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CDNFootballer

Ottawa CPL Club

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11 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

It would be interesting to know the breakdown of pro-CPL/pro-USL fans.  Seasons tickets aren't really a good indicator (though I am interested in seeing if there is a drop) because lots of folks will likely keep attending regardless just because it is high level local footy. 

There was a twitter poll around the time of the sanctioning bruhaha and as far as I remember about 60% saying they wanted Ottawa to go CPL and about 30% saying stay in USL.

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I'm a pragmatist. I'm fine with the Fury staying in USL for now, but I would like to see them in CPL either next year or the year after at the latest. the only reason I can see them not joining right now is money - money from some revenue stream the public is not privy to.

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9 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

There was a twitter poll around the time of the sanctioning bruhaha and as far as I remember about 60% saying they wanted Ottawa to go CPL and about 30% saying stay in USL.

OSEG spinning their false narrative of CPL bullying the Fury probably temporilly bumped up that number.  OSEG/Fury chose not to be part of this adventure and every week it's looking like they made a really bad decision.  On top of that, instead of trying to build bridges, they continue to take cheap shots at the league.

I suspect all the initial concessions the CPL were originally making to OSEG will be off the table once OSEG does try and enter CPL.  And so they should be.

This season they should have been favoured to win a Canadian championship in CPL, instead they will have a meaningless sub par season in purgatory.

 

 

 

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On 2/25/2019 at 7:38 AM, Ottawafan74 said:

So if the CPL/fans aren’t interested in Ottawa if they have to be forced in, are fans ok with allowing them to remain in the USL?

I think if Ottawa wants to remain in MLS's minor league as an affiliate/farm team then better they stay in the USA's D2 USL.

If they decide to join in CPL they will have to drop those minor league aspects/agreements to join the big boys in Canada's D1 league.

As CPL grows and surpasses more and more the quality of play vs USL as I expect they will many Ottawa fans will likely clamour for a move up to the Canadian league, just not sure if the Fury will still survive in the long haul in USL, OSEG selling or folding the team in the future wouldn't surprise me if they stick to the USL route.

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2 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

If they decide to join in CPL they will have to drop those minor league aspects/agreements to join the big boys in Canada's D1 league.

If the rumours are true that Impact M David Choiniere is joining either York 9 or HFX on  loan that may not be true!

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14 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

If the rumours are true that Impact M David Choiniere is joining either York 9 or HFX on  loan that may not be true!

I'm refering to formal minor league affiliate/reserve agreement like USL has, not a singular loan like what you mentioned.

I expect there will be some loans here and there with MLS franchises, like FC Edmonton has had in the past in NASL, just no formal minor league agreements allowed thankfully as that would undermine CPL as a D1 league.

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11 hours ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

OSEG spinning their false narrative of CPL bullying the Fury probably temporilly bumped up that number.  OSEG/Fury chose not to be part of this adventure and every week it's looking like they made a really bad decision.  On top of that, instead of trying to build bridges, they continue to take cheap shots at the league.

I suspect all the initial concessions the CPL were originally making to OSEG will be off the table once OSEG does try and enter CPL.  And so they should be.

This season they should have been favoured to win a Canadian championship in CPL, instead they will have a meaningless sub par season in purgatory.

 

 

 

 I think most who voted to join this unknown league didn’t fully understand how shady the CPL and CONCACAF were and voted with their hearts not their minds. As the season progresses I can see more Fury fans realizing the league they are in is stable and of a higher quality. IF the CPL comes begging maybe the Fury should consider allowing the CPL to make some changes to the way they do things; then they may have to make a decision. Maybe. 

Just like your post Winnipeg Fury. But opposite view. 

Edited by Ottawafan74

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11 minutes ago, Ottawafan74 said:

 I think most who voted to join this unknown league didn’t fully understand how shady the CPL and CONCACAF were and voted with their hearts not their minds. As the season progresses I can see more Fury fans realizing the league they are in is stable and of a higher quality. IF the CPL comes begging maybe the Fury should consider allowing the CPL to make some changes to the way they do things; then they may have to make a decision. Maybe. 

Just like your post Winnipeg Fury. But opposite view. 

CPL shady?  Once again, no proof offered whatsoever.

CPL come begging?  Keep dreaming.  The Fury were in a position where they had leverage to negotiate a great deal to eter the league in year one.  In all likelihood, that leverage has evaporated.  The Fury are in a significantly weaker bargaining position that before.  CPL has gained strong, long term sponsorship deals, and CONCACAF has given a really solid indication that sanctioning is a huge question mark after this year. Unfortunately for your team, they just lost all leverage they had.

Edited by dyslexic nam

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1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

CPL shady?  Once again, no proof offered whatsoever.

