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Ottawa CPL Club

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5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Atletico Madrid are an order of magnitude larger as a club than Rayo Vallecano. I would have been posting stuff along those lines if it had turned out to be Espanyol, but having Atletico involved is a massive step forward for the league in credibility terms. This type of investment wasn't part of the original CSL playbook that often provides a feeling of deja vu where CanPL is concerned and not in a good way.

Actually, Espanyol has pockets as deep as Atlético, Chinese ownership and a great new stadium, one of the nicest mid-sized facilities in Europe. They would have been a perfect fit as well. They are just chronic underacheivers--but like Atlético Madrid in fact, whose nickname is "los colchoneros", the mattresses, because they are always underneath and there is always another on top. 

In any case, a lot of At Madrid fans I am reading on forums here are cynical about this move and the one to Mexico as well. Some argue it is a way of unnecessarily diverting income from the team in Spain, when the club still needs more to really compete with Barça and Madrid. Others say it is the Gil family's way of diverting benefits--they are making money, profits-- into investment, to reduce taxables, or even worse, a form of laundering. In this line many argue it will be short-lived, as the team has no long-term strategy. They don't even need a foothold in Mexico as they have a long history of signing top Mexicans with no difficulties. They don't need San Luis to do that. 

I am not second guessing the move, I am thrilled by it, but I do think we have to be wary and see to what degree they play by the same rules, and show the same sort of apparently long-term committment the original 7 have--since unlike those teams, who need it, the One Soccer deal is chicken feed for them.

 

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Seems like Clanachan & Co. are on something of a winning streak no?  

The whole season one launch was at every layer all helter-skelter with a lot of stumbles, bumbles, trips & falls HOWEVER, at the end, as a whole, they managed to pull it all off rather successfully I thought.  And we are getting a feeling that so far this close season the powers that be are, behind the curtain, hard at work making the improvements that are necessary.   

You can narrow your focus onto any small degree of the CPL horizon as much as you like to find faults and shortcomings, but the broad sweep of that vista is looking very attractive.  I think so and at least one of the giants of European football is thinking so as well.

Patiently awaiting for this along with the other expansion announcements which are rapidly coming.

Cheeta

P.S.  Scotiabank Canadian Premier League dose have a ring to it, doesn't it?  

    

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I agree with Cheeta above that the overall state of things is amazing, we are so lucky to have seen this come through. Which is why it is much better to see growth, movement, every season, just a bit, especially when it comes to expansion.

We are also proving that in a relatively short period a team can be put together. Maybe a team needs to be ready before December, but still: we now have the protocols and experience in place to see a team competiting without needing even a year's lead time.

We need another 5 cities to ride the wave, as with 12 teams we have a strong-enough structure. I don't even think 14 is necessary. I do not even think we'll get to a real second tier ever, or pro-releg either. A twelve team league with stability is fine by me. 

One reason to keep the expansion fees down is to ensure this, as if we price ourselves out we'll simply stall growth, as what we really need are investors improving stadiums, spending their millions on facilities, and players. If money is limited, let the ambitious owner groups in at reasonable fees, but just demand they have a long-term committment, improve facilities, do the right marketing, grow youth soccer in their area, and be competitive. That benefits the entire league more than the existing teams dividing up a few more million between them.

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UT does not think 14 clubs is necessary. What kind of thinking is this? If the demand is there and the support exists, necessity does not factor into the equation. 

Anyhow, back to the topic at hand. 

I am happy Atleti are investing into the league and happy for Ottawa, but, and maybe I'm just being greedy, you'd think Atleti would have went after the lucrative GTA market instead. Perhaps this might be the first of many foreign footholds that will occur.

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2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Actually, Espanyol has pockets as deep as Atlético, Chinese ownership and a great new stadium, one of the nicest mid-sized facilities in Europe. They would have been a perfect fit as well. They are just chronic underacheivers--but like Atlético Madrid in fact, whose nickname is "los colchoneros", the mattresses, because they are always underneath and there is always another on top. 

