Herdman new head coach

[Vince193]

19 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

A ridiculously long time by the sounds of it. We may have just played our toughest match of 2018 and it was against a weakened NZ side. It was important to play and the match was really useful for bringing the likes of Millar, Godinho, Wotherspoon and (even though he didn't play) Cornelius into the senior team fold. But in terms of quality and where we stand all we really proved in that match is that, possibly we have more depth than NZ (given how many of our own players were also missing). Given that "do we have more depth than New Zealand" is probably about in about 782,423rd place in our list of burning questions of whether we can win Gold Cups and qualify (without hosting) World Cups, we should be looking to test ourselves against the better teams in the region. Beating Dominica and the US Virgin Islands is really a no-win situation which won't prove a thing - if we win, even by big scores, it's because we're expected to.

The Canadian media should actually be putting public pressure on the CSA to do more here but I haven't heard or seen any criticism in this regard.

Expecting the Canadian soccer media to do anything isn't realistic. most are too scared to rock  the boat. None have asked about why we aren't playing again until September.

[Keegan]

Because those in the media are all buddy buddy with the CSA. It’s bound to happen when anytime a reporter is present they’re pretty much adopted by the team.  Sid Sexeiro is our most outspoken person in media but he isn’t diehard enough to even realize what’s going on until a big story comes around. 

Guys like Squizz, Gavin etc are great guys but they have established relationships they put ahead of critical coverage.

[BearcatSA]

The early stages of Herdman's tenure is going to be wrapped in bubble-wrap.  The rubber won't hit the road until the 2019 GC and even then the spin will be a positive one regardless of the win/loss column.  I'd love to see us play a friendly against one of the sides heading to Russia just prior to the WC, even a lower echelon type, but I doubt that's going to happen.

[Fort York Redcoat1555362293]

Can't believe they wouldn't play more games before September. It's just a great chance to cap players and see some more of what we just saw and heard from Herdmans vision.

[Kent]

Of course I agree with everyone here that I want more games before September. However, I would point out that there is one wild card that could be an acceptable reason for not scheduling friendlies. FIFA ranking. This being a World Cup year, our ranking matters at some point this year. Exactly when is hard to know for sure, but probably the August rankings will be used for seeding World Cup Qualifying. Depending on how qualifying is done for 2022 we might be too far gone to positively affect change, but it is possible that a lack of friendlies could help our ranking. Does anybody that knows about ranking procedures better than me know/remember how many points we got for the Gold Cup draws vs Costa Rica and Honduras? According to FIFA.com our friendly win against New Zealand is worth 204 points, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Gold Cup draws were worth more points than that, but I don't know for sure. The points are averaged over the given time span, so if you have, say, a 400 point match in a tournament like the Gold Cup, winning a friendly (which is less valuable) for 200 points actually hurts your ranking, because (if those are your only two results) now your 400 point average is down to 300 points.

So yeah, does anybody know if we are in this kind of a situation where it is beneficial for us to not play friendlies until the 2022 World Cup Qualifying draw rankings are determined?

[Shway]

Damn @Kent, is that the new method we are resorting to? Less friendlies to help boost our rankings based on some random FIFA algorithm that won't help our on field play.

Ultimately I believe we all want more games... What I want to see on top of more games is playing multiple games in each international window.....wishful hoping, so ill start with more games. 

 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

15 hours ago, Kent said:

Of course I agree with everyone here that I want more games before September. However, I would point out that there is one wild card that could be an acceptable reason for not scheduling friendlies. FIFA ranking. This being a World Cup year, our ranking matters at some point this year. Exactly when is hard to know for sure, but probably the August rankings will be used for seeding World Cup Qualifying. Depending on how qualifying is done for 2022 we might be too far gone to positively affect change, but it is possible that a lack of friendlies could help our ranking. Does anybody that knows about ranking procedures better than me know/remember how many points we got for the Gold Cup draws vs Costa Rica and Honduras? According to FIFA.com our friendly win against New Zealand is worth 204 points, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Gold Cup draws were worth more points than that, but I don't know for sure. The points are averaged over the given time span, so if you have, say, a 400 point match in a tournament like the Gold Cup, winning a friendly (which is less valuable) for 200 points actually hurts your ranking, because (if those are your only two results) now your 400 point average is down to 300 points.

