Also, in all fairness, I probably sound like a total jerk when it comes to Godinho's Gold Cup, but lets keep it real, no one "threw him in", he wanted to be there and he got his chance.  There were 3 possible outcomes.  Meet expectations, exceed expectations or crash and burn.  If he just met expectations, Canada's path and status today would be much different.

 

[BrennanFan]

32 minutes ago, costarg said:

The build up on the last goal was up Godinho's side, he was totally out of position and failed to track back, leaving a huge opening. To put that on the last guy that touched or didn't touch the ball also isn't fair.  Its like saying the keeper is at fault for every goal.

Every Haiti attack came up Godinho's side, he was obviously targeted as the weakest link at halftime.

Perhaps its not fair of me to put 100% of every goal on Godinho, but it is totally accurate to say he was over 50% responsible for 100% of their goals.  He cost us the game, early exit from a major tournament, a much easier road to qualification for the World Cup, all of our joint anger and bad mood for days after that match, and the effects that had on our families, friends and coworkers. 

All this cause of one guy that couldn't focus and shut it down.  Its an example that Herdman should use.

  

All of this is true, and it's still not Godinho's fault. I'm sure he gave maximum effort.  It's on Herdman's squad selections.  Godinho wasn't ready and Herdman put him out there.  Error, yes, but we need to step back and look at the big picture.  Herdman has put his faith in our youth and that is where our success has come from.

He called Millar in on day one.  He called David before he was anything.  Cornelius, Miller, Laryea - all winners.  And it continues with Liam Fraser. 

When we think about why a team plays like more than the sum of its parts, it comes down to trust.  Coach trusting players, players trusting coach and each other.  Herdman believes in our young Canadian players.  And the players are dying to pay him back and do well for him.  It's an amazing thing that is happening here.   

Even with Godinho's failure, Herdman's trust in the youth has been a huge net gain for the team.  

And he hasn't given Godinho a pity feel better recall as well.  Herdman definitely has a ruthless streak to him that we don't see in his media hits.  Not recalling Godinho or ZBG and replacing both immediately.  Not calling Akindele despite his goal scoring.  Tabla.  Manjrekar James.  Cyle Larin.  Not calling Vitoria when he wasn't playing, even when were short on CBs at the Gold Cup, and then calling him as soon as he's doing well.  These are all big decisions.  Herdman has definitely taken full control of this team.  He is the boss and he has the respect of his players.

Comparing Herdman to Berhalter, it's really no comparison. 

Herdman is still learning and that is almost ridiculous to say at this level.  But at least he has proven to be a quick learner and he is correcting his errors as he goes.  Let's hope it continues.   

[johnyb]

On 10/15/2019 at 10:57 PM, Cheeta said:

Don't want to get too ahead of ourselves just yet.  However...

Me and mine have a drinking game,  because we're drinkers.  Any-who, in this instance it would relate to our "Zombie 'pocalypse Team" game.  It's quite simple, you choose who's on your Zombie 'pocalypse team and you explain why.  So and so because they have fire arms.   So and so because they're in the medical field and trained up as such.  So and so because they have rural property and that'll be a safe place to hide out.  So and so because he's hung like a horse.  Etc and etc. 

EVERYONE has someone on their Zombie 'pocalypse Team for no other reason except that they were born lucky.  And that counts for something.   Think Glen on The Walking Dead.  Sure, it ended badly for him but he had a great run there. 

I give you John Herdman. 

I was trying to translate this and then realized it was half price wine night at Nicolino's.

[BrennanFan]

Good tactics breakdown:

https://spielverlagerung.com/2019/10/18/canada-stuns-stagnant-usa/

[rkomar]

1 hour ago, BrennanFan said:

Good tactics breakdown:

https://spielverlagerung.com/2019/10/18/canada-stuns-stagnant-usa/

This should put paid to those claims that Herdman is nothing more than a snake oil salesman.  The tactical details made my head spin, and I used to be a nuclear physicist!

[red card]

Another deep dive tactical look at the match.

https://medium.com/@Peter.Galindo/canada-2-0-usa-canadians-box-in-the-americans-3aa29accb8c3

[red card]

This must be the Herdman influence:

 

[The Ref]

Did Herdman received a monetary bonus for having his team defeated the U.S.?  Many times is all about the money!

