Ottawa CPL Club

[Ottawafan74]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

And despite this being complete BS, and despite Melnyk having huge issues with the Sens, it would still be preferable to the status quo. 

The marriage between Fury and CPL will happen, it’s just a matter of time. Whatever your thoughts on OSEG JDG or the Fury and their decision, they will not compare to the nightmare Eugene would bring to the team, the city and the league. Absolutely doomed to fail on every angle of that were to happen. 

We don’t have to worry about an AFJ. 

[dyslexic nam]

19 minutes ago, Ottawafan74 said:

The marriage between Fury and CPL will happen, it’s just a matter of time. Whatever your thoughts on OSEG JDG or the Fury and their decision, they will not compare to the nightmare Eugene would bring to the team, the city and the league. Absolutely doomed to fail on every angle of that were to happen. 

We don’t have to worry about an AFJ. 

I (sincerely) hope it comes to pass that OSEG does an about face, starts viewing membership in CPL as a great opportunity, and gets fully on board in terms of joining and promoting the league.  But nothing whatsoever that I have seen to date suggests this is the case - and pretty much everything I have read here and elsewhere runs counter to this idea.

 

[Ansem]

43 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I would personally disagree.  I’d think I’d have to strongly think about not buying tickets if he owned a CPL team in Ottawa.

Problem with Melnyk is that he can't seem to be a "silent" investor, like Saputo was but a thousand times worse. If he could just front the money and let the president of the team manage everything, that would be different. Being within a group of ownership would help as well instead of being the sole owner.

Despite what we think of him, there aren't that many billionaires in Ottawa interested in sports unfortunately and the man had previous MLS aspirations.

 

[Ansem]

47 minutes ago, Ottawafan74 said:

The marriage between Fury and CPL will happen, it’s just a matter of time. Whatever your thoughts on OSEG JDG or the Fury and their decision, they will not compare to the nightmare Eugene would bring to the team, the city and the league. Absolutely doomed to fail on every angle of that were to happen. 

I predict a "rebrand" if it's OSEG, having lost all leverage, they will have to do what the league wants to get in. From a marketing point of you, CPL will want to distance itself as much as possible from any ties to the existing USL. 

A Melnyk scenario is a disaster if he's the sole owner and keep interfering in team's affairs. If he could do what Saputo finally did this year, staying out of soccer operations completely and just be the money, his billions would be welcome... There aren't tons of billionaires interested in sports in Ottawa unfortunately

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

Problem with Melnyk is that he can't seem to be a "silent" investor, like Saputo was but a thousand times worse. If he could just front the money and let the president of the team manage everything, that would be different. Being within a group of ownership would help as well instead of being the sole owner.

Despite what we think of him, there aren't that many billionaires in Ottawa interested in sports unfortunately and the man had previous MLS aspirations.

 

Yeah, he wanted to put an MLS team in Kanata.  A CPL team out there would die in 2-3 years

[Ottawafan74]

5 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Yeah, he wanted to put an MLS team in Kanata.  A CPL team out there would die in 2-3 years

Eugene doesn’t have the cash to buy them. Nor does he have the money to operate them. He could take money out of the Sens to do it but they are his sole source of income. He can barely make his debt/interest payments.

Plus his good will is long gone. Nobody at the city would give him anything more than a free lunch, so money for a stadium/field is out of the question. And fans can’t stand him. 

[Initial B]

I was at a meeting on the weekend in Ottawa where Anthony Totera was giving a talk about CPL to a bunch of parents and their kids. When asked about the Fury, he said he couldn't talk about *anything* regarding them because the situation was still too fresh and hot. Maybe in a couple of years he said. My gut feel is that the Fury would be okay with joining the CPL in a year or two, but the CPL may not be. The tension between the two viewpoints feels... weird and odd. I can't explain it.

[BuzzAndSting]

6 minutes ago, Initial B said:

I was at a meeting on the weekend in Ottawa where Anthony Totera was giving a talk about CPL to a bunch of parents and their kids. When asked about the Fury, he said he couldn't talk about *anything* regarding them because the situation was still too fresh and hot. Maybe in a couple of years he said. My gut feel is that the Fury would be okay with joining the CPL in a year or two, but the CPL may not be. The tension between the two viewpoints feels... weird and odd. I can't explain it.

