Whitecaps Off Season 2017-2018

[Obinna]

6 hours ago, Grizzly said:

Decent signing but a bit underwhelming if he is a DP. Starter in Championship, sub for small EPL teams type player. 

Sounds like Arfield but a few years younger, although to be fair to Scotty he gets his fair share of starts in the EPL.

[The Beaver]

Robbo says they might add four to five players before start of season. None will be of the calibre of a Giovinco--the Caps do not have super deep pockets, of course--but I hope we can find a player or two who can bring cohesion to this squad.  None of these changes will mean anything unless this squad can find some chemistry and cohesion. It SEEMS as though Robbo is trying to address this, but I will reserve judgement until we are 10 or so games into the season. I still feel that we are missing the cohesive heart of this team. Let's see if Robbo can sign a couple of guy, who with some of the existing players, can create that heart.

[The Beaver]

Oh and yes but the big question will be How effective Reyna will be after everything that happened during the off season. He is SUPPOSED to be a critical piece to this team, but where will his head be over 30+ games?

[SpursFlu]

45 minutes ago, The Beaver said:

Robbo says they might add four to five players before start of season. None will be of the calibre of a Giovinco--the Caps do not have super deep pockets, of course--but I hope we can find a player or two who can bring cohesion to this squad.  None of these changes will mean anything unless this squad can find some chemistry and cohesion. It SEEMS as though Robbo is trying to address this, but I will reserve judgement until we are 10 or so games into the season. I still feel that we are missing the cohesive heart of this team. Let's see if Robbo can sign a couple of guy, who with some of the existing players, can create that heart.

The Whitecaps had the 8th highest payroll in the league last year. This is a commonly held opinion but definitely a little exaggerated 

[BearcatSA]

17 hours ago, The Beaver said:

Robbo says they might add four to five players before start of season. None will be of the calibre of a Giovinco--the Caps do not have super deep pockets, of course--but I hope we can find a player or two who can bring cohesion to this squad.  None of these changes will mean anything unless this squad can find some chemistry and cohesion. It SEEMS as though Robbo is trying to address this, but I will reserve judgement until we are 10 or so games into the season. I still feel that we are missing the cohesive heart of this team. Let's see if Robbo can sign a couple of guy, who with some of the existing players, can create that heart.

But that's part of his shtick.  If things aren't going well in the first half of the season, then the reason given will be that the lads haven't had enough time to gel.  But then the summer window will open and new guys will be brought in (like last season), and once again chemistry will be the excuse if the team fumbles along in an inconsistent fashion, teasing you with  top notch finishing in a road victory against a quality opponent in one match, and then following it up with a bedsh*tter at home against a lesser opponent.

16 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

The Whitecaps had the 8th highest payroll in the league last year. This is a commonly held opinion but definitely a little exaggerated 

There are some questionable expenditures on some contracts which the club can't off load.

[Grizzly]

14 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

How many MLS players dp or not could crack an epl lineup? Maybe a half dozen if that.

Are you serious? We aren't talking about a starter for Chelsea we are talking about a bench player for a small lower table EPL team. There are a lot of MLS players who could do that, almost every DP for one. Just off the top of my head in Montreal last year we had Piatti, Dzermailli, Ciman and Oyongo at that level or better and we were one of the worst teams in the league. There is a big gap between MLS and EPL but not because there are not several players on each MLS team that aren't at the level of Championship starter/EPL lower table sub. The gap is because the level drops off pretty quickly once you get to the second level of starters and let alone the subs.

I don't know a lot about Mutch other than what I have seen in highlights and it is possible he will fit in well with the Caps or has skills above what his on paper pedigree shows. He could be a good addition but at the same time I think a minimum level for a DP is someone at least at the level of a starter for a small EPL club and not a role player starter but a skilled starter. If Mutch is a high priced but non DP signing then he is probably a good signing and a good level for someone about 4th to 6th best player on the team. If he is a DP and expected to be one of the top 3 skilled players then I think it is a bit disappointing or at the very least risky though that is ignoring possible salary cap and/or restrictions on how much the owner is willing to spend.

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

5 hours ago, Grizzly said:

Are you serious? We aren't talking about a starter for Chelsea we are talking about a bench player for a small lower table EPL team. There are a lot of MLS players who could do that, almost every DP for one. Just off the top of my head in Montreal last year we had Piatti, Dzermailli, Ciman and Oyongo at that level or better and we were one of the worst teams in the league. There is a big gap between MLS and EPL but not because there are not several players on each MLS team that aren't at the level of Championship starter/EPL lower table sub. The gap is because the level drops off pretty quickly once you get to the second level of starters and let alone the subs.

