Ottawa CPL Club

[juicy sushi]

The line between journalist, activist, and PR person can be very thin in sports media, with people juggling these hats simultaneously.  

At this point, we have a variety of public statements from individuals and organizations involved.  Trying to sort through the rhetoric is tough, and some people seem to be speaking in bad faith.  

At this point, I just want soccer at TD place in Ottawa in 2019 and would like all parties [looks meaningfully at OSEG] to sort their shit out so that can happen. 

[kacbru]

2 minutes ago, RS said:

I keep reading here that we shouldn't take the Fury's statements at face value, which is a good stance to take.

On that same note, are we really willing to take CONCACAF's statement at face value?

Certainly not.  But if it is true, CSA has no business complaining about the process if they were told up front it's a non-starter (as they appear to be doing based on the CP story).  

[CDNFootballer]

11 hours ago, Initial B said:

That said, I do want the Fury to join CPL eventually, and I feel they have a plan to do so, as soon as they get paid their portion of the upcoming expansion fees from the new USL clubs. Monty is screwing with their business and may end up costing Canadian Soccer in the long run.

Ottawa Fury and all the other USL teams don't get a cut of expansion fees.

[garmc]

1 hour ago, Dominic94 said:

Wtf, makes no sense he has the money no ?

No, I really don't think SEA has the funds to pay for a CPL team.

Bob Young is the big money behind the team. There are other investors too. I know a few, but they're not nearly as rich as Bob Young is. Bob basically hired SEA to run the team, but he pays the bills.

[Gian-Luca]

The Concacaf press release makes both the Fury and the CSA look foolish. And I was hearing Victor speak it as I read it. 

[johnluckpickherd]

1 hour ago, RS said:

I keep reading here that we shouldn't take the Fury's statements at face value, which is a good stance to take.

On that same note, are we really willing to take CONCACAF's statement at face value?

It should be fairly verifiable to see whether a formal application for sanctioning was made. Seems like a weird thing to lie about.

[Initial B]

21 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

Ottawa Fury and all the other USL teams don't get a cut of expansion fees.

I'm assuming the Fury gets some form or money from the USL (or there is a significant fine) because money is the only reason I can think of that OSEG would stay in the USL rather than the CPL. For them to not chose CPL must mean that they can't see a way to be financially viable at this time. On second thought, perhaps they could still make money in the CPL, but figure they could make more in the USL. At this point, I'm not sure who to believe anymore....

[Gopherbashi]

3 minutes ago, Initial B said:

I'm assuming the Fury gets some form or money from the USL (or there is a significant fine) because money is the only reason I can think of that OSEG would stay in the USL rather than the CPL. For them to not chose CPL must mean that they can't see a way to be financially viable at this time. On second thought, perhaps they could still make money in the CPL, but figure they could make more in the USL. At this point, I'm not sure who to believe anymore....

I don't think we should assume that it exclusively boils down to money; there may have been a legitimate desire to maintain a level of quality that they didn't feel (rightly or wrongly) that the CPL would let them attain.

We don't necessarily need to assume the best intentions, but we shouldn't straight to the worst intentions either.

[Prune_55]

12 hours ago, Ansem said:

But would they really lose attendance?

I know the conversation has moved on but this needs a response.

Do you actually believe that 27k people are going to show up at BMO Field after CONCACAF has forced TFC to play in the CPL.?

A TFC that has just been forced to cut 90% of their payroll, dismissed all their staff, mothballed the academy and fans losing a chance to watch guys like Zlatan and Rooney. If they got 2700 fans to show up it would only be because York 9 sent 2k. People who think TFC could survive in the CPL are delusional. 

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, Prune_55 said:

I know the conversation has moved on but this needs a response.

Do you actually believe that 27k people are going to show up at BMO Field after CONCACAF has forced TFC to play in the CPL.?

A TFC that has just been forced to cut 90% of their payroll, dismissed all their staff, mothballed the academy and fans losing a chance to watch guys like Zlatan and Rooney. If they got 2700 fans to show up it would only be because York 9 sent 2k. People who think TFC could survive in the CPL are delusional. 

it's quite obvious that such a scenario won't happen unless the CPL significantly upgrades.

[Mikmacdo]

15 minutes ago, Prune_55 said:

I know the conversation has moved on but this needs a response.

Do you actually believe that 27k people are going to show up at BMO Field after CONCACAF has forced TFC to play in the CPL.?

A TFC that has just been forced to cut 90% of their payroll, dismissed all their staff, mothballed the academy and fans losing a chance to watch guys like Zlatan and Rooney. If they got 2700 fans to show up it would only be because York 9 sent 2k. People who think TFC could survive in the CPL are delusional. 

If the CPL grows to the size of the CFL then why wouldn’t TFC with Montreal and Vancouver be able to survive in the CPL?

 

[Prune_55]

3 minutes ago, Ansem said:

it's quite obvious that such a scenario won't happen unless the CPL significantly upgrades.

Dude - TFC's payroll this year will be $28m US and growing. After our World Cup it will be between $40m to $50m - that's because of the exploding TV, Radio, Digital, Sponsorship and Ticket Revenue in big American cities as its all shared with Toronto.  When MLS expansion is done they will have 36 D1 clubs minimum so unless Canada's population is 'upgraded' by about 250m people there's not a chance TFC ever moves. 

[Prune_55]

5 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

If the CPL grows to the size of the CFL then why wouldn’t TFC with Montreal and Vancouver be able to survive in the CPL?

 

1. The Argos didn't get forced out of the NFL and put in the CFL. They weren't playing Peyton Manning and the Broncos one year and then not.

2. The Argonauts 'survive' because it's over 100 years old and by handouts from generous owners and revenues from Sask and Calgary.

