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Can someone start an online petition to make the Caps release Davies?


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Sadly, with the 18 yr requirement to move him, staying with the Caps could have a significant impact on his development, and thus on our national team going forward.  He is a kid with great raw talent and amazing athleticism - and at only 16 his potential cieling is probably higher than any other player I have seen in my time following our program. Yet somehow a rule designed to prevent exploitation of youth players will likely (and ironically) limit his ability to fully exploit that potential.  

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We'll trade you Ben Spencer and a Supplemental pick...

But seriously, Davies is stagnating in Vancouver. Carl Robinson is a dinosaur with a nice British accent that masks the fact he has no idea how to coach ball possession. Had Davies stayed in Edmonton and signed with FCE it would have been the same with Colin Miller. So what do you do? Now that he's cap-tied send him out on loan to a Liberian league team?

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It sure seems that way.  Maybe this is the couch talking, I don't know.  He really seems exceptional. 

Massively increase the size of our youth national programs?  But we seem to recycle the same kind of coaches through there too. 

 

 

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Can't tell if this thread is sarcastic or not.  The caps gave him a ton of opportunities and while they don't have stars they definitely have enough depth to keep him on the bench if he's not producing. 

My issue is that he didn't get sent to USL once all season.  Why not? He's 16 let him develop and star.  It's all about balance.  He still needs to develop some skills that he's probably afraid to use at the first team level... ie his right foot, striking and dribbling.  He's starred for the first team purely on athleticism for a year now and hasn't developed but that's what's gonna happen when your role is to come in and use your athleticism against tired defenders. 

I think the caps really need an OZ type coach.  They are always full of South/Central American players but never have a coach that is suited to their style.

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I've heard it discussed on the Footy Soldiers pod (although not lately that I can remember) and I seem to remember the balance they want for him is continuing his education while growing as a soccer player. They've mentioned how OZ has been in contact with them in discussing the development plan for him. 

My assumption is that the somewhat kid gloves approach is to make sure he doesn't get too much thrown at him too soon, although it could be too late for that with the hype the CSA gave him in the Gold Cup announcement/push.  

This being said however developmental talk is not my specialty.  Just trying to apply what I see as common sense from what I do know and have read.

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3 hours ago, shermanator said:

Don't forget that Davies is shit because is has 0 goals, 1 assist and a fuck load of giveaways. He's a bum!

/harrycoyster

I've never said he's shit, but the people going "hur dur, WHITECAPS NEED START DAVIES!!!1!" are idiots. He's been bad for the Caps all year...as @Unnamed Trialist has said, based on performance he deserves to be with the USL team. He's not due to his nationality.

Regardless of whether you think the problem is the organization, coach, or player....what's the point of starting a player that is a liability in Robinson's system week in week out? He needs to prove himself from the bench.

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11 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

I've never said he's shit, but the people going "hur dur, WHITECAPS NEED START DAVIES!!!1!" are idiots. He's been bad for the Caps all year...as @Unnamed Trialist has said, based on performance he deserves to be with the USL team. He's not due to his nationality.

Regardless of whether you think the problem is the organization, coach, or player....what's the point of starting a player that is a liability in Robinson's system week in week out? He needs to prove himself from the bench.

I think, with Whitecaps, the question is not whether you are bad or not.

The key question is whether you can get past the assinine coaching and make the guy look good even when he has no clue what he's doing.

You have to have a lot of quality as a player to ensure your coach is not shown up by your play when he adds nothing to it.

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4 hours ago, shermanator said:

Don't forget that Davies is shit because is has 0 goals, 1 assist and a fuck load of giveaways. He's a bum!

/harrycoyster

This whole dump on the whitecaps bovine scatology is getting pretty stupid. According to the11.ca he has 7 minutes less than Osorio. So where is the "FREE OSORIO" thread? 

While I would very much like to see Davies play more he has to EARN IT. Something you all seem to be forgetting. Continually! He's far from a bum but he is far from the player you all think he is. What development opportunity will he get elsewhere that he won't in Vancouver? 

