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Herdman new head coach

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I think the CSA will stand behind Herdman for some time regardless of results, if he fails the CSA will not quickly admit their error I hiring him! I just hope he is successful and proves a lot of people including myself wrong!

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I will wait until bad things actually happen before I start succession planning.  At this point we may not have a lot of evidence of his amazing abilities when it comes to coaching the CMNT, but we also don't have evidence of any alleged incompetence.  I am still reserving judgement until we hit the hard tests in the GC and CNL.  At this point, scouting his replacement seems premature.  And even if it turns out that he is a bit of a snakeoil salesman, the reality is that so far he has sold some important people the snakeoil.  While other factors would be in play (the rise of Davies, the potential for a Canada-scale golden generation, WC2026, etc.) two significant young targets have been recruited under his watch.  And yes, maybe he could do this just as effectively in a GM role - but  we don't really have cause for complaint yet in terms of his role as head coach.   

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I haven't watched the video but lets be honest here, as far a coaches go, he's done nothing wrong until now. If they manage a point against French Guyana he'll have put the MNT in both Groups A of the Nations League and in the Gold Cup this year. That should be doable, a win would put them in the top 3 of qualification. After that, the games against better opponents will come. 

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32 minutes ago, shamrock said:

I haven't watched the video but lets be honest here, as far a coaches go, he's done nothing wrong until now. If they manage a point against French Guyana he'll have put the MNT in both Groups A of the Nations League and in the Gold Cup this year. That should be doable, a win would put them in the top 3 of qualification. After that, the games against better opponents will come. 

Correction he’s done really nothing as a coach. He’s coached against a New Zealand C team and against semi pro Caribbean teams with Canada’s A squad. It’s kinda funny Oz’s first game was against Scotland. I don’t understand why we won’t see any real games until the gold cup. Why is the CSA protecting Herdman so much ? 

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Who cares about that NZ squad? The important thing to remember is that Herdman, when coaching a men's national team, is undefeated when he plays in Spain!!!! Not many international coaches hold that distinction....

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Still judging Herdman at this point and to date he has done what has been asked of him. If we flunk out of the GC it would have to be an unmitigated disaster to fire him. I would think he'd get a second chance in the CNL in the Fall.

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21 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I thought he was selling a time share in Nuevo Vallarta.  In fact, I'm going there in a few weeks' time and I am anticipating getting this same spiel at the resort where I am staying.

Let us know if you not only get the same spiel at the resort where you are staying, but if you are getting it from the same person. Because if not Herdman, then who......?

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5 minutes ago, RS said:

Every time someone posts a video or audio clip of Herdman speaking, it leads to yet another discussion of when it would be appropriate for the CSA to fire him.

So bizarre.

Because he sounds like a ****** camp councillor  trying to convince everyone how wonderful he is, when he hasn’t won a damn thing yet. He should just shut up and win soccer games against real teams not some semi pro shop keepers. 

 

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7 minutes ago, RS said:

Every time someone posts a video or audio clip of Herdman speaking, it leads to yet another discussion of when it would be appropriate for the CSA to fire him.

So bizarre.

Videos of our MNT playing games (against decent opponents) would be way better to have that discussion but it seems not everyone agree with that....

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Just now, SpecialK said:

Because he sounds like a ****** camp councillor  trying to convince everyone how wonderful he is, when he hasn’t won a damn thing yet. He should just shut up and win soccer games against real teams not some semi pro shop keepers. 

 

This latest video was him was giving a talk at an OSA conference that he was invited to. What did you expect him to do there?

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7 minutes ago, RS said:

Every time someone posts a video or audio clip of Herdman speaking, it leads to yet another discussion of when it would be appropriate for the CSA to fire him.

So bizarre.

We just dont like the slimy speeches full of platitudes, hip coaching BUZZ words and pseudo "Tony Robbins" style motivation.   I wonder if the players do??  I find it hard to believe this kind of baloney has much effect on seasoned pros like Hutch, Arfield, Borjan et al.  I sure hope he is doing great things behind the scenes, ie making foundational changes to the "entire landscape" of CDN soccer.  And not just working on his lecture circuit act.  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Correction he’s done really nothing as a coach. He’s coached against a New Zealand C team and against semi pro Caribbean teams with Canada’s A squad. It’s kinda funny Oz’s first game was against Scotland. I don’t understand why we won’t see any real games until the gold cup. Why is the CSA protecting Herdman so much ? 

At the end of the day, a win is a win but I also think that we as fans should look at the quality of these games and interpret if we felt the expectations were met.  To me a 1-0 win away to St Kitts & Nevis was not good enough and there were times we do not look great or particularly coached well.  Some of the formations and player choices could be questioned as well (Davies).

If we are content with a 1-0 win over St Kitts with the quality we have, then we as fans have a massive problem.  Mediocrity is not good enough in my opinion.

It still has no merit to fire Herdman (we got the win) but to me that result and level of play was not good enough.  It sounds like many of us have ambitions to make the 2022 as a nation but won't even make if we are beating St Kitts by a score of 1-0.

