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Herdman new head coach

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2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yeah but this squad is undeniably strong in relation to past teams.  I don't think it is proximity bias to expect more from this team.  

(Because I love to derail threads)

I present to you our 2004 starting lineup against Belize which consisted of:

2 - Bundesliga players
2 - MLS players
1 - English Premier Player
2 - English First Division players
1 - English Second Division player
1 - Austrian First Division player
1 - Swiss First Division player
1 - A-League player

That last one is a little dubious, especially when you have a Scottish Premier player on the bench that could've easily taken that position.  Also, subbing in was another English Premier player at the time.  On the bench, there are players from the Belgian First division, the English First division and our (soon-to-be) greatest player ever.

That qualifying campaign will continue to go down as the biggest opportunity missed.  As long as Herdman isn't making any of those mistakes, it's all gravy for me.

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1 hour ago, KW519 said:

You have national team members praising Herdmans methods then theres forum members watching interviews and touchline body language formulating opinions 😂😂 2 losses(one to mexico) in a calendar year and people are calling for his job wtf? 

Alphonso Davies publically stated he would run through a brick wall for the guy (he's prolly not the only one). In the 3 cycles I have followed, I don't think I've ever seen the Canadian squad so united and undevided since I've been following.

Also, Herdman gives Hoilett the armband last game and he bags a hatty and was MOM.... a handful on here were saying we should start someone else. 

As much as peeps want to complain or critize, it's cool, but the reality is, unless we:

1) finish #7-35 in rankings and get KOed in the qualifying group or the 1st KO round of that WCQ bracket side;

and/or,

2) he completely loses the squad. 

Herdman is going to be our manager for a while, that's my opinion. So the EXCESSIVE critism, I do find a little much, but meh, that's the internet I guess lol. 

I do agree with him, time to start showing results against good teams, big matches ahead. 

Game Day everyone! Giddy up!

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Ya but Davies always seems very genuine in his interviews, but maybe that's just me and the vibe I get from him. 

Also in every cycle I've followed there have been some not so much "professional" comments said to the media by players. Not going to derail this thread any further lol.

Also, I do agree with you, usually you'd always expect players to say the right thing anyways. 

Edited by apbsmith

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4 hours ago, gator said:

Sorry it was just a hypothetical question to @Shortdutchcanuck I didn't mean to stir up the sh*t on game day, I don't like how things came down but we have no choice but to support Herdman for now, I have said many times, it is all gonna come down to what we do in the games with the US, fail miserably and the heat turns up, succeed and he will lose many detractors (for a while)!

Just for the record, I did not mean for my response to sound surly or dismissive.  I do not feel the CSA handled the Zambrano file well at all. Having said that, I don't doubt that Herdman looked more appealing to the CSA than Zambrano, on a number of levels, most of them having to do with long term vision, organizational strengths etc.  I cannot say for sure, but I FEEL that a combo of Herdman as COO and Zambrano as coach might have been brilliant, but only IF the CSA could afford such a combo and IF the two men could get along in their respective roles.  

But for me, the jury is still out on Herdman, as well as it should be.  We've seen some significant progress, some learning, and some improvements all around. Much is yet to be done to shape this program so we get even better results in a sustained fashion, but I do not yet have proof that Herdman cannot get us there. I have concerns, but I cannot make a decision--in my mind--based on concerns alone. I need proof.  That will come. Far too early to sing his praises or call for his head on a platter.  We need to get more evidence. That starts with Cuba tonight, then the US next month. But I agree: The CSA cannot give him a free ride IF he shows he is not the right person for the job.

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2 hours ago, El Hombre said:

(Because I love to derail threads)

I present to you our 2004 starting lineup against Belize which consisted of:

2 - Bundesliga players
2 - MLS players
1 - English Premier Player
2 - English First Division players
1 - English Second Division player
1 - Austrian First Division player
1 - Swiss First Division player
1 - A-League player

That last one is a little dubious, especially when you have a Scottish Premier player on the bench that could've easily taken that position.  Also, subbing in was another English Premier player at the time.  On the bench, there are players from the Belgian First division, the English First division and our (soon-to-be) greatest player ever.

That qualifying campaign will continue to go down as the biggest opportunity missed.  As long as Herdman isn't making any of those mistakes, it's all gravy for me.

2004?  Maybe i am just getting old, but my memories of this cycle are in black and white. 

And we had 7MLS, 1Belgian, 1 Bunda, 1 Eng-champ, 1-Serbian 1st with subs SPL, 1-Port, 1  Belg last game. We should have had another SPL, Turk super lig and a Liga MX also on the bench.   We are getting back to former heights slowly but surely.  

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2 hours ago, narduch said:

Citing the players comments to the media is totally meaningless.

I wouldn't expect them to say anything else, no matter who is in charge.

Right... You can't tell if they're lying so discount everything they say. That seems fair.

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Well the players (before he was fired) seemed to have positive statements about Zambrano and supposedly he was a complete cluster F#ck.  Draw your own conclusions about how much merit to give these kinds of things.  KJ interviews me and I am not going to tell him exactly what I think of my Boss either, not when he can black ball me if he doesnt like what he hears.  