In any case, a lot of At Madrid fans I am reading on forums here are cynical about this move and the one to Mexico as well. Some argue it is a way of unnecessarily diverting income from the team in Spain, when the club still needs more to really compete with Barça and Madrid. Others say it is the Gil family's way of diverting benefits--they are making money, profits-- into investment, to reduce taxables, or even worse, a form of laundering. In this line many argue it will be short-lived, as the team has no long-term strategy. They don't even need a foothold in Mexico as they have a long history of signing top Mexicans with no difficulties. They don't need San Luis to do that. 

I am not second guessing the move, I am thrilled by it, but I do think we have to be wary and see to what degree they play by the same rules, and show the same sort of apparently long-term committment the original 7 have--since unlike those teams, who need it, the One Soccer deal is chicken feed for them.

 

Did Ozzie steal your login? Had to scroll up for a second then!

Good info though and never discount the possibilities! 

 

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1 hour ago, toontownman said:

Did Ozzie steal your login? Had to scroll up for a second then!

Good info though and never discount the possibilities! 

If there is widespread pessimism amongst At Madrid fans, and I report it, that is not the same as being fundamentally pessimistic about CPL. 

You do have to consider that if At Madrid were to have a rough patch in terms of results, and their revenue fell, they could respond by calling in all bets and pulling out of investments that meant less to their immediate fan and sponsorship base.

That said, I suppose there is no reason to think that the committment of a foreign investor is any less solid than that of a local investor. You could argue they have less engagement with the local context. But history has proven that even locals can abandon a project quickly, that leaving your own neighbours without a team need not be a problem for some. 

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2 hours ago, Macksam said:

UT does not think 14 clubs is necessary. What kind of thinking is this? If the demand is there and the support exists, necessity does not factor into the equation. 

Anyhow, back to the topic at hand. 

I am happy Atleti are investing into the league and happy for Ottawa, but, and maybe I'm just being greedy, you'd think Atleti would have went after the lucrative GTA market instead. Perhaps this might be the first of many foreign footholds that will occur.

I’ve always been a bit less bullish on pro/rel too though.

I’d rather have say 16 teams in a D1 Canadian League than 8 in D1 and 8 in D2 or something like that.

Mostly I’m more interested in our 7 team league become 8 and eventually 12-14.  If we can get there and have stability then I think Canadian Soccer will be in great shape and we become a perennial World Cup team.  That would make me happy.

 

edit- my *dream* scenario is a 16 team CanPL with both Montreal and Vancouver moving over and having 4 D3 leagues in BC, Alberta, Ontario and Quebec with a total of 40-50 D3 teams.  That would be Canadian Soccer at its best I think.

Edited by baulderdash77

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7 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You do have to consider that if At Madrid were to have a rough patch in terms of results, and their revenue fell, they could respond by calling in all bets and pulling out of investments that meant less to their immediate fan and sponsorship base.

Yeah, just teasing 😛

I agree, especially with foreign investment being no less of a risk than Canadian. I also do think the above is likely an extreme. If that was any type of possibility you would think they would never invest somewhere to begin with. Both sister clubs have to fund themselves and should be self sufficient entities. They would surely research that and make sure that is the case before they set up another club. 

These type of sister club purchases are surely more about global marketing than much else. As mentioned investment in the CPL is very minimal output for good potential gains. The money right now is a like buying a coffee for a club like them.

Coming back to the foreign investment. I think the CPL can gain most from this and also believe and have trust in those running CPL vetting ownerships to make sure investment is long term and viable in every aspect to benefit the league and Canadian soccer. 

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I wanted to comment a bit on Mediapro-At Madrid relations. Which by all accounts seem to be very good. The owner of the club Miguel Angel Gil Marin, son of a former owner, seems to have a positive relationship with Mediapro.

When it comes to La Liga rights, it matters little what sort of relations they have, as all clubs accept the deal, negotiated by the league and not separately. They can complain, but little can be done to really pressure for an alternative tv deal.

But where this breaks down, or where you see what some clubs really think about Mediapro, is with the women's league, now called Primera Iberdrola, as One Soccer subscribers may know. 