I heard about this event, what was the context? Was he just promoting the idea of the CPL or was he just there as an appearance to talk soccer in general? If he's promoting the league I find it odd that they would schedule a talk with one club. Can you elaborate on what he talked about?

[Red and White]

2 hours ago, Initial B said:

I was at a meeting on the weekend in Ottawa where Anthony Totera was giving a talk about CPL to a bunch of parents and their kids. When asked about the Fury, he said he couldn't talk about *anything* regarding them because the situation was still too fresh and hot. Maybe in a couple of years he said. My gut feel is that the Fury would be okay with joining the CPL in a year or two, but the CPL may not be. The tension between the two viewpoints feels... weird and odd. I can't explain it.

From what I've seen purely as a fan looking from the outside, it looks to me that CPL and Fury were presented to each other poorly from the beginning. Fury ownership has little experience with soccer and weren't expecting all this when they took an NASL team years ago. I'm sure switching leagues constantly isn't something they were expecting to deal with. I doubt they did serious research into CPL when it was little more than a concept up to when they were approached.

It's purely business to OSEG. If CPL looks solid in its inaugural year, you'll see them soften up and gain interest. It's in CPL's best interest to eventually bring them in, whether the relationship is friendly or just pure business. OSEG have the best stadium and location in the city - setting up competition to this less ideal to just bringing them on board.

Its correct that the situation is still relatively 'fresh and hot'. CPL should just start its season for now and do everything to remove doubt that it is a better league than USL - specifically from a money making perspective.

[LAK]

1 minute ago, Red and White said:

From what I've seen purely as a fan looking from the outside, it looks to me that CPL and Fury were presented to each other poorly from the beginning. Fury ownership has little experience with soccer and weren't expecting all this when they took an NASL team years ago. I'm sure switching leagues constantly isn't something they were expecting to deal with. I doubt they did serious research into CPL when it was little more than a concept up to when they were approached.

It's purely business to OSEG. If CPL looks solid in its inaugural year, you'll see them soften up and gain interest. It's in CPL's best interest to eventually bring them in, whether the relationship is friendly or just pure business. OSEG have the best stadium and location in the city - setting up competition to this less ideal to just bringing them on board.

Its correct that the situation is still relatively 'fresh and hot'. CPL should just start its season for now and do everything to remove doubt that it is a better league than USL - specifically from a money making perspective.

OSEG would have had dealings with Bob Young and Winnipeg Blue Bombers before, so I'm surprised they didn't convince them of the benefits to switching. As the division one league in Canada it's already had so much more to offer. With every day that goes by and the deals that announced, OSEG must see already that USL would never be able to compete with that.

Also, as a side note. Bob Young money involved in Halifax as well. Had OSEG joined in year one...that's half of the teams with CFL money. Those early reports were correct despite what BBTB says. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

39 minutes ago, Red and White said:

....Fury ownership has little experience with soccer and weren't expecting all this when they took an NASL team years ago...

In addition to John Pugh who ran the Fury as a PDL team for many years, one of the main OSEG owners from the outset was Bill Shenkman who also owned a significant portion of a lower division English club called Millwall prior to the launch of the Fury NASL franchise, so don't think that's entirely accurate.

34 minutes ago, LAK said:

...Also, as a side note. Bob Young money involved in Halifax as well. Had OSEG joined in year one...that's half of the teams with CFL money. Those early reports were correct despite what BBTB says. 

In reality I never questioned that a league was potentially in the works given the moratorium on further expansion in USSF leagues that was imposed by the CSA expressly for that purpose or that there were some CFL owners potentially involved given Bob Young had promised a pro soccer legacy where the Pan Am Games funding for THF was concerned. What I questioned was that it was something that the CFL were doing collectively and that there would be a league launched playing its games mainly in CFL stadia that would rival MLS in some meaningful way. That always looked like a fantasy scenario in the absence of some 2026 solo hosting scenario and even then it was far-fetched. A low budget league focusing mainly on developing young Canadian players rather than paying relatively high salaries to established CMNT players and big name imports is a much more sensible scenario than what used to be peddled by certain bloggers and podcasters.