I seriously think he has the potential to be a Yordy Reyna type mid but he has a ton to learn and his judgement is lacking. That will develop but do you really think he would walk in and start on TFC or Impact? Where exactly do you think he will get more playing time and/or better development? Don't even think about NASL or any other D2 setup. He is already beyond that.

So lets look at how he did last night (and maybe you all want to start tracking this stuff because then you will understand the non-linear nature of player development).

1 shot off target.  His shots on frame (2017) is pretty average (15 shots, 2 on target). 
7/8 passes complete. Nice and 4 were forward and 4 were back passes.
2 dribbles good, 3 dribbles lost. This is the one that hurts the most because it is a recurring theme. 

By the way Yordy had the same dribble stats last night which is one of the reasons we did so poorly. For him it was an off night not a recurring theme. 

If you think he will develop better somewhere else then that is your opinion but I go over these stats every time he plays. He gets "The good, the bad and the ugly" performances in roughly those percentages. 

Playing more doesn't lead to improved judgement. Improving your judgement leads to more playing.

Better judgement comes from going over game films, recognising patterns, reaction to those patterns in games. In a game you don't get to analyse because things are happening too fast. It has to be reaction. His judgement about when to dribble, pass and shoot will improve (I'm certain of it). 

To blame the lack of development or playing time for a kid who just turned 17 yesterday and has completed his first pro season with 1000+ minutes of first team action on the Whitecaps is just disingenuous at best. 

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5 hours ago, Keegan said:

I think the caps really need an OZ type coach.  They are always full of South/Central American players but never have a coach that is suited to their style.

That should be in the running for observation / comment of the year! 

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50 minutes ago, TRM said:

This whole dump on the whitecaps bovine scatology is getting pretty stupid. According to the11.ca he has 7 minutes less than Osorio. So where is the "FREE OSORIO" thread? 

While I would very much like to see Davies play more he has to EARN IT. Something you all seem to be forgetting. Continually! He's far from a bum but he is far from the player you all think he is. What development opportunity will he get elsewhere that he won't in Vancouver? 

I seriously think he has the potential to be a Yordy Reyna type mid but he has a ton to learn and his judgement is lacking. That will develop but do you really think he would walk in and start on TFC or Impact? Where exactly do you think he will get more playing time and/or better development? Don't even think about NASL or any other D2 setup. He is already beyond that.

So lets look at how he did last night (and maybe you all want to start tracking this stuff because then you will understand the non-linear nature of player development).

1 shot off target.  His shots on frame (2017) is pretty average (15 shots, 2 on target). 
7/8 passes complete. Nice and 4 were forward and 4 were back passes.
2 dribbles good, 3 dribbles lost. This is the one that hurts the most because it is a recurring theme. 

By the way Yordy had the same dribble stats last night which is one of the reasons we did so poorly. For him it was an off night not a recurring theme. 

If you think he will develop better somewhere else then that is your opinion but I go over these stats every time he plays. He gets "The good, the bad and the ugly" performances in roughly those percentages. 

Playing more doesn't lead to improved judgement. Improving your judgement leads to more playing.

Better judgement comes from going over game films, recognising patterns, reaction to those patterns in games. In a game you don't get to analyse because things are happening too fast. It has to be reaction. His judgement about when to dribble, pass and shoot will improve (I'm certain of it). 

To blame the lack of development or playing time for a kid who just turned 17 yesterday and has completed his first pro season with 1000+ minutes of first team action on the Whitecaps is just disingenuous at best. 

There have been calls on here for Osorio's to leave TFC. I don't know if Davies would get a lot of better development with TFC or the Impact but the Caps currently seem to be the worst of the three teams in developing players. The problem for a lot of us is that we see a very talented Canadian and want him to be trained by a top notch coach and feel like he is not getting very high level coaching with the Caps and Robinson. In his case it makes me wish we were back in the old days when under 18 could go over to Europe and the Caps were farming out their young players to Germany to teams who actually knew how to train young players.

