Ottawa CPL Club

[narduch]

10 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Bill Manning is in charge of Toronto FC, not MLSE.  If MLSE were to buy a CPL team to add to their portfolio of sports teams, it's no different from what Manchester City or Red Bull are doing.

Bill Manning also runs the Argos!

Do you really think he wouldn't have been involved in a CPL farm team?

Someone made a good point earlier, based on how the 3 MLS clubs have treated their USL clubs, do we really trust them to do a better job running a CPL team?

[CDNFootballer]

 

[InBorjanWeTrust]

Care to elaborate a bit further there dear Kurt??

[Watchmen]

$9 million is more than anyone wants to pay, except possibly a large European team.

[IAmPappy]

11 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

$9 million is more than anyone wants to pay, except possibly a large European team.

Curious. What would you consider a fair range?

Edited January 9, 2020 by IAmPappy

[Watchmen]

Just now, IAmPappy said:

Curious, what would you consider a fair range?

As the league refuses to reveal any numbers, impossible to say.  But $9 million at this stage always felt high.  Based on a reporter for the league saying all expansion talk has gone quiet except for the city that has a large European club circling, I'd speculate that investors think that's too high too.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

2 hours ago, Lofty said:

I continue to be baffled by this expansion fee stuff. Surely every extra club makes the entire CPL stronger; in which case putting up a barrier to entry seems self defeating....

It makes sense if the league is franchise based in a similar manner to MLS as some people in a position to know have claimed.

[Ams1984]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

It makes sense if the league is franchise based in a similar manner to MLS as some people in a position to know have claimed.

I’m not sure that it has to do with franchisee/franchisor stuff necessarily. In fact, this league appears not to have a franchise based structure. Instead, I’d suggest that the expansion fee is probably primarily the new club(s) buying into their shares of CSB. 

[ted]

11 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Based on a reporter for the league saying all expansion talk has gone quiet except for the city that has a large European club circling, I'd speculate that investors think that's too high too.

Or the simple explanation: it is too late for 2020 and too early to have to talk about 2021. 

[Watchmen]

4 hours ago, ted said:

Or the simple explanation: it is too late for 2020 and too early to have to talk about 2021. 

MLS has named their expansion teams for 2021 and 2022.

Of course, there's another explanation for so much expansion talk by the league all the time and it's pointed out by the same author: it drives interest for the league.

[Bison44]

Or they could be just responding to us hardcoes asking endlessly....who's next, maybe 2020...2021?? what about ottawa?? Will there be a team in Quebec?? What about Saskatoon?? 

[Watchmen]

40 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Or they could be just responding to us hardcoes asking endlessly....who's next, maybe 2020...2021?? what about ottawa?? Will there be a team in Quebec?? What about Saskatoon?? 

Well, yeah. That's what I meant by it drives interest in the league. That it keeps the most active people still active.

[CDNFootballer]

15 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

It makes sense if the league is franchise based in a similar manner to MLS as some people in a position to know have claimed.

Not this again, give it up, league itself, who knows more than anyone what it is, has said CPL is a club based league, NOT franchise and NOT single entity.

MLS is a single entity league with business units, not clubs. USL is a franchise league.

[Bison44]

Trolls gotta troll...... soon enough we'll have the endless attendance debate of 2020, complete with reddit pictures.  

 

[JamboAl]

Amongst all the previous discussion, I am having difficulty distinguishing between a “franchise” and a “club” in the CPL.  The fee to be paid to enter the league...is that not a franchise fee?  And if an owner of a club wishes to (God forbid) relocate a club, is the owner allowed to do that within the CPL rules?  If the answer is yes, is that not a franchise?  

[IAmPappy]

10 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Amongst all the previous discussion, I am having difficulty distinguishing between a “franchise” and a “club” in the CPL.  The fee to be paid to enter the league...is that not a franchise fee?  And if an owner of a club wishes to (God forbid) relocate a club, is the owner allowed to do that within the CPL rules?  If the answer is yes, is that not a franchise?  

I’m going to regret waddling into this conversation, but here goes: I view franchise vs club in the context of territorial exclusivity. 

In a (North American) club model, you still pay a free to enter the league, but that’s to buy into a piece of the pie (CSB, for example). You have the right to relocate you club but you don’t have territorial exclusivity. If Valour want to move to Skydome in Toronto (bad example), there’s nothing that Forge or York 9 can do about it. All land is free. 

In a franchise model, the NHL for example, you buy into the broader business pie, but you also get territorial rights. The Bruins could relocate if they like, but not anywhere in southern Ontario because the Leafs and Sabres own  the land. Dominos does the same thing — only one franchise per neighborhood. 

So, is CPL a club or a franchise model?

Edited January 10, 2020 by IAmPappy

[Ams1984]

34 minutes ago, IAmPappy said:

I’m going to regret waddling into this conversation, but here goes: I view franchise vs club in the context of territorial exclusivity. 

In a (North American) club model, you still pay a free to enter the league, but that’s to buy into a piece of the pie (CSB, for example). You have the right to relocate you club but you don’t have territorial exclusivity. If Valour want to move to Skydome in Toronto (bad example), there’s nothing that Forge or York 9 can do about it. All land is free. 

