Ottawa CPL Club

[Ansem]

10 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/articles/canadian-premiere-league/concacaf-says-no-r59/

Duane Rollins' take on the mess.

“They knew this was possible,” one source said. “Yet, they went ahead anyway and now they are crying about being discriminated.”

Another person went even further, suggesting that the Fury might have “half wanted (to be denied sanctioning).” The suggestion being that OSEG doesn’t really want to be involved in soccer anymore, but didn’t want to be the bad guy in fans’ eyes, least it hurt them with RedBlacks’ ticket sales.

[DrFitzpatrick]

3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...but is still subject to the legal systems of its member association countries as is FIFA.

If the Fury or USL want to take it to court and use Canadian or US law to their advantage, The Fury and USL must be prepared to be kicked out of FIFA altogether.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

41 minutes ago, SuperCanuck said:

How would you describe the move by Ottawa Fury to string the C. Premier League along for a few months, build momentum and excitement, and then just before a climax of joining the league when everyone was expecting them to, they pulled out at the last minute?

It's not clear that's what happened. There were rumblings on here and elsewhere that that they weren't on board well before they announced it publicly. Everybody tended to ignore that and assumed that the delay was because they wanted to wait until the end of the USL season but FC Cincinnatti saw no need to do that where moving to MLS was concerned.

[juicy sushi]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

“They knew this was possible,” one source said. “Yet, they went ahead anyway and now they are crying about being discriminated.”

Another person went even further, suggesting that the Fury might have “half wanted (to be denied sanctioning).” The suggestion being that OSEG doesn’t really want to be involved in soccer anymore, but didn’t want to be the bad guy in fans’ eyes, least it hurt them with RedBlacks’ ticket sales.

That seems strange argument to make, since if it was the case, surely it would be easier to pass the torch (pun intendend) off to an erstwhile CPL entrant and make a show of it to actually get positive PR instead? 

[BuzzAndSting]

1 hour ago, masster said:

Thanks for pointing this out. Here is a direct link to that radio segment with AJ Jakubec who is the play by play man for the Fury. Starts at 21:20
https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200-1.1225738

There was also an interview with JDG earlier in the day:
https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200/de-guzman-concacaf-owes-us-an-explanation-why-we-can-t-play-in-the-usl-1.1225676

The Jakubec interview was good. Obviously slanted to the Fury side of things, but very informative. He takes a shot at this forum, so for that alone, it is worth the listen!!

Wow, he basically accuses the CPL of orchestrating this. And his complaint that the CPL has told players and agents that the Fury won’t have sanctioning is rich when you consider the rumours that JdG was doing the exact same thing.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Just now, DrFitzpatrick said:

If the Fury or USL want to take it to court and use Canadian or US law to their advantage, The Fury and USL must be prepared to be kicked out of FIFA altogether.

Not how it tends to work in practice. The federal government has legislated in this area so there is a dispute resolution mechanism that can be used that is binding on both parties.

[Ottawafan74]

49 minutes ago, SuperCanuck said:

How would you describe the move by Ottawa Fury to string the C. Premier League along for a few months, build momentum and excitement, and then just before a climax of joining the league when everyone was expecting them to, they pulled out at the last minute?

 

As far as I know the Fury never had any intention of getting on board with the CPL.  So the premise that they strung them along is off base. 

[Keegan]

JDG “concacaf should explain to us why we can’t play in USL”.  Oh, so that’s it?  Then you promise you’ll stop crying? I won’t hold my breath.. next it will be “but why do those rules apply to US? Don’t you know we made the now defunct NASL final in 2015?” 

Losing the Fury is no big loss at all to Canada Soccer.  These guys scrapped their academy, have literally never produced an impact national team player at any level and have the makeup of a typical CPL roster anyway.  If you were to watch the Fury in CPL v USL you would literally notice NO difference but people are so brainwashed they act like this is dropping 3 tiers.

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, DrFitzpatrick said:

If the Fury or USL want to take it to court and use Canadian or US law to their advantage, The Fury and USL must be prepared to be kicked out of FIFA altogether.

Most likely goes to the court of sport arbitration in Switzerland. Not much grounds to take this to US or Canadian courts.

The Fury being unsanctioned means they are going against CONCACAF & FIFA...

I'm starting to believe that theory from Rollins article that OSEG are using it as an out of soccer altogether

[Keegan]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Most likely goes to the court of sport arbitration in Switzerland. Not much grounds to take this to US or Canadian courts.

The Fury being unsanctioned means they are going against CONCACAF & FIFA...

