Ottawa CPL Club

[red card]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Sounds a lot more like a pro soccer team than most of the names they came up with in year one. Good to see them quickly moving out of their Wiz/Burn/Clash/Crew phase of trying to sound hip and going for branding that is not likely to resonate to any huge extent with people who already know and love soccer.

Nobody thought Wiz/Burn/Clash/Crew sounded hip. It was simply going with what was the standard naming convention for North American pro leagues. 

Post TFC, MLS teams finally realized that North Americanizing the sport in order to cater to people who didn't follow the sport was the wrong pathway to success. Now even the Crew is looking to rebrand. And hipsters have become attracted to the sport in part because it isn't like every other league in North America.

 

NYT had an article today that showed if you ate at an Indian restaurant in the past 10 years, you are more likely to vote for Sanders and were less likely to support Trump during the 2016 Republican primaries.  Questions about food, travel and the kinds of sports people engage in can be used as an index of someone’s local versus cosmopolitan orientation. So, if you have a local orientation, you're not going to be attracted to whatever the Ottawa club is named. For the cosmo types, Atletico naming reaffirms the club's connection to the world. Otherwise, it's time to invite your friends to an Indian restaurant to start the conversion.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/30/upshot/bernie-sanders-indian-food.html?te=1&nl=the-upshot&emc=edit_up_20200130&campaign_id=29&instance_id=15588&segment_id=20820&user_id=2d668403a0aef4a8ff3c4a74a221176c&regi_id=7702676820200130

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by red card

[RS]

I've said it before on this board, but it's really disheartening to see so many people rushing to devalue our Voyageurs Cup just because the CPL is now active.

The Voyageurs Cup is our national championship. The Impact are holders of the Voyageurs Cup by virtue of winning the Canadian Championship. Full stop.

I don't care how England does it. We aren't England. We're not even most of the rest of the world.

In Canada, we have two leagues that are considered D1, with no crossover between the two except for the Canadian Championship. Therefore, neither league can claim that their team is the national champion. The true national champion is the Voyageurs Cup holder, since all the pro clubs in the country are eligible (and the semi-pro clubs from the two biggest provinces).

Now let's get back to the topic at hand.

[dyslexic nam]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

We are not England. This is completely irrelevant.

It is an example so it isn't irrelevant.  I am not saying that because it is like that in England it must be like that here.  Take Italy as another data point.  Or Spain.  Or Germany.  In any of those countries, the widely recognized "national champion" is the one that wins the national domestic league - not the national cup competition.  

And, again, I am aware that the presence of MLS makes that a different scenario here, but a blanket statement that the V Cup winner is our national champion isn't necessarily convincing. 

[MtlMario]

1 hour ago, Chad_Impact said:

Damn.

I for one am happy with the name because     A- No need for translation and  B- Obviously the owners want it that way (it makes sense), I don't think they'd want  Ottawa United or Real Ottawa for example. 😁

[ted]

1 hour ago, gator said:

One last point on it, can we refer to the Cup as The Voyageurs Cup from now on, not the Canadian Championship, they are 2 different things?

You are both right and wrong.

I have ALWAYS argued that we should refer to the competition for the Voyageurs Cup as one of, "The Cup", "VCup", or "Voyageurs Cup".

That's because the "official" competition name is "<Insert sponsor> Canadian Championship". The only people who should say "Canadian Championship" are people paid to do so.
 

FANS, who paid for the cup in the first place, should prefer the name WE gave it.

[Obinna]

41 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

It is an example so it isn't irrelevant.  I am not saying that because it is like that in England it must be like that here.  Take Italy as another data point.  Or Spain.  Or Germany.  In any of those countries, the widely recognized "national champion" is the one that wins the national domestic league - not the national cup competition.  

And, again, I am aware that the presence of MLS makes that a different scenario here, but a blanket statement that the V Cup winner is our national champion isn't necessarily convincing. 

Point taken. The whole national champion discussion was irrelevant though. That was my main beef. 

And yes, the blanket statement made was contentious, but it doesn't even matter.

The only reason the national champion talk cropped up was because some poster was arguing that Forge should be placed ahead of the Whitecaps on that basis, which is a completely ridiculous suggestion. Plus it was off topic as this thread has nothing to do with Forge, much less who the national champion of a country is.

That was my context when I said "we are not England, what they do is irrelevant".

....it is irrelevant to the Ottawa, the Voyageurs cup, where Ottawa should enter the tournament and how they would affect the brackets. England has nothing to do with that. It is irrelevant.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Obinna

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

I'm old enough to remember that it was Real who were the Franco regime's favoured team rather than Atletico. That probably helps on not being hated.