 

[ted]

15 minutes ago, The Ref said:

Did Herdman received a monetary bonus for having his team defeated the U.S.?  Many times is all about the money!

Well the players get a bonus for winning, maybe the coach does too, so what??!?

[nolbertos]

So how about that Herdman, eh.  Such a genius coach that everyone was raving about a month ago and now.....  He won one battle but lost the war, too bad, so sad.  Herdman gets no passing grade

[Lansdude]

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. There are known knowns and known unknowns. But there are also unknown unknowns.

[SpecialK]

 I know times are changing and a lot of the old-school mentality of coaching is gone/fading away in sports. But after watching Davies and Herdman with press just really makes me sick. Like where’s the passion ?!? Where’s we played like shit and this is not  acceptable ! Like the America’s were coming in talking shit with  confidence and kick us around ! Where’s the fire?!?! Why are acting like this is no big deal?  Where is the accountability ?

[SpecialK]

Herdman talks it up for the first game. Thunder bla bla bla before the game and we win. Ok good and fine I like that. Showed passion, Confidence and swagger.  Ok second game,  everyone knew the Americans were coming. The Americans were not going to lay down for us  specially after being embarrassed .  We lose badly and Herdman  turns the press conference into a fucking Ted talk ! Soft, happy planet world. I’m sorry that’s not what this team needs,  if we want to compete with the big boys, we have to act like we can and losing like that is not acceptable period. It’s the  mentality of our men’s and now it seems the women’s programs from u15 up! Losing is ok to the CSA. Oh but wait we won 2  bronze medals ....

Edited November 16, 2019 by SpecialK

[hamiltonfan]

21 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Herdman talks it up for the first game. Thunder bla bla bla before the game and we win. Ok good and fine I like that. Showed passion, Confidence and swagger.  Ok second game,  everyone knew the Americans were coming. The Americans were not going to lay down for us  specially after being embarrassed .  We lose badly and Herdman  turns the press conference into a ******* Ted talk ! Soft, happy planet world. I’m sorry that’s not what this team needs,  if we want to compete with the big boys, we have to act like we can and losing like that is not acceptable period. It’s the  mentality of our men’s and now it seems the women’s programs from u15 up! Losing is ok to the CSA. Oh but wait we won 2  bronze medals ....

Really is the most frustrating thing. There is a halo around this team strictly because of the talent. Management is pushing us in the wrong directions. 
 

fck herdman 

[hamiltonfan]

Same story with the recent U20 and U17. We have talent, we have never had such inexperienced, self centred, managers.  

Edited November 16, 2019 by hamiltonfan

[villus]

I'm sorry but Herdman is untested, unfortunately the Women's game is really neglected for world soccer.  His teams played a ton of long ball and the Canadian women phyisically battered teams, but the tactics weren't exactly next level, the Canadian team had more talent then most teams and relied on that and its physicality.  The US coach who won two world cups is terrible tactically and setting up her team, but they have so much talent so they can cover it up.  Herdman talks a good game and sounds good but how do you see how Davies tore up the USA and in the next game were they are going to attack more you don't play a single attacking player who can stretch on the counter attack other then maybe David, but that's not really his strongest point.  The USA was going to try and play a high line against which is perfect for a guy like Davies but he had to change what worked and he had no plan B, the same thing that happened against Haiti and the same thing that happened against Mexico, he has elaborate plans to look like a genius but when things aren't going well he has no ability to adjust or change the team.  He's a fraud.  

[Big_M]

Theres a very small number of coaches who would get a win in 2 official games against usa with this squad..defender and goalkeeper pool is weak overall..has made strong selections overall and masterful tactics in the first game against usa to beat them..has done a good job overall 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

I have not read everything, so I apologize for any repeated thoughts.  He tried something different both times, one worked and one did not.  I would have gone with something more traditional that protected the flanks, because the draw was paramount, but I am not a professional coach.

But he tried something different.  Not that it is my decision but it comes down to whether that is what you want from the coach or not.

The US are not rubbish, we beat them on merit and they responded.  We were in tough situation from when the format changed, we need to respond again.

Edited November 17, 2019 by WestHamCanadianinOxford