I'm starting to believe that theory from Rollins article that OSEG are using it as an out of soccer altogether

I don’t believe that for a second and frankly don’t trust a lot of things Rollins says.  

That can’t be the answer... there is something else at play here.  The most logical theory I’ve heard is that Fury want to play at the same level and collect trickle down funds. 

Ottawa has a choice to make months ago and chose to stay with the “elites” aka MLS, USL, USSF.  And if Vic wasn’t president they would have got away with it too.  Notice who is jumping in to defend Ottawa?  MLS, USSF etc. Why?  Because they’re all in the same club.. the “WE own soccer in North America, not just the USA” club.  They could have been that constant thorn in CPL’s side.. collecting commissions from the scheme and marketing themselves as a higher level than CPL and closer to MLS than our league.  

This had to be done.  And now MLS should know it’s war if they want to take a swing at our league.

[Alex D]

6 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Losing the Fury is no big loss at all to Canada Soccer.  These guys scrapped their academy, have literally never produced an impact national team player at any level and have the makeup of a typical CPL roster anyway.  If you were to watch the Fury in CPL v USL you would literally notice NO difference but people are so brainwashed they act like this is dropping 3 tiers.

I'm not losing any sleep over this. Their fan base is about 50 die hards and a bunch of soccer parents who don't care either way. 

The Fury were a crap PDL team given a budget by people who dont know a damn thing about the sport to fill stadium dates. Fold and make room for a real club already. 

[Keegan]

Even if they do play next year what sort of numbers do they expect to draw? 

- Canadian interest in USL will be at a new all time low (if that was even possible); 

- Many of your fans are pissed off as the team continually gets worse; 

- Attendance has been declining; and

- Many people will inevitably be turned off that you aren’t in CPL.

This was just a disaster and the only reason they did it was because of ego OR commissions they would be receiving.  Logically there isn’t another explanation.

If OSEG was on board from the start they wouldn’t have lost A SINGLE FAN by their decision to leave USL.  But instead they questioned it and split their fan based between nationalists and loyalists so that no matter the decision they would inevitably lose attendance. 

Like how in their right minds could they think 2019 was going to be a “good” year.   All signs have been pointing to a decline and now you’re ignoring joining a top division and all that comes with it... were people supposed to be psyched and attendance was gonna hop up to 7k?? 

 

[JamboAl]

11 minutes ago, Alex D said:

I'm not losing any sleep over this. Their fan base is about 50 die hards and a bunch of soccer parents who don't care either way. 

The Fury were a crap PDL team given a budget by people who dont know a damn thing about the sport to fill stadium dates. Fold and make room for a real club already. 

That's pretty damn unfair.  The Fury were an excellent PDL team before NASL and are mid-table both in attendance in the USL and performance wise. 

Don't go there cause anyone can make the same stupid comments on the first CPL team that doesn't draw 3,000 and is bottom of the league.

[dyslexic nam]

31 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Not how it tends to work in practice. The federal government has legislated in this area so there is a dispute resolution mechanism that can be used that is binding on both parties.

What federal legislation would cover this case?  And who are "both parties"? (because at minimum, this involves the Fury, USL, and CONCACAF)

I am fairly sure there is no Canadian federal legislation that has the power to compel CONCACAF. 

And keep in mind that no one is absolutely 100% forbidding this from happening.  The idea of sanctioning is always that if you don't abide by the rules, you face penalties doled out by the governing body.  Thus FIFA can't legally prevent the creation of a European super league.  But they can say that teams playing in it, and players playing in it, can't play in any FIFA-sanctioned competition.  As far as I know, there is no federal legislation that can even remotely tackle those sorts of governing body penalties.

So, can Ottawa legally play in USL?  Sure, if both they and USL want to lose the benefits that flow from FIFA membership (including the ineligibility of any registered player for all FIFA competitions).

Edited December 13, 2018 by dyslexic nam

[BuzzAndSting]

I’m no lawyer but I believe the first step of any legal challenge from the Fury would be to file for an injunction in a federal court in Miami, where CONCACAF is headquartered, to allow them to continue to play in the USL while they determine if they want to file a lawsuit.

[juicy sushi]

If we want to start going into crazy hypotheticals, it's not like a couple of organizations with long histories of corruption (CONCACAF and FIFA), with a World Cup coming up in Canada, don't need to make nice with the Canadian Government.  And it's not like the CSA doesn't need to do so as well.

The list of exemptions from Canadians laws which CONCACAF and FIFA demanded for the World Cup was long.  I don't see why that couldn't be put at risk if this dispute got stupid enough.