At Madrid is one of the top teams, they've won the last three leagues. Barça and Athletic Bilbao are the other strong sides of this century, with Levante maybe fourth in importance. Real Madrid does not have a team quite yet. 

The tv rights were negotiated last spring by an association of 12 clubs, including At Madrid and all but four in top flight. Those opting out were FC Barcelona, Ath Bilbao, Madrid CFF, and Tacón, this latter now affiliated with Real Madrid and will likely become their team starting next season. According to Mediapro, the four teams opting out cannot show any match involving any of the other 12 teams. Thing is, they do, so that Mediapro took Barça to court for showing the home match Barça-Atletico last September. In turn, Mediapro never offers any match involving one of the four "rebel" sides, as the OneSoccer deal makes clear. Meaning, you can't get the best matches in Spanish football on OneSoccer, as they would always have to involve one of the top 3 sides. 

I think that the idea that At Madrid is in with the rest of the women's teams on the deal with Mediapro, does not try to negotiate its own deal though they could, and even being the strongest team potentially in the league (with the biggest potential fanbase as well), suggests that the relationship is good. So it would be likely that At Madrid has entered the CPL through a Mediapro mediation, when that would not have been possible for Barça or Real Madrid. 

 

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^ Yep, Jeff Hunt going on record that CPL will have Ottawa as 8th team in 2020.  He is confirming all the rumours except which foreign club is behind this venture and that work has been going on behind the scenes for months.

Indeed, this seems like the most official statement possible without having a CPL announcement.

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9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The focus primarily should be on having high quality soccer and not constantly suggesting that our sport has something to apologize for or change to make it work in Canada like David Clanachan does with all the nonsense about diving. Soccer is the greatest sport in the world bar none and will succeed on its merits in any country if played to a high enough standard. As for the strategy working I think something like the Atletico Madrid investment would have helped considerably with York 9, where things clearly aren't working well so far.

I agree with him on this one. Diving in Soccer is an embarrassment to the sport and is one of the few things about the sport that needs to be fixed.

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Le Fury, c’était le projet de John Pugh. Je vais prendre le relais. Je n’ai pas perdu ma passion du sport.

The Fury was John Pugh’s project. I’m going to take the reigns (?). I haven’t lost my passion for sport.

À ceux qui disent qu’il se fait tard pour mettre une équipe professionnelle sur le terrain dès avril 2020, Hunt répond que le club européen a toutes les ressources nécessaires pour meubler un alignement en un rien de temps.

For those who say it’s late to put a professional team on the field for April 2020, Hunt responds that the European club has all the resources necessary to put things together in no time.

Edited by BuzzAndSting

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44 minutes ago, johnyb said:

I agree with him on this one. Diving in Soccer is an embarrassment to the sport and is one of the few things about the sport that needs to be fixed.

If you want I can try to argue (or explain) why diving in soccer is more natural and much less shameful than embellishment in hockey or, more flagrant, flopping in basketball. It has to do with a loose ball that is not held and manipulating it with the same instruments you use to keep balance (feet, legs).

You watch b-ball now and everytime a player drives to the hoop he screams, as if hit, or touched, whether true or not. Arms flail. Only because the game is changing and has gone outside this has not gone overboard, but it still happens 20-odd times a game. Or maybe more. Then there are those threes taken with little time left on the shot clock, in forced position, and the shooter trying to buy a foul by kicking out his feet or leaning into a legit defensive move (referring especially to you know who).

Being obsessed about diving in soccer, over and above other problems in the game, is simply to have a personal complex, it is not the sport's problem.

In any case, what we got from Clanachan trying to dictate the game at the start of last season was a bunch of terrible challenges and violent plays, many of which were not sanctioned on the field. Defying the rules of the game. It was irresponsible of Clanachan to try to condition a way of playing, through reffing, that resulted in violation of FIFA rules. Irresponsible? The refs should have told him to screw off, that they had an obligation to the rules of the game, not some Commissioner making up alternatives. Fortunately the problem was fixed by the end of May and refs did their job, for the most part, excepting a few notorious games and plays.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You do have to consider that if At Madrid were to have a rough patch in terms of results, and their revenue fell, they could respond by calling in all bets and pulling out of investments that meant less to their immediate fan and sponsorship base.