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1 hour ago, TRM said:

This whole dump on the whitecaps bovine scatology is getting pretty stupid. According to the11.ca he has 7 minutes less than Osorio. So where is the "FREE OSORIO" thread? 

While I would very much like to see Davies play more he has to EARN IT. Something you all seem to be forgetting. Continually! He's far from a bum but he is far from the player you all think he is. What development opportunity will he get elsewhere that he won't in Vancouver? 

I seriously think he has the potential to be a Yordy Reyna type mid but he has a ton to learn and his judgement is lacking. That will develop but do you really think he would walk in and start on TFC or Impact? Where exactly do you think he will get more playing time and/or better development? Don't even think about NASL or any other D2 setup. He is already beyond that.

So lets look at how he did last night (and maybe you all want to start tracking this stuff because then you will understand the non-linear nature of player development).

1 shot off target.  His shots on frame (2017) is pretty average (15 shots, 2 on target). 
7/8 passes complete. Nice and 4 were forward and 4 were back passes.
2 dribbles good, 3 dribbles lost. This is the one that hurts the most because it is a recurring theme. 

By the way Yordy had the same dribble stats last night which is one of the reasons we did so poorly. For him it was an off night not a recurring theme. 

If you think he will develop better somewhere else then that is your opinion but I go over these stats every time he plays. He gets "The good, the bad and the ugly" performances in roughly those percentages. 

Playing more doesn't lead to improved judgement. Improving your judgement leads to more playing.

Better judgement comes from going over game films, recognising patterns, reaction to those patterns in games. In a game you don't get to analyse because things are happening too fast. It has to be reaction. His judgement about when to dribble, pass and shoot will improve (I'm certain of it). 

To blame the lack of development or playing time for a kid who just turned 17 yesterday and has completed his first pro season with 1000+ minutes of first team action on the Whitecaps is just disingenuous at best. 

Get out of here with your "reason" and "logic". 

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1 hour ago, TRM said:

This whole dump on the whitecaps bovine scatology is getting pretty stupid. According to the11.ca he has 7 minutes less than Osorio. So where is the "FREE OSORIO" thread? 

While I would very much like to see Davies play more he has to EARN IT. Something you all seem to be forgetting. Continually! He's far from a bum but he is far from the player you all think he is. What development opportunity will he get elsewhere that he won't in Vancouver? 

I seriously think he has the potential to be a Yordy Reyna type mid but he has a ton to learn and his judgement is lacking. That will develop but do you really think he would walk in and start on TFC or Impact? Where exactly do you think he will get more playing time and/or better development? Don't even think about NASL or any other D2 setup. He is already beyond that.

So lets look at how he did last night (and maybe you all want to start tracking this stuff because then you will understand the non-linear nature of player development).

1 shot off target.  His shots on frame (2017) is pretty average (15 shots, 2 on target). 
7/8 passes complete. Nice and 4 were forward and 4 were back passes.
2 dribbles good, 3 dribbles lost. This is the one that hurts the most because it is a recurring theme. 

By the way Yordy had the same dribble stats last night which is one of the reasons we did so poorly. For him it was an off night not a recurring theme. 

If you think he will develop better somewhere else then that is your opinion but I go over these stats every time he plays. He gets "The good, the bad and the ugly" performances in roughly those percentages. 

Playing more doesn't lead to improved judgement. Improving your judgement leads to more playing.

Better judgement comes from going over game films, recognising patterns, reaction to those patterns in games. In a game you don't get to analyse because things are happening too fast. It has to be reaction. His judgement about when to dribble, pass and shoot will improve (I'm certain of it). 

To blame the lack of development or playing time for a kid who just turned 17 yesterday and has completed his first pro season with 1000+ minutes of first team action on the Whitecaps is just disingenuous at best. 

Honestly, I'm just tired of certain posters ragging on his play after every small number of minutes he gets, which happened again last night. If you look at my post below from earlier this week (which is a more serious post on Davies development), I've even defended the Whitecaps hesitancy to play Davies during the playoffs.