I don't know a lot about Mutch other than what I have seen in highlights and it is possible he will fit in well with the Caps or has skills above what his on paper pedigree shows. He could be a good addition but at the same time I think a minimum level for a DP is someone at least at the level of a starter for a small EPL club and not a role player starter but a skilled starter. If Mutch is a high priced but non DP signing then he is probably a good signing and a good level for someone about 4th to 6th best player on the team. If he is a DP and expected to be one of the top 3 skilled players then I think it is a bit disappointing or at the very least risky though that is ignoring possible salary cap and/or restrictions on how much the owner is willing to spend.

There is a least one Designated Player that Mutch is better than. The problem is he also plays on the Caps... Mutch is definitely on the lower end of the DP table in terms of talent, but I do feel like he could be more effective than many other DPs. For instance Pirlo is getting old and slow, Dos Santos is lazy and ineffective now, and we all know how good Giles Barnes is... Hopefully Mutch brings cohesion to the midfield. If he can do that, I’ll be happy.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I'm surprised Grizz is weighing in on this EPL reject when the Caps have also been linked to Yohan Mollo. He was rotting on the bench at Fulham, but was apparently a top player for Krylia Sovetov before being bought by Zenit. I guess Mancini didn't rate him and out he went. Looks like another Alessandrini type. I'd expect a much bigger impact from someone like this in MLS.

[BearcatSA]

6 hours ago, Grizzly said:

The gap is because the level drops off pretty quickly once you get to the second level of starters and let alone the subs.

I think that is where the new infusion of TAM comes in:  to help build up the quality of role player/second level type.

[Gian-Luca]

2 hours ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

There is a least one Designated Player that Mutch is better than. The problem is he also plays on the Caps... Mutch is definitely on the lower end of the DP table in terms of talent, but I do feel like he could be more effective than many other DPs. For instance Pirlo is getting old and slow, Dos Santos is lazy and ineffective now, and we all know how good Giles Barnes is... Hopefully Mutch brings cohesion to the midfield. If he can do that, I’ll be happy.

 Isn’t Pirlo retired?

[The Beaver]

21 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

The Whitecaps had the 8th highest payroll in the league last year. This is a commonly held opinion but definitely a little exaggerated 

Massive difference between having the 8th highest payroll and having the cash to sign Gio, Bradley and Altidore!! The gap between the Caps and TFC, for instance, is huge in this regard.

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, The Beaver said:

Massive difference between having the 8th highest payroll and having the cash to sign Gio, Bradley and Altidore!! The gap between the Caps and TFC, for instance, is huge in this regard.

When you compare them to some perennially successful MLS franchises who paid less on payroll last year and the year before, then it is relevant, unless you want to discuss other factors that some may argue hinder the ability to get quality first line and role players for that 8th rated payroll. 

[CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE]

I have a great suggestion; Cristian Cueva who apparently wants out from his brasilerão squad São Paulo...Add to that that he'll have countryman Yordy to help him adjust to the squad... I'm sure this will complement very well for the Caps.. HEs an attacking midfielder btw

[The Beaver]

35 minutes ago, CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE said:

I have a great suggestion; Cristian Cueva who apparently wants out from his brasilerão squad São Paulo...Add to that that he'll have countryman Yordy to help him adjust to the squad... I'm sure this will complement very well for the Caps.. HEs an attacking midfielder btw

interesting!

[nolando]

Mutch Ado about Nothing, I'm afraid.

[Unnamed Trialist]

The Caps sign players in a way that, in another country, would arouse suspicions about someone taking a % cut on the deals. It seems they are more zealous about signing than actually building a coherent team. What is the idea Robbo has? Haven't a clue. How is he building on the playoff team he had last year, analyzing weakeness and strengths? He's not. What is his capacity to take good players and make them better? Pretty low.

As I say, if I saw a team in outside of MLS doing what Caps do, I would think someone in the FO, or some agent for the club, is scamming it.

[BearcatSA]

6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The Caps sign players in a way that, in another country, would arouse suspicions about someone taking a % cut on the deals. It seems they are more zealous about signing than actually building a coherent team. What is the idea Robbo has? Haven't a clue. How is he building on the playoff team he had last year, analyzing weakeness and strengths? He's not. What is his capacity to take good players and make them better? Pretty low.

As I say, if I saw a team in outside of MLS doing what Caps do, I would think someone in the FO, or some agent for the club, is scamming it.

Let's see what sticks.  That's the big picture plan behind player acquisition at this club.

[Unnamed Trialist]

11 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Let's see what sticks.  That's the big picture plan behind player acquisition at this club.

I think any team in an off-season has to do a proper analysis of the play quality, and the results, both.

Then look at what is solid and ensure you don't lose it. That may mean raising a contract, extending an option if the player agrees, and the like.

Then, look at the weaknesses, and go for direct improvements, letting players go early enough and signing as early as possible so they can do preseason with you. 