This is exactly what happened with Rayo OKC. The Spanish club got relegated, had a turnover in upper management, and they decided to retrench and cut OKC adrift. As much as I want soccer in Ottawa, I'm worried about this eventuality.

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1 hour ago, johnyb said:

I agree with him on this one. Diving in Soccer is an embarrassment to the sport and is one of the few things about the sport that needs to be fixed.

I'm also on team get-rid-of-diving.

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2 hours ago, Initial B said:

This is exactly what happened with Rayo OKC. The Spanish club got relegated, had a turnover in upper management, and they decided to retrench and cut OKC adrift. As much as I want soccer in Ottawa, I'm worried about this eventuality.

I used to hear Barça board members going on about having an MLS team, and they clearly had no idea what they were talking about. Starting with what to do with a massive Nike deal in a league that is all Adidas. I think they simply do not think it through. Having multiple teams does not really help Manchester City, unless it allows for a stronger financial base; fan bases are different, I bet there are more United fans who go to NYCFC games than City fans. City if Puma and NYCFC in the Adidas deal, can't imagine either brand is happy with sharing the client.

Maybe if you are Red Bull it is different. 

I honestly do not understand what Atletico thinks they are going to get out of this. Maybe they think they can drive some merchandising, I don't get the business side of it at all. 

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3 hours ago, Initial B said:

This is exactly what happened with Rayo OKC. The Spanish club got relegated, had a turnover in upper management, and they decided to retrench and cut OKC adrift. As much as I want soccer in Ottawa, I'm worried about this eventuality.

I speculate, or well would hope, that given all that talk by the league about a 10 year plan, and getting commitment from owners to be willing to make losses for a significant time, they could get the same commitment from Atletico. But wonder what that might look like? Investments up front? Contract with penalties for pulling out?

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8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

...I honestly do not understand what Atletico thinks they are going to get out of this. Maybe they think they can drive some merchandising, I don't get the business side of it at all. 

Think it's safe to assume that Mediapro will have been heavily involved and at the very least will have encouraged Atletico to get involved. Until/unless we are able to follow the money a bit more clearly it's probably unwise to speculate any further.

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2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Think it's safe to assume that Mediapro will have been heavily involved and at the very least will have encouraged Atletico to get involved. Until/unless we are able to follow the money a bit more clearly it's probably unwise to speculate any further.

So this is the time when it's inappropriate to speculate on something that we know nothing about? Mate, have you seen your posting history?

*can someone whom he hasn't put on ignore please quote this so the dickhead might see this. 😉 

Edited by SthMelbRed
...

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3 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

So this is the time when it's inappropriate to speculate on something that we know nothing about? Mate, have you seen your posting history?

*can someone whom he hasn't put on ignore please quote this so the dickhead might see this. 😉 

The entire board speculates on things we know nothing about, and has for decades. So basically you are calling all of us dickheads. Including yourself. Good show.

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8 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The entire board speculates on things we know nothing about, and has for decades. So basically you are calling all of us dickheads. Including yourself. Good show.

I'm calling the guy who endlessly speculates negatively on CanPL topics, now calling for restraint on speculating on a positive development the dickhead. But well done on your excellent reading comprehension, there.

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38 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

I'm calling the guy who endlessly speculates negatively on CanPL topics, now calling for restraint on speculating on a positive development the dickhead. But well done on your excellent reading comprehension, there.

Of your last twenty posts, half have some factual base, half are speculative.

And whenever you get in a hole, you taunt the other poster with your typical "Have your been hanging out with the Parrot?" or similar, your go-to argument. When you are as in the sky as he is. 

So speculation, trolling, cheap shots--and then the other half worthwhile informed posts. I can understand why you feel comfortable on this board, I do too.

 

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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