I don't see the CSA or the Canadian Government being willing to risk a World Cup over the Fury.  At the same time, I don't see the World Cup as having enough pull to pave over issues if they get raised.  Nobody wants to do that kind of hard work, so I would expect that someone will offer an easy out to all parties.

But this is all very groundless speculation on my part, and I would have thought all parties would have been smart enough to not get to this point in the first place.

[Keegan]

42 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Not how it tends to work in practice. The federal government has legislated in this area so there is a dispute resolution mechanism that can be used that is binding on both parties.

This doesn’t even make sense.  A dispute resolution mechanism that is binding on both parties = arbitration.  Arbitration is a voluntary process and if mandatory arises from a contract - not federal legislation.

Unless you simply mean a court decision is binding, which we all knew... 

 

[dyslexic nam]

"May you live in interesting times"

                                    - Chinese curse

[WheatsheafSK]

24 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

What federal legislation would cover this case?  And who are "both parties"? (because at minimum, this involves the Fury, USL, and CONCACAF)

I am fairly sure there is no Canadian federal legislation that has the power to compel CONCACAF. 

And keep in mind that no one is absolutely 100% forbidding this from happening.  The idea of sanctioning is always that if you don't abide by the rules, you face penalties doled out by the governing body.  Thus FIFA can't legally prevent the creation of a European super league.  But they can say that teams playing in it, and players playing in it, can't play in any FIFA-sanctioned competition.  As far as I know, there is no federal legislation that can even remotely tackle those sorts of governing body penalties.

So, can Ottawa legally play in USL?  Sure, if both they and USL want to lose the benefits that flow from FIFA membership (including the ineligibility of any registered player for all FIFA competitions).

He is likely referring to the Sport Dispute Resolution Centre of Canada which is established under Physical Activity and Sports Act.  Of course this being Canada, there may be a dispute resolution mechanism at the provincial level.  I have limited experience with SDRCC so I am not sure if you would appeal to the Court of Arbitration in Switzerland.  Certainly, as a federal tribunal you could judicially review any decision by the SDRCC.  

Just to be clear, I am not familiar enough with CONCACAF rules to know whether a challenge in the domestic jurisdiction is permitted or if you have to go to the Court of Sports Arbitration.  I am simply mentioning what federal legislation would be applicable since you asked.

 

[dyslexic nam]

I suspect the jurisdiction of that agency is limited to Canada.  The idea that it could compel CONCACAF to reverse a decision about a Canadian team playing in an American league seems unlikely.

[Vic]

Given their response today they obviously think they have a winnable case and it will end up in court. And all the power to them to do that. But go that route and all you're doing is going damages, you're still sanctioned out and your club is dead as a doorknob win or lose.

[WheatsheafSK]

23 minutes ago, Keegan said:

This doesn’t even make sense.  A dispute resolution mechanism that is binding on both parties = arbitration.  Arbitration is a voluntary process and if mandatory arises from a contract - not federal legislation.

Unless you simply mean a court decision is binding, which we all knew... 

 

Actually - a dispute resolution mechanism is only binding if the parties agree or if mandated by law.  A dispute resolution mechanism could include mediation - which is non-binding, or parties could agree to non-binding arbitration, binding conciliation, binding arbitration...  A dispute resolution mechanism could also be created by way of legislation.  In fact some court statutes require parties to attend mediation first. 

[RS]

3 hours ago, juicy sushi said:

But seeing people literally dancing on a club's freshly dug, but not yet occupied grave with a token "I feel for the fans" isn't likely to do anything of any value and generally doesn't lead to anything positive.

Yup.

[Alex D]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

That's pretty damn unfair.  The Fury were an excellent PDL team before NASL and are mid-table both in attendance in the USL and performance wise. 

Don't go there cause anyone can make the same stupid comments on the first CPL team that doesn't draw 3,000 and is bottom of the league.

And if that happens it would be justified. But lets call a spade a spade here, the Fury were a typical PDL side drawing 200 fans a game. They showed no reason why they should be handed the reigns to a pro club other than they existed. 

 

Although I enjoyed KW United matches I'm happy they aren't involved in the CPL for these same reasons. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Alex D

[RS]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Another person went even further, suggesting that the Fury might have “half wanted (to be denied sanctioning).” The suggestion being that OSEG doesn’t really want to be involved in soccer anymore, but didn’t want to be the bad guy in fans’ eyes, least it hurt them with RedBlacks’ ticket sales.

Which totally makes sense given they are publicly touting new 3-yr contracts for some players and front office staff...