Edited April 2, 2019 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Ottawafan74]

5 hours ago, LAK said:

OSEG would have had dealings with Bob Young and Winnipeg Blue Bombers before, so I'm surprised they didn't convince them of the benefits to switching. As the division one league in Canada it's already had so much more to offer. With every day that goes by and the deals that announced, OSEG must see already that USL would never be able to compete with that.

Also, as a side note. Bob Young money involved in Halifax as well. Had OSEG joined in year one...that's half of the teams with CFL money. Those early reports were correct despite what BBTB says. 

I’m not so sure Young would be a selling feature. 

[Initial B]

On 4/2/2019 at 9:35 AM, BuzzAndSting said:

I heard about this event, what was the context? Was he just promoting the idea of the CPL or was he just there as an appearance to talk soccer in general? If he's promoting the league I find it odd that they would schedule a talk with one club. Can you elaborate on what he talked about?

He was talking mostly to the young players and their parents about what they needed to do to get on the radar of CPL clubs and college coaches. He also talked a bit about their scouting network. It seems that the CPL is developing their own scouting network apart from the Provincial and National associations. I'm think this is a great idea because there are so many players that seem to fall through the cracks of the ID camps. St Anthony is the oldest club in the Ottawa area and located in Little Italy, but there are also a couple of local academies like KNSA and Futuro that are affiliated with them. I estimate there were about 50-60 people with seating for about 120, but the weather was absolute crap so that might be the reason for the relatively low attendance.

[Initial B]

On 4/2/2019 at 11:45 AM, Red and White said:

It's purely business to OSEG. If CPL looks solid in its inaugural year, you'll see them soften up and gain interest. It's in CPL's best interest to eventually bring them in, whether the relationship is friendly or just pure business. OSEG have the best stadium and location in the city - setting up competition to this less ideal to just bringing them on board.

That's the thing - I'm getting the feeling that the Fury's decision to stay in USL this year was a business decision, but the CPL has taken it personally, which has led to nonconstructive things being said. I just hope we're not going to see Canadian Soccer politics rear its ugly head again. I thought we were over that crap.

[Ansem]

31 minutes ago, Initial B said:

That's the thing - I'm getting the feeling that the Fury's decision to stay in USL this year was a business decision, but the CPL has taken it personally, which has led to nonconstructive things being said. I just hope we're not going to see Canadian Soccer politics rear its ugly head again. I thought we were over that crap.

The lionshare of the unconstructive comments were made by OSEG and their people, not CPL

[DigzTFC]

I think it's simple and it revolves around money.  I'm assuming the decision was made by the Board of Directors.

Entering the CPL would have been 3 leagues in less than a decade and a franchise fee for each league.

Example:

• USL Championship - The USL, as of 2016, had an initial franchise fee of $3 million.
• https://www.soctakes.com/2017/10/31/usl-franchise-agreement/
• Let's say NASL was $2 Million
• Let's say CPl is $1 Million
• Total $6 Million + for the right to kick a soccer ball

Assume the decision had to be made by the Fall of 2018 to switch leagues.  At that point in time, the Volkswagen and MediaPro deals had not been announced.  At that point in time, the first 8 signings for the league had occurred and they weren't forecasting a high level league.  Now couple that with poor financial results for the Club and poor financial results for the real estate development.

If you are sitting on the Board of Directors or Management with a fiduciary responsibility to Stakeholders, the decision is quite easy to make.  Wait and see. 

Below is the BoD makeup with Pugh as the only one with a soccer background. 

• Shenkman, Greenberg, Ruddy (Investors/RE Developers)
• Hunt (CFL, OHL)
• Pugh (Fury). 

All comments out of Mark Goudie and De Guzman are just window dressing to a decision made by the BoD in my opinion.  Quite frankly, if the franchise fee for CPL team is the same 2 years from now, I may have made the same decision.  Keeping in mind, we know more about the league now then when the decision would have been made.

I think it was shortsighted but understandable.

It should also be pointed out the John Pugh is a Board Member of the CSA. 

They had no idea there would be a risk with CONCACAF. 

As a side bar, I think "The Original 7" is fitting given the NHL has the "Original 6"

Edited April 4, 2019 by DigzTFC

[BuzzAndSting]

4 minutes ago, DigzTFC said:

I think it's simple and it revolves around money.  I'm assuming the decision was made by the Board of Directors.