Atlético is the south Madrid working class team and Real the north and suburban middle class team. But Real Madrid is also by far the most popular team in Spain. And it is still associated with power structures, although also on the centre left, not just the right. 

[dnina10]

44 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Point taken. The whole national champion discussion was irrelevant though. That was my main beef. 

And yes, the blanket statement made was contentious, but it doesn't even matter.

The only reason the national champion talk cropped up was because some poster was arguing that Forge should be placed ahead of the Whitecaps on that basis, which is a completely ridiculous suggestion. Plus it was off topic as this thread has nothing to do with Forge, much less who the national champion of a country is.

That was my context when I said "we are not England, what they do is irrelevant".

....it is irrelevant to the Ottawa, the Voyageurs cup, where Ottawa should enter the tournament and how they would affect the brackets. England has nothing to do with that. It is irrelevant.

I apologize for getting off of topic. That was my mistake. I guess I brought it up because I was still thinking about the Ottawa Fury, and their vacant place as a result of their disbanding, and since we were on the topic of whether or not Ottawa would or should participate in this year's Voyageur's Cup, I vented my frustration about the draw. I will keep that argument for the right thread. I apologize for getting carried away.

 

(I still stand by my point though about Forge getting the bye over Whitecaps, but like I said, I will leave that for the right thread).

Edited January 30, 2020 by dnina10

[Ansem]

3 hours ago, RS said:

I've said it before on this board, but it's really disheartening to see so many people rushing to devalue our Voyageurs Cup just because the CPL is now active.

The Voyageurs Cup is our national championship. The Impact are holders of the Voyageurs Cup by virtue of winning the Canadian Championship. Full stop.

I don't care how England does it. We aren't England. We're not even most of the rest of the world.

In Canada, we have two leagues that are considered D1, with no crossover between the two except for the Canadian Championship. Therefore, neither league can claim that their team is the national champion. The true national champion is the Voyageurs Cup holder, since all the pro clubs in the country are eligible (and the semi-pro clubs from the two biggest provinces).

Now let's get back to the topic at hand.

He's accurate but this also highlights why changes will eventually be needed.

An MLS team can become Canada's champions by winning at least 3 games out of 6. (No MLS games don't matter here)...worse, TFC could win it last year by winning only 2 games. CPL champions needs to win most of CPL games out of 28 + Championship finals.

Sure MLS is the stronger league but are they stronger to the point that winning 2 to 3 game should dwarfs the CPL champion? That's bad optics and ideally, if we were to use the justification of MLS season, then MLS should advocate to the USSF that those clubs may qualify through the league too.

What message are you broadcasting when Canada's champion only needs 2-3 games? My French cousins were scratching their head and were like "but Hamilton won like over 10 times more games..." 

I get why it was like that but with CPL existing, it will make less and less sense to carry on with the status quo. Best fix is CPL champ to get a CCL berth as well at the very least

Edited January 30, 2020 by Ansem

[CanadaFan123]

16 minutes ago, Ansem said:

He's accurate but this also highlights why changes will eventually be needed.

An MLS team can become Canada's champions by winning at least 3 games out of 6. (No MLS games don't matter here)...worse, TFC could win it last year by winning only 2 games.

CPL champions needs to win most of CPL games out of 28 + Championship finals.

From that optic...it sucks and that's why I'm hoping that a CCL berth is in the work as part of a CCL revamp which would keep everyone happy.

Ultimately in the future, CPL should be it for CCL berths while V Cup should get CL.

What message are you broadcasting when Canada's champion only needs 2-3 games? My French cousins were scratching their head and were like but Hamilton won like over 10 times more games... I get why it was like that but with CPL existing, it will make less and less sense to carry on with the status quo.

Are you talking about a hypothetical future where all 3 MLS teams are in CPL?  If so, sure... but as long as we have D1 clubs in two separate leagues, the Voyageurs Cup will be the only true championship.  It's not that difficult to understand - this is the one competition to crown the best team in the boundaries of Canada.  Therefore they are the champions until MLS teams are no more (or if for whatever reason they are no longer allowed in the V Cup).  

Essentially, the Voyageurs Cup is the purest sports trophy in North America.  It's not open (yet) but the fact it incorporates all viable leagues is special - it's like what the Stanley Cup was meant to be in it's origins.  We should be expanding it to an open cup in the next 5 or so years I'd imagine.  