3. Look at how the CFL teams in Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto are doing the past 5 years.

[Mikmacdo]

American football is a dying sport while soccer is growing in popularity here tremendously. 

The NFL is the top league in the world while the MLS isn’t top 10 so the drop off wont be too much at one point. 

[juicy sushi]

I don’t believe that kind of growth for a second.  Especially since TFC management are on-record saying the long-term goal is to lower the wage bill, not raise it.

How much revenue sharing does MLS offer?  Not too much if the owner of Columbus was dead set on moving.  And it’s not like TFC are going to suddenly double their own attendance.  BMO Field isn’t suddenly becoming a 60,000 person stadium, nor have 60,000 Torontonians shown a desire to show up.  I don’t see a World Cup changing that. 

[C2SKI]

7 minutes ago, juicy sushi said:

I don’t see a World Cup changing that.

A strong showing, with players included from North American based teams, would undoubtedly change the perception of professional soccer in Canada

Edited December 14, 2018 by C2SKI

[Keegan]

It’s unlikely but you can’t rule anything out really.  If our Canadian cities can take off as they have in Orlando, Portland, Cincinnati etc. the sky is the limit.  It will take time but nothing is impossible and maybe one day playing nationally makes a lot more sense.  

[Ansem]

31 minutes ago, Prune_55 said:

Dude - TFC's payroll this year will be $28m US and growing. After our World Cup it will be between $40m to $50m - that's because of the exploding TV, Radio, Digital, Sponsorship and Ticket Revenue in big American cities as its all shared with Toronto.  When MLS expansion is done they will have 36 D1 clubs minimum so unless Canada's population is 'upgraded' by about 250m people there's not a chance TFC ever moves. 

why the attitude? I'm agreeing. As long as the disparity stays this big, I don't see it happening.

unless....

CPL let's those 3 do whatever they want and they become the de facto Barca, Real and Atletico of CPL if CCL ever get big enough to make those extra CCL spot valuable. Besides, I have yet to see PSG being negatively affected by burning Ligue 1...winning games and championships sells...more than being just another mid to bottom table team (disregard this paragraph....I'm talking out loud ?)

[juicy sushi]

200% growth in TFC’s payroll, and by extension, revenue?

Sorry folks, I don’t see it.  A post-World Cup growth spurt for CanPL teams I could buy.  That makes a lot of sense and fits historical patterns.  A doubling of MLS club revenue would mean either Rogers/Bell suddenly doubling cable fees for all of us, or a massive societal shift where another major sport got abandoned.  Not seeing that. 

[grasshopper1917]

1 minute ago, juicy sushi said:

200% growth in TFC’s payroll, and by extension, revenue?

Sorry folks, I don’t see it.  A post-World Cup growth spurt for CanPL teams I could buy.  That makes a lot of sense and fits historical patterns.  A doubling of MLS club revenue would mean either Rogers/Bell suddenly doubling cable fees for all of us, or a massive societal shift where another major sport got abandoned.  Not seeing that. 

Dont forget doubling ticket prices  

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, juicy sushi said:

200% growth in TFC’s payroll, and by extension, revenue?

Sorry folks, I don’t see it.  A post-World Cup growth spurt for CanPL teams I could buy.  That makes a lot of sense and fits historical patterns.  A doubling of MLS club revenue would mean either Rogers/Bell suddenly doubling cable fees for all of us, or a massive societal shift where another major sport got abandoned.  Not seeing that. 

The biggest winners of the 2026 World Cup will undeniably be CPL. CPL "2.0" could happen around there...

I acknowledge that MLS might hit 3.0 but I have MONUMENTAL doubts that Vancouver and Montreal will keep up in 3.0.

[juicy sushi]

8 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Dont forget doubling ticket prices  

Yeah, I am forgetting how many suckers there are in Toronto, I mean, look at the Leafs. 

[Gopherbashi]

12 minutes ago, juicy sushi said:

200% growth in TFC’s payroll, and by extension, revenue?

Sorry folks, I don’t see it.  A post-World Cup growth spurt for CanPL teams I could buy.  That makes a lot of sense and fits historical patterns.  A doubling of MLS club revenue would mean either Rogers/Bell suddenly doubling cable fees for all of us, or a massive societal shift where another major sport got abandoned.  Not seeing that. 

Yeah, this part makes the whole scenario implausible.

We all know that cable fees will triple by 2026.

[juicy sushi]

9 minutes ago, Ansem said:

The biggest winners of the 2026 World Cup will undeniably be CPL. CPL "2.0" could happen around there...

I acknowledge that MLS might hit 3.0 but I have MONUMENTAL doubts that Vancouver and Montreal will keep up in 3.0.

MLS 3.0 might leave a lot of that League for dead, but it all would come down to salary cap reforms.  The DP rules essentially make a very expensive compromise that enables small teams to have a chance.  

[zen]

11 minutes ago, juicy sushi said:

200% growth in TFC’s payroll, and by extension, revenue?

Sorry folks, I don’t see it.  A post-World Cup growth spurt for CanPL teams I could buy.  That makes a lot of sense and fits historical patterns.  A doubling of MLS club revenue would mean either Rogers/Bell suddenly doubling cable fees for all of us, or a massive societal shift where another major sport got abandoned.  Not seeing that. 

So CPL could grow because of the World Cup but MLS can't, huh? MLS will grow leaps and bounds before CPL is a stable league, and the CPL will never be able to compete with MLS. It is what it is and ours to support. Having MLS teams in Canada will be a benefit to Canadian soccer in the long run.

Who knows maybe there'll be a super league on every continent in the future, and national leagues relegated to the development of players.