Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, dnina10 said: I don't know where you got that information from, but it is definitely wrong. Basically anywhere in the world, the national champions is the team that won the national premier league, not the national cup... Anywhere else in the world doesn't have members of the national association playing in the D1 league of a neighbouring country. For that reason, the Canadian Championship is the premier club competition in a Canadian context and is used to determine the Canadian entry for the CONCACAF Champions League. Kent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cblake Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, dnina10 said: I don't know where you got that information from, but it is definitely wrong. Basically anywhere in the world, the national champions is the team that won the national premier league, not the national cup. Is it a more impressive achievement to win the cup? Depending on the cup, yes. However, do not get confused, as I said it correctly; Forge FC are the national champions. To the second bolded part, I agree with you. That is what the CSA are trying to do this year. It would have been interesting to see if Ottawa Fury would have gotten the bye over the Whitecaps if they did not fold. They already have the semifinalists in from last year; Toronto FC, Montreal Impact, and Cavalry FC. They wanted to have a fourth team still get a bye, which is okay with me. What I cannot understand is how the Whitecaps got the bye over Forge, and I pointed out why. That, in my opinion, should have been the next tiebreaker. Keep in mind that Forge FC will be competing in the CONCACAF League as well, spending a lot more energy than the Whitecaps will be, as they will only be playing in MLS and the Canadian Championship. That is something else no one has pointed out. Exactly. I was going to say the exact same thing, but you beat me to it. Going back to RS's point, I guess Atalanta FC are the national champions of the US, since they won the US Open Cup last year, even though the Seattle Sounders won MLS. Even if TFC did end up winning MLS, I would still say that the Sounders are the American Champions as they went the furthest of any American team in MLS. I would have liked to have seen the CONCACAF League spot gone to the runner up of the V Cup but I get why they did it the way they did.I like using the league standings better than the results of such a small sample size that are the results of the previous year's tournament. It is interesting to see how the US Open Cup is being setup this year. For the first time the MLS teams are entering at the different stages due to MLS expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaFan123 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: Anywhere else in the world doesn't have members of the national association playing in the D1 league of a neighbouring country. For that reason, the Canadian Championship is the premier club competition in a Canadian context and is used to determine the Canadian entry for the CONCACAF Champions League. He's right (unfortunately)*. This isn't really up for debate so long as there is no connection between CPL/MLS. And it's awesome - we are the only country in the world to do it this way as far as I know. That makes OUR competition special and it should be embraced. *Note: This will not stop me from parading a "Forge FC - Champions of Canada" banner into BMO field should they meet in the final. Kent, dnina10, MtlMario and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said: I am not so sure this is something you can just proclaim. In the 2017-18 season: Chelsea won the FA CUP. Man City won the EPL. Who do you think most viewed as the Champions of England? And I know the presence of MLS makes it a different equation, but the reality is that the national champion is pretty much universally identified as the winner of the national league - not the governing association's cup competition. We are not England. This is completely irrelevant. Edited January 30, 2020 by Obinna Kent, RS and Ozzie_the_parrot 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 I was agreeing with Rudi but @dyslexic nam and @dnina10 have valid points, the Champion of our domestic league (Forge) are the Canadian Champions and Impact are Cup holders if you look at it that way, of course this is open to debate but Impact did not win our league! dnina10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 41 minutes ago, dnina10 said: I don't know where you got that information from, but it is definitely wrong. Basically anywhere in the world, the national champions is the team that won the national premier league, not the national cup. Is it a more impressive achievement to win the cup? Depending on the cup, yes. However, do not get confused, as I said it correctly; Forge FC are the national champions. To the second bolded part, I agree with you. That is what the CSA are trying to do this year. It would have been interesting to see if Ottawa Fury would have gotten the bye over the Whitecaps if they did not fold. They already have the semifinalists in from last year; Toronto FC, Montreal Impact, and Cavalry FC. They wanted to have a fourth team still get a bye, which is okay with me. What I cannot understand is how the Whitecaps got the bye over Forge, and I pointed out why. That, in my opinion, should have been the next tiebreaker. Keep in mind that Forge FC will be competing in the CONCACAF League as well, spending a lot more energy than the Whitecaps will be, as they will only be playing in MLS and the Canadian Championship. That is something else no one has pointed out. Exactly. I was going to say the exact same thing, but you beat me to it. Going back to RS's point, I guess Atalanta FC are the national champions of the US, since they won the US Open Cup last year, even though the Seattle Sounders won MLS. Even if TFC did end up winning MLS, I would still say that the Sounders are the American Champions as they went the furthest of any American team in MLS. Seriously? You cannot understand that? Forge finished below the Whitecaps last year. End of story. And yes if Ottawa didn't fold they should have been given the bye, but they did. If you have an axe to grind about York9 or HFX, fair enough. Forge do not belong in this convo at all. Matter fact, the Cup was only brought up due to Ottawa's possible participation. That spurred a conversation into where they'd fit, which is still on-topic. All this who is national champion nonsense doesn't belong in this thread. RS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, gator said: I was agreeing with Rudi but @dyslexic nam and @dnina10 have valid points, the Champion of our domestic league (Forge) are the Canadian Champions and Impact are Cup holders if you look at it that way, of course this is open to debate but Impact did not win our league! Yes Forge are national Champions and Impact are national cup winners. We get it. None of that matters. Forge still belong below the Whitecaps for this tournament (and York9 and HFX, to be fair). This national champion talk is muddying the waters unnecessarily. We were talking about where Ottawa fits into the Cup, if they were to participate.... InBorjanWeTrust and RS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloth8 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 According to Jeff Hunt, they have a list of 4 or 5 coaching candidates. That being said, they may sign players before a GM or coach is hired as "No matter what scheme a coach is going to run, you want good players." https://ottawasun.com/sports/soccer/soccer-is-back-atletico-madrid-jeff-hunt-behind-ottawa-expansion-team-in-cpl Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad_Impact Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Damn. Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, Chad_Impact said: Damn. @Unnamed Trialist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Chad_Impact said: Damn. Sounds a lot more like a pro soccer team than most of the names they came up with in year one. Good to see them quickly moving out of their Wiz/Burn/Clash/Crew phase of trying to sound hip and going for branding that is not likely to resonate to any huge extent with people who already know and love soccer. Edited January 30, 2020 by Ozzie_the_parrot toontownman, dyslexic nam, IAmPappy and 3 others 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 One last point on it, can we refer to the Cup as The Voyageurs Cup from now on, not the Canadian Championship, they are 2 different things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 The Voyageurs Cup is the trophy awarded to the winner of the Canadian Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: Sounds a lot more like a pro soccer team than most of the names they came up with in year one. Good to see them quickly moving out of their Wiz/Burn/Clash/Crew phase of trying to sound hip and going for branding that is not likely to resonate to any huge extent with people who already know and love soccer. Very relevant. All those teams were named 25 years ago. CDNFootballer, dyslexic nam, Bison44 and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: The Voyageurs Cup is the trophy awarded to the winner of the Canadian Championship. Things have changed since we now have a national league though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 I always called the tournament the Voyaguers Cup. ted, NVsoccer, Obinna and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschamp86 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, gator said: Things have changed since we now have a national league though! Technically we have Canadian Premier League and Ontario League1. So you would think the second division will end up being Canadian Championship. Then it will be REALLY confusing! gator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 26 minutes ago, Chad_Impact said: Damn. I must admit that I find it odd, it is forced, and I am perfectly comfortable with Spanish, I teach and write in the language. So I am not saying it is a good name, it isn't. I don't even think it has exotic charm, like if you had some poetic sounding Spanish word. It is drab. But the condition for Atlético was to have their branding clear, and they already showed this intention in India and Mexico. Otherwise, the investment does not make sense for them. So I take it that way. It is the first name of this sort we have seen in Canadian soccer. They are a team with character, so I don't think that fans in Ottawa will find it hard to make an association with the mother club, even in Spain it is respected enough and only has die-hard Real Madrid fans that hate it. Andrew W, Obinna, red card and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said: ...They are a team with character, so I don't think that fans in Ottawa will find it hard to make an association with the mother club, even in Spain it is respected enough and only has die-hard Real Madrid fans that hate it. I'm old enough to remember that it was Real who were the Franco regime's favoured team rather than Atletico. That probably helps on not being hated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 I like that we have the city name and I'm happy with the brand. Excited for a balanced schedule. Does this mean an end to the spring and fall season? Ams1984 and Obinna 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cblake Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, gator said: Things have changed since we now have a national league though! It has not changed though, that is up to the CSA and as of today they have not made that choice. As long as we have two pro entities in this country and one champions league spot this is how we determine a Canadian champion. Has the CSA ever gone on record and said they view the MLS teams on the same level as CPL. Anything on record here. The three MLS teams are are on completely different level here. What would happen if they do say the MLS teams will always be in the QF, or whatever, until its actually said we have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said: I like that we have the city name and I'm happy with the brand. Excited for a balanced schedule. Does this mean an end to the spring and fall season? I want confirmation on quadruple header Saturdays! Edited January 30, 2020 by narduch dnina10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said: I like that we have the city name and I'm happy with the brand. Excited for a balanced schedule. Does this mean an end to the spring and fall season? Me too. It was neat that the CPL did something different and moved away from city names, but I feel they pulled a little too far in that direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad_Impact Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 21 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said: But the condition for Atlético was to have their branding clear, and they already showed this intention in India and Mexico. Otherwise, the investment does not make sense for them. So I take it that way. It is the first name of this sort we have seen in Canadian soccer. I get the branding issue and how Atleti would want people to easily recognize their relationship with the team but, it seems to me if you are sharing team colors, jersey style, and logo shape, the difference between Atletico and Athletic becomes minuscule in regards to recognition. Ottawa Athletic/Ottawa Athlétique just seems more authentic to me as a club name, while still keeping the relationship clear. Anyways, it’s not a huge issue. Atletico Ottawa isn’t the worst name in the world. I’m thrilled to see such a big club share the vision of what this league can become one day. CDNFootballer, youllneverwalkalone, johnyb and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Chad_Impact said: I get the branding issue and how Atleti would want people to easily recognize their relationship with the team but, it seems to me if you are sharing team colors, jersey style, and logo shape, the difference between Atletico and Athletic becomes minuscule in regards to recognition. Ottawa Athletic/Ottawa Athlétique just seems more authentic to me as a club name, while still keeping the relationship clear. I think others have mentioned that there is trademark issues and this organization has been pretty aggressive in protecting their brand. As far as the French version ... unsure if there is any issues, although correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the direct translation of an "athletic club" be Sportif and Athlétique be more towards an individual being athletic or what we call track and field (athletics)? Edited January 30, 2020 by Andrew W Added stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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