Entering the CPL would have been 3 leagues in less than a decade and a franchise fee for each league.

Example:

• USL Championship - The USL, as of 2016, had an initial franchise fee of $3 million.
• https://www.soctakes.com/2017/10/31/usl-franchise-agreement/
• Let's say NASL was $2 Million
• Let's say CPl is $1 Million
• Total $6 Million + for the right to kick a soccer ball

Assume the decision had to be made by the Fall of 2018 to switch leagues.  At that point in time, the Volkswagen and MediaPro deals had not been announced.  At that point in time, the first 8 signings for the league had occurred and they weren't forecasting a high level league.  Now couple that with poor financial results for the Club and poor financial results for the real estate development.

If you are sitting on the Board of Directors or Management with a fiduciary responsibility to Stakeholders, the decision is quite easy to make.  Wait and see. 

Below is the BoD makeup with Pugh as the only one with a soccer background. 

• Shenkman, Greenberg, Ruddy (Investors/RE Developers)
• Hunt (CFL, OHL)
• Pugh (Fury). 

All comments out of Mark Goudie and De Guzman are just window dressing to a decision made by the BoD in my opinion.  Quite frankly, if the franchise fee for CPL team is the same 2 years from now, I may have made the same decision.  Keeping in mind, we know more about the league now then when the decision would have been made.

I think it was shortsighted but understandable.

It should also be pointed out the John Pugh is a Board Member of the CSA. 

They had no idea there would be a risk with CONCACAF. 

I don't think OSEG has a board of directors per se. I'm guessing it's some sort of limited partnership so I don't think the "Partners" as their listed on the OSEG website have a fiduciary responsibility to anyone other than themselves. Considering 3 of the 5 partners are 3 of the richest property developers in Eastern Ontario I suspect the financial interest is much more rooted in the success of the whole project, not the individual parts. There's probably a balance between the Fury losing money and increased retail revenue that is acceptable as a negative.

Just my speculation as a former corporate director.

[JamboAl]

From a purely business standpoint, I don't think OSEG is much further ahead today in making a potential move to the CPL than they were a year ago.  Obviously deals have been signed with sponsors for what seems like a good amount of money, but a ball has yet to be kicked and they probably have questions/concerns about how all the markets will do in year 2 and 3. 

Having said that, it doesn't excuse a few of the past proclamations about the CPL.  They should have just kept it in house. 

[ted]

32 minutes ago, DigzTFC said:

Entering the CPL would have been 3 leagues in less than a decade and a franchise fee for each league.

So what? It's not like they lose the money for the USL fee if they switch to CanPL.  They can just sell the franchise.

 

[DigzTFC]

Totally agree on all points - JamboAI

Edited April 4, 2019 by DigzTFC

[Ottawafan74]

2 hours ago, Initial B said:

That's the thing - I'm getting the feeling that the Fury's decision to stay in USL this year was a business decision, but the CPL has taken it personally, which has led to nonconstructive things being said. I just hope we're not going to see Canadian Soccer politics rear its ugly head again. I thought we were over that crap.

Which is what I was alluding to. Nobody has a crystal ball and can predict how the CPL will shake out in the next year or two. Nothing wrong with a business looking after its business interests. 

[xcalibre]

1 hour ago, DigzTFC said:

As a side bar, I think "The Original 7" is fitting given the NHL has the "Original 6"

The seven deadly shinpads

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

Apologies for taking this off topic but interested to see if the people from Ottawa have any thoughts on OSEG’s involvement in bringing a rugby league team to Ottawa? If people are saying they swerved the CPL due to the risks involved, how does that mesh with them starting a club based in an British league?

[BuzzAndSting]

2 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

Apologies for taking this off topic but interested to see if the people from Ottawa have any thoughts on OSEG’s involvement in bringing a rugby league team to Ottawa? If people are saying they swerved the CPL due to the risks involved, how does that mesh with them starting a club based in an British league?

I think OSEG is acting solely as the landlord in a tenant/landlord relationship.

[JamboAl]

Yeah, the owner of the Toronto Wolfpack is the one driving the bus on this.  A club in Ottawa would be a risky venture if only because rugby league is not well understood by most Canadians.  I would definitely buy tickets if it came here.