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Ottawa CPL Club

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On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 10:01 AM, KW519 said:

Shows how in the know Ottawa fans are if they think the CPL killed their team. 

I didn't realize you were sitting in on all the meetings between OSEG, CPL and CSA.

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Related to league sanctioning, I've come across comments that Forge and HFX are actually owned or controlled by the same group - anyone know if that's true?  If so, wouldn't that be a huge issue?  I know common ownership of clubs within the same league is not allowed elsewhere (I assume by FIFA because of concerns about arranging results).  We saw the same issue in CL with RBL/RBS, and all leagues tend to have limits on the number of players that can be loaned to other teams in the same division, etc. for this reason.

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1 hour ago, Protega said:

The whole implementation of CPL was rushed and sadly, isn't anywhere near the level I think most of us had hoped for.

I really don't understand how you could have expected the level to be any different. It's a league for Canadians and they're signing the best Canadians available. This is the only level possible, as this is the level of the Canadian player pool. The purpose of this league is to improve that level.

Edited by C2SKI

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54 minutes ago, Protega said:

Related to league sanctioning, I've come across comments that Forge and HFX are actually owned or controlled by the same group - anyone know if that's true?  If so, wouldn't that be a huge issue?  I know common ownership of clubs within the same league is not allowed elsewhere (I assume by FIFA because of concerns about arranging results).  We saw the same issue in CL with RBL/RBS, and all leagues tend to have limits on the number of players that can be loaned to other teams in the same division, etc. for this reason.

Multiple MLS teams were owned by the same owner at one point if I'm not mistaken

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58 minutes ago, Protega said:

Related to league sanctioning, I've come across comments that Forge and HFX are actually owned or controlled by the same group - anyone know if that's true?  If so, wouldn't that be a huge issue?  I know common ownership of clubs within the same league is not allowed elsewhere (I assume by FIFA because of concerns about arranging results).  We saw the same issue in CL with RBL/RBS, and all leagues tend to have limits on the number of players that can be loaned to other teams in the same division, etc. for this reason.

They're funded by Bob Young, not necessarily owned or controlled, if I understand correctly.

Also, this has been known for some time.  I believe it was mentioned on here around the time the team was announced.

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Yes, SEA operates the team. Bob Young is the primary investor. There are other investors too. The corporation that controls Forge FC does not also control HFX Wanderers, Bob Young is an investor, and as far as I know (which admittedly is not a great deal) that's the extent of it. 

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27 minutes ago, Keegan said:

They're funded by Bob Young, not necessarily owned or controlled, if I understand correctly.

Also, this has been known for some time.  I believe it was mentioned on here around the time the team was announced.

The same Young who just sold his tech company for $34B? ?

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1 minute ago, garmc said:

That'd be the one. When I first heard Bob Young was bankrolling the Wanderers, I didn't think "oh no!" I thought "Oh hell yeah, we've got a sugar daddy!"

Rumors are that he's the money behind Kitchener-Waterloo

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5 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

This.

Though in fairness, we have become a Champions League-level club.  And in the current EPL, that is no small achievement considering there are 6 clubs that could legitimately claim to be at that level.

You are aware we pretty well let you tie us the other day, hating Inter much more and actually having fairly amicable feelings towards Spurs. we played at like 60% intensity? But happy you could celebrate like nuts in our stadium. ?

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15 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You are aware we pretty well let you tie us the other day, hating Inter much more and actually having fairly amicable feelings towards Spurs. we played at like 60% intensity? But happy you could celebrate like nuts in our stadium. ?

Funny.  I have heard how Barca played a B team.  Dembele and Coutinho alone cost $250M.  But whatever helps you sleep at night.  All I know is that we got the result we needed to advance.  Onwards!

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6 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

This.

Though in fairness, we have become a Champions League-level club.  And in the current EPL, that is no small achievement considering there are 6 clubs that could legitimately claim to be at that level.

They have tried their best lately to ruin this joke but it still amuses me. 

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50 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Funny.  I have heard how Barca played a B team.  Dembele and Coutinho alone cost $250M.  But whatever helps you sleep at night.  All I know is that we got the result we needed to advance.  Onwards!

We are fine with Spurs going through, so no problem there. There is no bad blood between the clubs and plenty of Spurs legends, like Lineker, who are major Barça backers as well.

But we did play two players who've spent more time on the B team, our second keeper, (who's good) and did not start Messi or Suarez or Alba or Busquets or Pique: it was by far the weakest team we've fielded this year in League or Champions. I am sure Inter is upset we did not beat your butts, but hey, they were not exactly up to par themselves either. So best of luck next round. 