So yeah, does anybody know if we are in this kind of a situation where it is beneficial for us to not play friendlies until the 2022 World Cup Qualifying draw rankings are determined?

The whole logic of this post is based on imagining Canada losing its next friendlies. Which could very well be a CSA way of planning for a better, warmer and fuzzier future.

[Kent]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The whole logic of this post is based on imagining Canada losing its next friendlies. Which could very well be a CSA way of planning for a better, warmer and fuzzier future.

No, it's not based on that. Like I said in my post, I don't know how many points we were getting for our Gold Cup results. If our average points per game due to the Gold Cup results is higher than what we would get from winning friendlies, then the argument could be made that playing friendlies hurts our chances of a better draw.

So I don't know if it is or is not the case that friendly victories would hurt our ranking, but it is possible, depending on how many points we were getting for the draws against Costa Rica and Honduras. It would be much more likely if those draws had been wins (averaged out with the loss against Jamaica in the Gold Cup, the win against Jamaica in the friendly, and the loss against El Salvador in a friendly, and now the New Zealand win).

[Keegan]

I’d rather us be prepared for a tougher draw than not play and get the chance, not even a guarantee, of an easier draw.

why would any player commit to us? Liam Millar must be a saviour because him playing for us over England youth is a miracle considering he’d get 5x the matches and exposure. 

[Red and White]

I'm purely speculating, but I would imagine the reason for fewer friendlies is either financial or the CSA just not willing to put much effort into organizing - possibly because they haven't been asked to by Herdman. If it was about FIFA rankings, we could have scheduled some winnable friendlies instead of nothing.

What would be the costs of playing minnows in Nations League? Maybe we are saving up for that bill.

Having said that, we may still get a couple of friendlies right before Nations League. It's beyond stupid to go into those games cold and rusty, especially with a new coach and players who don't see each other often.

[Guest]

I can’t believe some people are actually considering the fifa rankings as a good reason to miss friendlies

[BearcatSA]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The whole logic of this post is based on imagining Canada losing its next friendlies. Which could very well be a CSA way of planning for a better, warmer and fuzzier future.

The 2019 Gold Cup press releases are already prepared and they'll be positive spins regardless of the results.

[Vince193]

Gavin Day making apologies for Canada not scheduling friendlies until the nations league in Sept on Soccer Today. He's on their payroll so it's not surprising.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Vince193

[Kent]

7 minutes ago, Vince193 said:

Gavin Day making apologies for Canada not scheduling friendlies until the nations league in Sept on Soccer Today. He's on their payroll so it's not surprising.

Did he give any rationale? Or just didn't criticize it?

[Vince193]

Just now, Kent said:

Did he give any rationale? Or just didn't criticize it?

Just said it's hard to schedule friendlies.

[apbsmith]

1 minute ago, Vince193 said:

Just said it's hard to schedule friendlies.

Yes, very hard?  Every country in the world wants to play games between now and the World Cup.... we are playing 0.

As sad as this sounds, maybe no one really wants to play us? :/ (face palm)..... of course no world cup team wants to play us but why not play a team on a back 2 back. IE: the teams second game after playing a world cup team? or I dunno FFS Nicaragua, DMR, Jamaica & Cuba are playing more games then us before September. 

Sorry Gavin, very very bad reporting and lack of criticism, if your actual quote says "HARD". 

Run a camp North of Toronto, play a nobody. Give the other federation 20K to try and make some back in ticket sales.  If it "costs too much", invite NA players only or run a "scrimmage" type game. It's honestly mind boggling, not putting anything together. Hope it changes.

[Ansem]

 

One of the important messages Herdman has communicated to his players is that they can’t be afraid to lose. He doesn’t want to see Canada simply “grinding it out” in games, as has long been the team’s modus operandi under previous coaches. Instead, the Englishman wants Canada to force the issue on the pitch, rather than simply responding to what their opponents do.