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Players will always say positivie things about the coach because he's the manager. The only players who have criticized openly the manager are usually old and don't see themselves with a future with the national team (Occéan, Brennan) 

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Of course players will only say positive things about a manager, you have to look at what they say. I don't remember positive comments about Floro or OZ to this degree, this frequency and seemingly unanimity. 

I have many reservations about Herdman's tactical abilities and some of the hokey motivational stuff but I do think one of the big positives of his tenure so far is how the players have talked about a culture, collectivity and purpose that they've never seen with the the NT program before. If he can instill a tactical plan that is passable with the help of experienced players and coaches like Jason DeVos and Mauro Biello and we have the mentality to win tough games in tough locations I think our talent will carry us through.

Sorry to keep this going, I just don't see the purpose of continual negativity. I don't like how we got here, but we're here so complaining about it won't do anything. We've had a long time to complain and like it our not he'll be around for a while, let's start being positive.

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9 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

Players will always say positivie things about the coach because he's the manager. The only players who have criticized openly the manager are usually old and don't see themselves with a future with the national team (Occéan, Brennan

I think you can add quite a few players to that 2008 team. JDG, Friend and DeRo also criticized Dale Mitchell before a crucial WCQ in San Pedro Sula.

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2 minutes ago, aloyol said:

I think you can add quite a few players to that 2008 team. JDG, Friend and DeRo also criticized Dale Mitchell before a crucial WCQ in San Pedro Sula.

Trying to find this, but IIRC think it was more on CSA that they attacked than on Mitchell. I was trying to look for it, but Brennan was the one who really criticized the coach. 

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4 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

 

I have many reservations about Herdman's tactical abilities and some of the hokey motivational stuff but I do think one of the big positives of his tenure so far is how the players have talked about a culture, collectivity and purpose that they've never seen with the the NT program before. If he can instill a tactical plan that is passable with the help of experienced players and coaches like Jason DeVos and Mauro Biello and we have the mentality to win tough games in tough locations I think our talent will carry us through.

 

JH and the players can talk about culture and identity all they want but some of us, fans, want to see it on the field. So far, we only had one true test and we failed badly against Haiti. I'm not saying JH isn't operating changes that will help in the future but that so far it's just talk and that I'm still skeptical since I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe it's working.

 

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4 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

Trying to find this, but IIRC think it was more on CSA that they attacked than on Mitchell. I was trying to look for it, but Brennan was the one who really criticized the coach. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

Trying to find this, but IIRC think it was more on CSA that they attacked than on Mitchell. I was trying to look for it, but Brennan was the one who really criticized the coach. 

DeRo took a deep **** on Mitchell as well, I recall he publically talke about his disbelief over his hiring after the U20 failure, this was after the Mexico loss I believe.

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3 minutes ago, aloyol said:

JH and the players can talk about culture and identity all they want but some of us, fans, want to see it on the field. So far, we only had one true test and we failed badly against Haiti. I'm not saying JH isn't operating changes that will help in the future but that so far it's just talk and that I'm still skeptical since I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe it's working.

 

I don't think you can see culture on the field. It's ingrained in the team in how they prepare, how they face adversity, how they overcome setbacks, etc... It doesn't always manifest itself in winning, that comes down to players executing in the moment. It does create an environment that fosters winning, not one that tries to "limit the damage."

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Yeah looks like it was after the team was eliminated though. So, they knew MItchell was a failure, but it was after we were eliminated.

Edited by Blackdude

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58 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

 

Sorry to keep this going, I just don't see the purpose of continual negativity. I don't like how we got here, but we're here so complaining about it won't do anything. We've had a long time to complain and like it our not he'll be around for a while, let's start being positive.

Its not negative, its the truth whether it was for OZ, Herdman, Floro or Hart.  The comments are meaningless.  My grampa always said everyone is your friend until times are tough.  At the end of a cycle lets see what guys say as it might actually be what they think.  Go Herdman, Go canada!!  

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5 hours ago, narduch said:

Citing the players comments to the media is totally meaningless.

I wouldn't expect them to say anything else, no matter who is in charge.

If players were unhappy they would probably just keep quiet, or be non commital if asked directly. I definitely think positive comments can be taken as a show of faith in the coach.

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I don't think comments and interviews are meaningless at all  but more depends on the context ( newspaper article/video interview).

In my profession people lie to me every day, so a comment in an in person interview compared to what I read in the newspaper, obviously I interpret differently.

Also most footy players are not very good actors, so the players that say "professional comments" in video,  on the balance of probability, obviously they are not going to bash the manager.... however in my eyes, I feel I am pretty good at telling if they are full of Sh!t or not. 

Here is the Davies clip, you tell me if he's "just saying it" and "doesn't mean it" and his comments mean nothing. 

8:25 mark about JH, massive change in body language from talking about Bayern's coach only few mins before.

 

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10 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I cant think straight yet, I have been holding my breath for about 30 minutes.  

I think my hands were on my head for about 3 minutes straight after the Henry red card.

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