There is still a long way to go and like I said a win, is a win.  But my expectations are much higher going into the Gold Cup.

By The Way - St Kitts has never even qualified for a Gold Cup.  They also have not qualified for the past several Caribbean Cups.

Edited by Corazon

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1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

We just dont like the slimy speeches full of platitudes, hip coaching BUZZ words and pseudo "Tony Robbins" style motivation.   I wonder if the players do??  I find it hard to believe this kind of baloney has much effect on seasoned pros like Hutch, Arfield, Borjan et al.  I sure hope he is doing great things behind the scenes, ie making foundational changes to the "entire landscape" of CDN soccer.  And not just working on his lecture circuit act.  

I do find it interesting that very few people here cared about Herdman's style until he became the men's coach.

Whether he finds success with the men or not, or whether he's even right for this particular team, the fact is that he has already found success elsewhere in international soccer. Yet I can read posts in this thread about how he's "done nothing" as a coach.

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Just now, RS said:

I do find it interesting that very few people here cared about Herdman's style until he became the men's coach.

Whether he finds success with the men or not, or whether he's even right for this particular team, the fact is that he has already found success elsewhere in international soccer. Yet I can read posts in this thread about how he's "done nothing" as a coach.

Women's soccer is much different than men's soccer.  It is also very important to note that although there is continual growth in women's international soccer, it has always been a competition with only the more developed nations.  Canada has always been one of the leaders in development particularly in women's sports.  The men's scene is a much different scene altogether.

Not taking away his accomplishments as a women's coach.  He was exceptional (it helps having Sinclair) but different game altogether.

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5 minutes ago, RS said:

This latest video was him was giving a talk at an OSA conference that he was invited to. What did you expect him to do there?

Have you watch his ted talks? 

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2 minutes ago, RS said:

I do find it interesting that very few people here cared about Herdman's style until he became the men's coach.

 

I never thought much about the Preacher since he was first hired for the women. 

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1 minute ago, RS said:

I do find it interesting that very few people here cared about Herdman's style until he became the men's coach.

Whether he finds success with the men or not, or whether he's even right for this particular team, the fact is that he has already found success elsewhere in international soccer. Yet I can read posts in this thread about how he's "done nothing" as a coach.

I recall he got a lot of criticism at the last world cup for wearing ridiculously tight shirts.

Does anyone else remember an article from a few years ago interviewing Victor Montagliani where he stated that Herdman was not being considered for the CMNT job because he was not qualified? 

 

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2 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Have you watch his ted talks? 

Again, TED talks are very specific in style. This OSA speech was very similar in format.

I'll turn your question back around on you. Have you watched his training sessions? Is there any reason other than the way he talks to the press and/or big audience that you seem to think he should be replaced immediately?

I'm not claiming to know if he's the one to lead Canada to new heights, but based on the objective data we have so far I just don't see how anyone can conclusively say he isn't.

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1 minute ago, BrennanFan said:

I recall he got a lot of criticism at the last world cup for wearing ridiculously tight shirts.

lol

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, aloyol said:

Videos of our MNT playing games (against decent opponents) would be way better to have that discussion but it seems not everyone agree with that....

This has been the problem for over a year now - we have very little to go on in terms of on-field play. Off-field recruitment has been very good, but means very little if we play very few games with very little in the way of preparation. We don't even know how effective the motivational aspects of Herdman as a coach has come in handy when the team faces adversity, because we haven't faced any adversity yet because we haven't really been challenged.

I'm not calling for him to be fired or even speculating on it, just that I'm in the "wait and see" camp, but am rather tired of being in that camp because of how our schedule has been the past 12 months.

Edited by Gian-Luca

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Just now, Gian-Luca said:

This has been the problem for over a year now - we have very little to go on in terms of on-field play. Off-field recruitment has been very good, but means very little if we play very few games with very little in the way of preparation. We don't even know how effective the motivational aspects of Herdman as a coach has come in handy when the team faces adversity, because we haven't faced any adversity yet because we haven't really been challenged.

I'm not calling for him to be fired or even speculating on it, just that I'm in the "wait and see" camp, but am rather tired of being in that camp of how our schedule has been the past 12 months.

This is all very fair criticism, but I suspect the lack of friendlies isn't on Herdman but rather higher up the food chain. Maybe that's why I'm more lenient on him that some others seem to be.

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27 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

We just dont like the slimy speeches full of platitudes, hip coaching BUZZ words and pseudo "Tony Robbins" style motivation.   I wonder if the players do??  I find it hard to believe this kind of baloney has much effect on seasoned pros like Hutch, Arfield, Borjan et al.  I sure hope he is doing great things behind the scenes, ie making foundational changes to the "entire landscape" of CDN soccer.  And not just working on his lecture circuit act.  

This is what I don't get. 

Why is Tony Robbins style motivation a negative? He is world renowned and countless people and businesses use this style to great success. This is a well documented fact.

Do people dislike it because it they view it as different than what passes for motivation in the traditional soccer world?

Just trying to understand this perspective, because it doesn't really make sense to me.

Thanks!

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