 

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7 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

This.

Though in fairness, we have become a Champions League-level club.  And in the current EPL, that is no small achievement considering there are 6 clubs that could legitimately claim to be at that level.

Spurs are literally the only club in Europe have made the transition from mid-pack to Champion’s League regular without a sugar daddy.  That’s a hell of an achievement. 

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4 hours ago, Ansem said:

The same Young who just sold his tech company for $34B? ?

I'm being pedantic, but Red Hat's IPO was in 1999, which is why he was remarkably wealthy before, but he didn't just make 34 billion dollars. He probably still owned a decent chunk of the company but likely just a fraction of that total

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On 12/14/2018 at 6:56 PM, BuzzAndSting said:

What’s crazy is that Fury fans do not seem to have a problem with the fact their club was selling them a product they weren’t even sure they could deliver.

And then, they say that the CPL was too big a risk for them: but they were living on risk, calculated risk, but risk nonethess.

So here's the rub: they rejected CPL as too risky but were in risk mode just the same with USL.

All the while you are making major decisions and announcing them publicly (no to CPL, big committment to USL), you discard options and take others, without having the bird in your hand. That is what Ottawa Fury was doing. Their only basis to think they'd be sanctioned by the CSA and US Soccer and that Concacaf would accept such sanctioning for USL was on the basis of precedent. That is compelling, it seems justifiable, and we can all understand how precedent can make one confident in the midst of a risk play. But it is also a way to live with your head in the sand and stop thinking as you go. 

Precedent does not mean you can ignore the factors that move certainty into uncertainty and from there to pure risk. Like changing circumstances, and the precedent of statements intended to signal changing rules of the game. The world changes, and this world, specifically did too. And in terms of Ottawa Fury and where they might play, the CPL is a factor that alters the conditions. It is a new factor that changes the previous conditions. They failed to understand this properly.

Ottawa thought they could roll along ignoring words, context, actions and conditions while rejecting out CPL as too risky. And using perceived CPL risk as an excuse to shun it.  But it turns out what they were doing was riskier, because they ignored how the world around them had changed. And basically lost a chance to leverage risk and get into the CPL game from day one to their obvious advantage. 

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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9 hours ago, Ansem said:

Multiple MLS teams were owned by the same owner at one point if I'm not mistaken

Yes, at the time the MLS had essentially folded, it was three partners for the 10 teams. AEG I believe owned/financed six teams at one point including the Galaxy who they still own. Lamar Hunt operated up to three teams p, Columbus, KC and Dallas. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/04/12/mls-folded-for-a-few-days-in-2001-and-somehow-kept-it-a-secret-until-now/?noredirect=on

Edited by Cblake

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5 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Anyone who is critical of CPL because of multiple teams by a single ownership group is being pretty silly.  If that is what it takes to get CPL up and running, then we should all be thanking him, not critical of him.  

Of course, it could be the rum talking.

I agree, but it is fair to say that it puts the league at a different sort of risk.

Many people are worried about what happens when the Montreal Alouettes owner passes away, which is a legitimate concern when one person's passion seems to be what is keeping a team in business. Not that I am expecting Mr. Young to drop off any time soon, but there is inherent risk to multiple teams in the league being tied to the success of one individual. 

Glad the bit about Young and KW is out though. Hard to sit on that one when people were skeptical of where the money for 2020 was coming from. I'm excited to hear what sort of solution they are planning for the stadium question

Edited by Complete Homer

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On 12/13/2018 at 8:01 AM, Ansem said:

But would they really lose attendance?

I just counted 17 non-Canadians (not counting Akinola). They would have to drop several of those players to meet whatever the domestic rules become. They would have to slash their player budget from $26 million down to something more like $1 million, which would have to include getting rid of Giovinco, Bradley, Altidore, Vazquez, probably even Osorio and many others. The rest of the team would have to take significant pay cuts to stay with the team. They also would be gone from MLS’ TV contracts and would have to hope that TSN or whoever picks up the CPL in order to maintain TV coverage which of course helps to drive interest in the team. So yeah, it’s possible TFC’s attendance might drop if they switched leagues.

Apologies if someone already addressed this, I am pages behind on this thread.

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My hope is that both the Fury and CONCACAF get together and let calmer heads prevail and allow the Fury one last season in the USL for 2019 and then they jump to the CanPL. I'm pretty sure that's the consensus of the majority as to how we'd like to see things go down. That said, with how hard both sides appear to be digging in, this doesn't strike me as bluster from either side.

Hope things work out for all you guys in Ottawa.

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