Then, when you have a core, talk about those guys who may not be starters always, but are going to back you up in key positions. 

As I see the Caps, they made a change with the keeper, for reasons I am not sure of, but I agree the Kiwi is solid and perhaps we needed a change. The two centre backs are solid. Definitely, you need cover. Keeping Edgar is part of that, then Doneil. Nerwinski did very well at RB, and you have to let Sheanon go, then you can promote Jake to starter and look for cover in the youth. At LB, De Jong started to shine, you think he is alright to replace Harvey. But we are missing cover for the outside backs still, you could always ask someone to fill in but that is not the point.

So basically, at the back we are okay. Do the Caps realize this? Do they not see that if we played possession and did not sit so deep and crammed up in the middle, we would reduce chances on our goal and have a better GAA? Alter your playing style and this defence is solid enough for MLS. 

Then the midfield. We have lost Laba, but even with him do not have a creative mid who can receive, turn and make the outlet pass. Tchani has atrocious passing skills. Teibert seems to have gotten worse. Ghazal is too much of a trotter. None of them is crisp and clean. Our new signing from Pars may help, I don't know enough. Maybe Efraín  Juarez. But if not we are very thin on ball skills in the middle, to assist the transition to attack, to keep it, to have a bit of control. And they really don't care too much. If we could have 3 DM we would, Robbo would be happy.

We''ve lost Bolaños and have not signed a similar player. Perhaps Reyna could come back and do that job. 

We've lost Montero and what we have to replace him is of a different nature, more target with Kamara than quick or tricky. Still, the plan is to be less mobile than ever, more static, and more rudimentary. If not, why sign Kei?

So basically the team is the same. And could reasonably get a similar result, make playoffs, get knocked out after a round. What would really boost the Caps right now? IMO, players to help develop an attack through passing forward in possession, with good decision-making skills on the pitch. To not be in a situation like vs. Seattle away in playoffs, where needing a goal, we were unable to even shoot on the net. That was embarrassing, and it is not being addressed. Because if they would, you would be talking about a Conference final, and that would be a step forward.

[SpursFlu]

On 03/02/2018 at 1:34 AM, Grizzly said:

Are you serious? We aren't talking about a starter for Chelsea we are talking about a bench player for a small lower table EPL team. There are a lot of MLS players who could do that, almost every DP for one. Just off the top of my head in Montreal last year we had Piatti, Dzermailli, Ciman and Oyongo at that level or better and we were one of the worst teams in the league. There is a big gap between MLS and EPL but not because there are not several players on each MLS team that aren't at the level of Championship starter/EPL lower table sub. The gap is because the level drops off pretty quickly once you get to the second level of starters and let alone the subs.

I don't know a lot about Mutch other than what I have seen in highlights and it is possible he will fit in well with the Caps or has skills above what his on paper pedigree shows. He could be a good addition but at the same time I think a minimum level for a DP is someone at least at the level of a starter for a small EPL club and not a role player starter but a skilled starter. If Mutch is a high priced but non DP signing then he is probably a good signing and a good level for someone about 4th to 6th best player on the team. If he is a DP and expected to be one of the top 3 skilled players then I think it is a bit disappointing or at the very least risky though that is ignoring possible salary cap and/or restrictions on how much the owner is willing to spend.

I just disagree with you. Piatti and Ciman 4 yrs ago maybe but not now. To walk in to an epl starting 18 right now. Not when they were 27, I dont see many mls players that would get that opportunity. Or truthfully speaking, just from a dollars and cents perspective, they would

 

Mutch won' be a high priced dp because that's not how the Caps operate. He'll be like 600k - 900k (who knows) throw some tam in there and there you go, another good midfielder for the Whitecaps 

[saladroit]

I’d be shocked if Mutch wasn’t a discretionary TAM player

[Grizzly]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

I just disagree with you. Piatti and Ciman 4 yrs ago maybe but not now. To walk in to an epl starting 18 right now. Not when they were 27, I dont see many mls players that would get that opportunity. Or truthfully speaking, just from a dollars and cents perspective, they would

You are changing the parameters here. Yes EPL teams might not sign guys like Piatti and Ciman now because of their age and they would want players on the ascending not descending side of their career but that is a big difference from saying that Piatti and Ciman do not currently have the level of play to crack a lower table EPL starting 18. Both of them currently have that ability though how many more years that will be true is debatable. 

[The Beaver]

10 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think any team in an off-season has to do a proper analysis of the play quality, and the results, both.

Then look at what is solid and ensure you don't lose it. That may mean raising a contract, extending an option if the player agrees, and the like.

Then, look at the weaknesses, and go for direct improvements, letting players go early enough and signing as early as possible so they can do preseason with you. 

Then, when you have a core, talk about those guys who may not be starters always, but are going to back you up in key positions. 