That said, there is a growing trend of highly promising Canadian prospects that are plateauing and / or regressing under Robinson. All in the name of mediocre results. As national team supporters, we have a big interest in these raw talents blossoming into star players. Unless you want to continue to sit there every 4 years at Barcelona tavern pissed off because we can't win when it matters. I think we all can agree we saw a pretty special player at the Gold Cup, and for that to be the highlight of his career wearing the Maple Leaf would be a shame.

Either the Whitecaps are struggling in identifying talent that they can develop into MLS starters, or they are struggling to develop talent once they bring them into their academy. To me, it's starting to look like the latter. I damn sure do not want to see the same happen to Davies, but unfortunately I am already starting to see his talents reigned in, at least offensively.

Also, you can say the word bullshit, you know. ;)

 

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2 hours ago, TRM said:

This whole dump on the whitecaps bovine scatology is getting pretty stupid. According to the11.ca he has 7 minutes less than Osorio. So where is the "FREE OSORIO" thread? 

While I would very much like to see Davies play more he has to EARN IT. Something you all seem to be forgetting. Continually! He's far from a bum but he is far from the player you all think he is. What development opportunity will he get elsewhere that he won't in Vancouver? 

I seriously think he has the potential to be a Yordy Reyna type mid but he has a ton to learn and his judgement is lacking. That will develop but do you really think he would walk in and start on TFC or Impact? Where exactly do you think he will get more playing time and/or better development? Don't even think about NASL or any other D2 setup. He is already beyond that.

So lets look at how he did last night (and maybe you all want to start tracking this stuff because then you will understand the non-linear nature of player development).

1 shot off target.  His shots on frame (2017) is pretty average (15 shots, 2 on target). 
7/8 passes complete. Nice and 4 were forward and 4 were back passes.
2 dribbles good, 3 dribbles lost. This is the one that hurts the most because it is a recurring theme. 

By the way Yordy had the same dribble stats last night which is one of the reasons we did so poorly. For him it was an off night not a recurring theme. 

If you think he will develop better somewhere else then that is your opinion but I go over these stats every time he plays. He gets "The good, the bad and the ugly" performances in roughly those percentages. 

Playing more doesn't lead to improved judgement. Improving your judgement leads to more playing.

Better judgement comes from going over game films, recognising patterns, reaction to those patterns in games. In a game you don't get to analyse because things are happening too fast. It has to be reaction. His judgement about when to dribble, pass and shoot will improve (I'm certain of it). 

To blame the lack of development or playing time for a kid who just turned 17 yesterday and has completed his first pro season with 1000+ minutes of first team action on the Whitecaps is just disingenuous at best. 

 

I agree, I don't know where he would go where it would make a difference. 

I think a lot of this is born from the feeling that people want to see the three MLS teams contributing somehow to the greater good.  They just don't really seem to be, at least not as quickly as people had hoped despite some hefty investments in academy infrastructure ect...   Ex players just don't automatically make good development coaches. 

People probably see less upside in Osario than perhaps what Davies could be realistically or not.  It feels like there is more hope there somehow.

 

 

 

 

 

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Maybe the petition should be renamed "Get rid of Robbo"??  :)

Our MNT coach seems to like the way they are bringing Davies along but maybe he was just being nice? Who knows. Maybe Davies will be the "anti-Friend" and be great for country and so-so for club? Time will tell. 

It is frustrating as I expected all 3 MLS academies to be producing a lot more MLS players by now. I was expecting at least 1 starter and 3 or 4 in the game day 18 by now. Maybe hire SigmaFC's staff. 

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Think people need to bear in mind that he is still only 17. Alex Ferguson has sometimes said that one of his biggest regrets as a manager was bringing on young players like Eric Black and Neale Cooper too fast in terms of making them first team regulars with Aberdeen because they burned out later in their careers and never reached the peaks of success they might have when most players should be hitting their prime in their late 20s. I suspect Carl Robinson will have been influenced by that sort of thing. 

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