Veteran Canadian defender David Edgar added: “John has come in and set out his clear vision for the team. That’s massive for us a group; we have a clear vision and a distinct set of principles as players and men off the field. It’s almost a code of conduct, and I think it’s something we desperately needed.”

“Before guys were OK with, not to say they were OK with losing a game, but they [would say] ‘We had a chance, and it didn’t happen, but we were there.’ In sports, it’s not good enough – you have to win. Under John, mediocrity is not enough,” Osorio said.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Ansem

[Rheo]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

 

This is horrible.  Oso has been brainwashed and is saying good things.  He's now part of the CSA/Herdman conspiracy group

[Ansem]

I do think Zambrano did talk about that winning mentality/belief that Canada didn't have. Herdman most likely is doubling down on that and beating New Zealand without key players gave the guys more confidence and might have them buy even more what Herdman is telling them.

In my book, he deserves a chance. At worse, he would have done something with the pathway from youth level to CPL which was always the foundation to get our National team long lasting success.

[Kent]

From the sportsnet article.

"One of the first things Herdman did when he was hired was to reach out to the majority of the players on the men’s team. He either spoke to each them in person or on the phone in order to get their feedback, and their views on what has worked – and hasn’t worked – in past Canadian team training camps.

“It’s the first time that a [Canadian] coach has called me personally to talk about the team… That’s amazing. Players appreciated that. He wanted to get to know me, not only as a player but as a person,” Osorio said."

If this is true, and it wasn't an email, this changes everything.

[Rheo]

I know and agree just after the two months of the (in my opinion) excessive criticism and mocking of Herdman on here just waiting for the conspiracy theory to be thrown out here   I figure it's the either the CSA brainwashing players and media or replacing them with complicit pod people

[Ansem]

Post 90s Canada

 

Zambrano - Herdman era

Canada finding its lost fighting spirit again

 

Sorry, just made laugh

Edited March 27, 2018 by Ansem

[toontownman]

Osorio back in the fold getting love and games, now he comes out with suck up quotes.. big surprise..

I just kidding. Good interview.

1 minute ago, Kent said:

He either spoke to each them in person or on the phone

Does not compute...

2 minutes ago, Kent said:

If this is true, and it wasn't an email, this changes everything.

But what if it was both...

       

[Keegan]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

I do think Zambrano did talk about that winning mentality/belief that Canada didn't have. Herdman most likely is doubling down on that and beating New Zealand without key players gave the guys more confidence and might have them buy even more what Herdman is telling them.

In my book, he deserves a chance. At worse, he would have done something with the pathway from youth level to CPL which was always the foundation to get our National team long lasting success.

Does anyone else have a laugh reading player comments about coaches? It’s always the same thing.. I’m sure the coach after Herdman they’ll say that they never had a belief they could win until blah blah. Hart was mr positive, everyone said great things about floro and OZ too.. it’s just players being players! They’re gonna act like everything is amazing no matter who is coaching them.. if they don’t they’re stupid. 

[The Beaver]

14 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Does anyone else have a laugh reading player comments about coaches? It’s always the same thing.. I’m sure the coach after Herdman they’ll say that they never had a belief they could win until blah blah. Hart was mr positive, everyone said great things about floro and OZ too.. it’s just players being players! They’re gonna act like everything is amazing no matter who is coaching them.. if they don’t they’re stupid. 

Yes, but there is always plenty to read between the lines. Players are careful and diplomatic, especially Canadian players, but it is often what they do NOT say that is telling.  It is too early to determine if the players are truly excited about what Herdman is doing thus far, but it DOES sound like Herdman is approaching the gig in much the way one would expect, especially with reaching out to the players and building trust and soliciting feedback etc.  These are the tools of contemporary management applied to a football setting. Nothing surprising, since we expected Herdman to do this, but the question will be whether or not we see significant sustained results because of this approach.  I remain optimistic, but let's see how this all plays out.