CPL come begging?  Keep dreaming.  The Fury were in a position where they had leverage to negotiate a great deal to eter the league in year one.  In all likelihood, that leverage has evaporated.  The Fury are in a significantly weaker bargaining position that before.  CPL has gained strong, long term sponsorship deals, and CONCACAF has given a really solid indication that sanctioning is a huge question mark after this year. Unfortunately for your team, they just lost all leverage they had.

Guess we will have to see how it plays out. 

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https://ottawacitizen.com/sports/soccer/is-ottawas-pro-soccer-future-with-the-canadian-premier-league?fbclid=IwAR1xQpirYzMFCtVIEloJcJZnOa9aKM-vQ2su6bpBRBwxAZO6cWpLwn6qAIw

Still, if it’s such an important initiative, should the national capital be missing from the new soccer league that starts play in April with seven teams located from Victoria to Halifax?

CPL commissioner David Clanachan evidently doesn’t think so even though he and everyone else has known since last summer that Ottawa Fury FC planned to remain in the U.S.-based United Soccer League through at least 2019. Its franchise agreement allows Ottawa Sports & Entertainment Group to shift Fury FC to a Canadian league without penalty, but only with one year’s advance notice to USL, and the deadline for 2020 has passed, too.

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23 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

https://ottawacitizen.com/sports/soccer/is-ottawas-pro-soccer-future-with-the-canadian-premier-league?fbclid=IwAR1xQpirYzMFCtVIEloJcJZnOa9aKM-vQ2su6bpBRBwxAZO6cWpLwn6qAIw

Still, if it’s such an important initiative, should the national capital be missing from the new soccer league that starts play in April with seven teams located from Victoria to Halifax?

CPL commissioner David Clanachan evidently doesn’t think so even though he and everyone else has known since last summer that Ottawa Fury FC planned to remain in the U.S.-based United Soccer League through at least 2019. Its franchise agreement allows Ottawa Sports & Entertainment Group to shift Fury FC to a Canadian league without penalty, but only with one year’s advance notice to USL, and the deadline for 2020 has passed, too.

It would be interesting to know how much weight CONCACAF will give this when it comes time for the sanctioning decision next year.  If the Fury were the one's who had to give notice to USL, I am not sure it would carry much weight.  Otherwise, it essentially lets the Fury dictate CONCACAF's decision simply by whether or not they choose to give notice. 

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If the 2020 withdrawal has passed already then the most likely scenario to me is that the Fury are moving in 2020.

“Which is what we’ve said from the start: It’s not ‘no,’ it’s ‘not now,’” Goudie says. “(CPL teams) haven’t kicked a soccer ball, but let’s see how things transpire with them. We were clear with the CPL that, ‘Get into your first season, let’s see where things go and we’ll leave the door open to have whatever discussions we need to have going forward.’”

The last sentence indicates they're going to evaluate during the first season, but what's the point if the earliest they could move is 2021? A more natural way of saying that would have been "Finish a couple of seasons, let's see where things go and..."

They could have been told by Concacaf they're moving, hence them backing down, then given notice to the USL for 2020 and now are spinning this to appear as if it's all a calculated approach to appease their entire fan base.

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1 hour ago, BrennanFan said:

Its franchise agreement allows Ottawa Sports & Entertainment Group to shift Fury FC to a Canadian league without penalty, but only with one year’s advance notice to USL, and the deadline for 2020 has passed, too.

I'm 99% sure that I saw somewhere that the notice required was lowered to 6 months. Fury has until Fall 2019 to make a decision. They will have had the opportunity to observe a full CPL season to help them make the "right decision".

However, CONCACAF made it clear that it was 2019 only. If they choose to try them by letting the notice date pass, they should (I believe they will) be denied 2020 sanction.

Edited by Ansem

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6 minutes ago, matty said:

Said it before, I think they'll give a timeline this year and everyone is cool with it. Gonna guess the 2022 season is the debut of them.

Not sure how you see that in a quote like this:

“We’re seeing the re-branding of the league and what they’re implementing now with 36 teams in total to compete for a title. That’s massive when you have two conferences of 18 each. You don’t find that in any league in the world right now. To be a part of that, and the only existing Canadian team, that definitely keeps involved in some of the best competitions you could be involved with for North America, and that’s important for our development, that’s important for our success for the Fury and also that’s important for the future of the game in Canada.”

beyond it being what you want to happen.

It looks like they see USL as something that will soon be generally viewed as a clear step up in quality from CanPL. Time will tell whether they are correct on that. Best way to hole that posture below the waterline is to have a massively successful launch and a Montreal/Laval expansion announcement later this year. Flip side is that it only takes a couple of obvious weak links to emerge for them to be able to say look at that we told you so.  Everything will be a lot clearer a year from now.

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6 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Flip side is that it only takes a couple of obvious weak links to emerge for them to be able to say look at that we told you so.  Everything will be a lot clearer a year from now.

Do you want me to count how many "weak links" USL currently have? There are good teams in USL but painting a picture that all teams are like Cincinnati and therefore USL is the **** is dishonesty coming from those claiming/implying that.