It would be cool to expand the tournament and grow the level of CPL to the point where American MLS fans actually cheer on the 3 clubs in the hopes that their league can claim the champion.

Edited January 30, 2020 by CanadaFan123

[Ansem]

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Ansem

[MtlMario]

3 hours ago, MtlMario said:

I for one am happy with the name because     A- No need for translation and  B- Obviously the owners want it that way (it makes sense), I don't think they'd want  Ottawa United or Real Ottawa for example. 😁

Out of curiosity, what happens if the team is sold? Do they still keep (allowed) the name Atletico?

[PaulV]

12 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

Out of curiosity, what happens if the team is sold? Do they still keep (allowed) the name Atletico?

No idea what the legalities are, but their former team in India changed their name once Atletico were out of the picture. I would imagine both sides might prefer this.

Part and parcel of the risk when you name a team based upon a "brand", not much different than if the team was named "Ottawa Toyota FC" or something like that.

[MtlMario]

3 minutes ago, PaulV said:

No idea what the legalities are, but their former team in India changed their name once Atletico were out of the picture. I would imagine both sides might prefer this.

Part and parcel of the risk when you name a team based upon a "brand", not much different than if the team was named "Ottawa Toyota FC" or something like that.

That's the down side of this name. Imagine changing names after each ownership change.

[narduch]

Nef reporting that De Guzman is being considered for the club GM

Edited January 30, 2020 by narduch

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

 

If nothing else, Atletico Ottawa definitely start Their journey with some buzz surrounding them.  They will be loved by some and hated by others but it is sure as hell going to make things even more interesting this year.  

[Initial B]

5 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I like that we have the city name and I'm happy with the brand. Excited for a balanced schedule. Does this mean an end to the spring and fall season?

Probably not until they completely flesh out the CPL. Split seasons will make it easier to schedule while the League expands and provides justification for playoffs.

[Initial B]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

 

Please no. I like JdG, but I want him in an assistant GM role with someone he can learn from. I think he still needs two years under a seasoned GM before he takes over the reins full-time.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Initial B

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

That would be hilarious if it happens after some of the grief he got on here in recent years for doing no more than toe the corporate line. The reason he will have the inside track is that he has played in La Liga and probably speaks fluent Spanish given his family background.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

That would be hilarious if it happens after some of the grief he got on here in recent years for doing no more than toe the corporate line. The reason he will have the inside track is that he has played in La Liga and probably speaks fluent Spanish given his family background.

He doesn't speak Spanish because of the family background don't think, I could be mistaken though. In any case he's not fluent but good. 

I think Atlético might find his pro background in Spain comfortable and may not care about padt BS, I know for sure he's remembered, he was not an anonymous presence in LaLiga. 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Unnamed Trialist

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

That would be hilarious if it happens after some of the grief he got on here in recent years for doing no more than toe the corporate line. The reason he will have the inside track is that he has played in La Liga and probably speaks fluent Spanish given his family background.

Jamaican and Filipino? 

If he speaks Spanish, it will be because he played in Spain for four years.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Just now, SthMelbRed said:

Jamaican and Filipino? 

If he speaks Spanish, it will be because he played in Spain for four years.

Some Filipinos have basic Spanish but many just have the odd words. Do you think they spoke Filipino at home? 

[SthMelbRed]

3 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Some Filipinos have basic Spanish but many just have the odd words. Do you think they spoke Filipino at home? 

In Scarborough, with a Jamaican mother and Filipino father, I just assumed that they spoke English at home, although I'm sure they may have spoken some Tagalog, as well.

Edited January 31, 2020 by SthMelbRed
added more

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

He doesn't speak Spanish because of the family background don't think, I could be mistaken though. In any case he's not fluent but good....

The Filipinos I have met through soccer in Canada may have been unrepresentative then. Spanish seemed to quickly be the main language when Spanish speaking players were around. The Fury involvement, speaking Spanish well and knowing the soccer cultures of both Canada and Spain inside out should get him on the interview short list.

[downtownordinary]

CanPL website speculating on which players might be available for Ottawa:

https://canpl.ca/article/6-ottawa-area-ex-fury-players-that-could-sign-with-cpls-new-team

A couple others I thought of off the top of my head that have ties to the Ottawa area or former Fury players that for the most part don't seem to be signed elsewhere at the moment. 

Callum Irving
Jeff Addai
Anthony Legendre
Mallan Roberts
Adonijah Reid
Benson Fazili
Elliot Simmons
Shaan Hundal
Robert Boskovic