As I see the Caps, they made a change with the keeper, for reasons I am not sure of, but I agree the Kiwi is solid and perhaps we needed a change. The two centre backs are solid. Definitely, you need cover. Keeping Edgar is part of that, then Doneil. Nerwinski did very well at RB, and you have to let Sheanon go, then you can promote Jake to starter and look for cover in the youth. At LB, De Jong started to shine, you think he is alright to replace Harvey. But we are missing cover for the outside backs still, you could always ask someone to fill in but that is not the point.

So basically, at the back we are okay. Do the Caps realize this? Do they not see that if we played possession and did not sit so deep and crammed up in the middle, we would reduce chances on our goal and have a better GAA? Alter your playing style and this defence is solid enough for MLS. 

Then the midfield. We have lost Laba, but even with him do not have a creative mid who can receive, turn and make the outlet pass. Tchani has atrocious passing skills. Teibert seems to have gotten worse. Ghazal is too much of a trotter. None of them is crisp and clean. Our new signing from Pars may help, I don't know enough. Maybe Efraín  Juarez. But if not we are very thin on ball skills in the middle, to assist the transition to attack, to keep it, to have a bit of control. And they really don't care too much. If we could have 3 DM we would, Robbo would be happy.

We''ve lost Bolaños and have not signed a similar player. Perhaps Reyna could come back and do that job. 

We've lost Montero and what we have to replace him is of a different nature, more target with Kamara than quick or tricky. Still, the plan is to be less mobile than ever, more static, and more rudimentary. If not, why sign Kei?

So basically the team is the same. And could reasonably get a similar result, make playoffs, get knocked out after a round. What would really boost the Caps right now? IMO, players to help develop an attack through passing forward in possession, with good decision-making skills on the pitch. To not be in a situation like vs. Seattle away in playoffs, where needing a goal, we were unable to even shoot on the net. That was embarrassing, and it is not being addressed. Because if they would, you would be talking about a Conference final, and that would be a step forward.

Yup, I totally agree. We need a general in the middle like Hutch who is very capable defensively but who can link up play nicely, who can pass and create. Or a guy like Ledeiro, more of an offensive engine, who can help link play but unlock the back line of opposing teams. Reyna might become this guy, but it sure would be great to have somebody to boss the midfield.

[BradMack]

9 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I just disagree with you. Piatti and Ciman 4 yrs ago maybe but not now. To walk in to an epl starting 18 right now. Not when they were 27, I dont see many mls players that would get that opportunity. Or truthfully speaking, just from a dollars and cents perspective, they would

 

Mutch won' be a high priced dp because that's not how the Caps operate. He'll be like 600k - 900k (who knows) throw some tam in there and there you go, another good midfielder for the Whitecaps 

 

7 hours ago, Grizzly said:

You are changing the parameters here. Yes EPL teams might not sign guys like Piatti and Ciman now because of their age and they would want players on the ascending not descending side of their career but that is a big difference from saying that Piatti and Ciman do not currently have the level of play to crack a lower table EPL starting 18. Both of them currently have that ability though how many more years that will be true is debatable. 

Not to mention both have been in the league for a number of years now and as such were not their current ages when they were signed as DPs. Id argue Giovinco, Bradley, Vazquez and GvdW would make it in the Prem, and Altidore might have done better if he was not misused at Sunderland which is just a horrible club. Ciman and Piatti seem pretty obvious... The Atlanta Trio are constantly getting offers from big clubs... There are a lot of players who would cut it if given the chance. Im sure any of the bottom half teams would nab David Villa in a heartbeat at this point in the season regardless of his age. But that being said as a TAM level signing I think this is a good player. The problem is that he just doesn't seem like the type of player the 'Caps really need at this point.

[BearcatSA]

14 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So basically, at the back we are okay. Do the Caps realize this? Do they not see that if we played possession and did not sit so deep and crammed up in the middle, we would reduce chances on our goal and have a better GAA? Alter your playing style and this defence is solid enough for MLS. 

This.  Regardless of back line personnel, this team concedes far too many good scoring opportunities for me to conclude that this is a really good defensive team.  They face the music while opponents call the tune, especially too often at home.  That catches up to you sooner than later in the results columns.

What I liked more about them this past year was that there was better work rate from more of the guys in front of the back line, with more of a commitment to the defensive play off the ball.  For instance, Shea really improved in that department late in the season whereas earlier in the season he switched "off" in his defensive diligence leading to problems.

[saladroit]

Caps opening preseason with a 4-0 victory over J League side Hokkaido Consadole Sapporo.

Goals from Parker (x2), Kamara, and Ibini. Assists from Techera, Mezquida, Shea, and Davies.

Worth mentioning 15 year old Whitecaps Residency player Simon Colyn had a part in Ibini's goal. One to watch.