I might be wrong but Gourdie doesn't strike me as a soccer guy, hence deferring to whatever De Guzman is singing to him. Personally, De Guzman is being selfish here. He's GM of a USL club that benefits getting loans from MLS (good pieces might I had) which makes his job somewhat easier. Being a GM in CPL would expose soooo fast as a GM who's way over his head. The man's self-interested... so crapping on CPL and convincing the boss that USL is better helps him keep his job...my opinion of course

Edited by Ansem

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8 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Do you want me to count how many "weak links" USL currently have? There are good teams in USL but painting a picture that all teams are like Cincinnati and therefore USL is the **** is dishonesty coming from those claiming/implying that....

The difference is that a couple of weak links out of 7 is a much bigger issue in league stability terms than having a few weak links out of 36 and don't forget that the USL Championship have already decanted a few of their problem cases out into the new USL 1. Beyond that, if there are no obvious weak links to point to, my argument was that the Fury's posture will be holed beneath the waterline.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The difference is that a couple of weak links out of 7 is a much bigger issue in league stability terms than having a few weak links out of 36 and don't forget that the USL Championship have already decanted a few of their problem cases out into the new USL 1. Beyond that, if there are no obvious weak links to point to, my argument was that the Fury's posture will be holed beneath the waterline.

All of that is irrelevant, CONCACAF has the last say anyhow so what De Guzman thinks weight infinitely little in the grand scheme of things. 2019 will be their last season in USL.

Join, take a hiatus to fight it in CAS or fold. Their call

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Don't think CONCACAF are a factor at this point. They've been grandfathered in. This part from David Clanachan:

“Then, if things change and Ottawa wants to be part of it, that’s great. If not, at one point we’ll have to decide what we want to do about Ottawa. I started off by saying the people of Ottawa deserve to have a team in the Canadian Premier League. It’s Canada’s professional league. I can’t … I don’t see a world where a team from Ottawa is not playing in that league.

“Do you?”

Seems to be premised on the notion that the Fury can be part of the USL on an ongoing basis if they want to be.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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28 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Not sure how you see that in a quote like this:

“We’re seeing the re-branding of the league and what they’re implementing now with 36 teams in total to compete for a title. That’s massive when you have two conferences of 18 each. You don’t find that in any league in the world right now. To be a part of that, and the only existing Canadian team, that definitely keeps involved in some of the best competitions you could be involved with for North America, and that’s important for our development, that’s important for our success for the Fury and also that’s important for the future of the game in Canada.”

beyond it being what you want to happen.

It looks like they see USL as something that will soon be generally viewed as a clear step up in quality from CanPL. Time will tell whether they are correct on that. Best way to hole that posture below the waterline is to have a massively successful launch and a Montreal/Laval expansion announcement later this year. Flip side is that it only takes a couple of obvious weak links to emerge for them to be able to say look at that we told you so.  Everything will be a lot clearer a year from now.

I don't think the USL championship is going to matter in the eyes of CONCACAF or FIFA. If both leagues are within the ballpark of each other and financially secure the move to join is pretty clear. Fury would likely have two options continue to fight legally or opt to set a timeline, play USL as long as possible and move to CPL and avoid legal issues and costs.

Edited by matty

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5 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Don't think CONCACAF are a factor at this point. They've been grandfathered in. This part from David Clanachan:

“Then, if things change and Ottawa wants to be part of it, that’s great. If not, at one point we’ll have to decide what we want to do about Ottawa. I started off by saying the people of Ottawa deserve to have a team in the Canadian Premier League. It’s Canada’s professional league. I can’t … I don’t see a world where a team from Ottawa is not playing in that league.

“Do you?”

Seems to be premised on the notion that the Fury can be part of the USL on an ongoing basis if they want to be.

not really just seems uncertain about the who what where when because no one knows how this will all play out

Edited by matty

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6 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Don't think CONCACAF are a factor at this point. They've been grandfathered in. This part from David Clanachan:

“Then, if things change and Ottawa wants to be part of it, that’s great. If not, at one point we’ll have to decide what we want to do about Ottawa. I started off by saying the people of Ottawa deserve to have a team in the Canadian Premier League. It’s Canada’s professional league. I can’t … I don’t see a world where a team from Ottawa is not playing in that league.

“Do you?”

Seems to be premised on the notion that the Fury can be part of the USL on an ongoing basis if they want to be.

No, no

David Clanachan represents the league. He has no business to speculate anything else than the status quo as of today. He can't go public and say "they join or they fold, HA-HA". You can't piss off the future fans that you might get over making such a statement. He has to frame it in a way he doesn't piss off Fury fans and take the highroad.

If Fury had been "grandfathered" as you say, CONCACAF wouldn't specify that the sanction is for 2019 and 2019 only

Edited by Ansem

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