In a franchise model, the NHL for example, you buy into the broader business pie, but you also get territorial rights. The Bruins could relocate if they like, but not anywhere in southern Ontario because the Leafs and Sabres won the land. Dominos does the same thing — only one franchise per neighborhood. 

So, is CPL a club or a franchise model?

Apt, but there’s also more to it than that; it’s also about the nature of the juridic entities involved. In a club situation, the juridic persons (corporations probably) are distinct entities whereas in a franchise situation they aren’t really. To stick with your fast food example, the franchisor leases the right to use its intellectual property and business model to franchisees. There is no evidence to suggest that the CPL operates in the capacity of franchisor like MLS or the NFL. 

[JamboAl]

11 minutes ago, Ams1984 said:

Apt, but there’s also more to it than that; it’s also about the nature of the juridic entities involved. In a club situation, the juridic persons (corporations probably) are distinct entities whereas in a franchise situation they aren’t really. To stick with your fast food example, the franchisor leases the right to use its intellectual property and business model to franchisees. There is no evidence to suggest that the CPL operates in the capacity of franchisor like MLS or the NFL. 

I think this is probably where I can't tell the difference.  Aren't the owners of the teams in the traditional North American leagues distinct entities?  I can distinguish in the MLS model where the players are "owned" by the league and assigned to the teams (in a way), except for homegrown talent like Davies.  But aren't the individual owners of the MLS teams not also distinct entities?

Fundamentally, I can't tell what makes the CPL teams not franchises or what doesn't make MLS teams, clubs.  I feel like the 6 year old kid who is always asking why?  

Edited January 10, 2020 by JamboAl

[Bison44]

Ughhh this is why he brings it up.  A lot of people like to think of it as local snuggly clubs where we all sing and drink together after the game and not shitty faceless corporate franchises.   All he has to do is drop a goofy comment like "this proves its more of a franchise model like MLS" and he knows it will be 10 pages of debate and teeth knashing.  

[SthMelbRed]

If a player's contract can be traded from one team to another, for other players, cash, or draft picks, you're running a North American-style franchise league. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

7 hours ago, JamboAl said:

I think this is probably where I can't tell the difference.  Aren't the owners of the teams in the traditional North American leagues distinct entities?  I can distinguish in the MLS model where the players are "owned" by the league and assigned to the teams (in a way), except for homegrown talent like Davies.  But aren't the individual owners of the MLS teams not also distinct entities?

Fundamentally, I can't tell what makes the CPL teams not franchises or what doesn't make MLS teams, clubs.  I feel like the 6 year old kid who is always asking why?  

It's all a game with semantics to a large extent but there clearly are important differences on how CanPL and MLS operate with respect to player contracts that can explain why the club terminology could be justified to a certain extent, but lofty's point was a valid one. If the entry of an extra club helps to strengthen the league overall at this point why would they have to pay a fee comparable (with inflation factored in) to what MLSE paid to get into MLS back in 2007 to get in? There have also been people claiming that Bob Young holds territorial rights to Kitchener-Waterloo and the Pacific FC group holds territorial rights to lower mainland BC. If that's accurate along with the $8 or 9 million expansion fee it's difficult to see how a franchise type business model is not involved to a large extent given the very obvious parallels between CSB and SUM.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[IAmPappy]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

It's all a game with semantics to a large extent but there clearly are important differences on how CanPL and MLS operate with respect to player contracts that can explain why the club terminology could be justified to a certain extent, but lofty's point was a valid one. If the entry of an extra club helps to strengthen the league overall at this point why would they have to pay a fee comparable (with inflation factored in) to what MLSE paid to get into MLS back in 2007 to get in? There have also been people claiming that Bob Young holds territorial rights to Kitchener-Waterloo and the Pacific FC group holds territorial rights to lower mainland BC. If that's accurate along with the $8 or 9 million expansion fee it's difficult to see how a franchise type business model is not involved to a large extent given the very obvious parallels between CSB and SUM.

You’re cherry-picking semantics to justify the ‘franchise’ tag. Either that, or sh-t disturbing the board intentionally, but I wouldn’t accuse you of that. Let’s hear your 3-bullet definition for each term (club and franchise).

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Learn some manners, if you want a conversation.

[BuzzAndSting]

A franchise is regulated by strict guidelines set out by a Board of Governors/Owners or a league. Things like suppliers, marketing, branding, labour relations, etc... are are regulated by an agreed upon set of rules.

Clubs have more freedom, they may be affiliated and work in concert on certain aspects of business operations but are not always obligated to do so. We can see evidence of this in the CPL in certain unique stadiums aspects, the international player draft and the seemingly fluid player movement (no complex player rights scheme).

I think the CPL is neither one or the other in the truest sense but probably somewhere in the middle, most likely closer to the club model. Anyone who thinks they can say definitively which model the CPL has implemented is not telling the truth.

[narduch]

Well one thing we know for sure is that its not MLS.

Or else HFX taking free agents from Valour would require draft picks or fake money going back the other way.

I'm happy CPL doesn't have those same stupid rules.