Ottawafan Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 If the CPL wants to demand $8-$10 million from a potential expansion team they’d better be able to show the league and current teams are worth that valuation. At the moment they can’t. Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmPappy Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, Ottawafan said: If the CPL wants to demand $8-$10 million from a potential expansion team they’d better be able to show the league and current teams are worth that valuation. At the moment they can’t. Or, at the moment, they won’t. We really don’t know what CSB is worth. johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 If an MLS franchise is really worth $325 million (US). Why can't a CPL franchise be worth $8 million? MtlMario, Viruk42, IAmPappy and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, IAmPappy said: Or, at the moment, they won’t. We really don’t know what CSB is worth. The MediaPro deal would point out that it isn't a cheap as people are trying to desperately imply here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulV Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, narduch said: If an MLS franchise is really worth $325 million (US). Why can't a CPL franchise be worth $8 million? We'll find out the moment someone is willing to pay for one; for the moment, no one has valued it that high. MLS franchises are apparently worth that much. Edited December 17, 2019 by PaulV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 45 minutes ago, PaulV said: We'll find out the moment someone is willing to pay for one; for the moment, no has valued it that high. MLS franchises are apparently worth that much. Valuation is subjective. It's how much anyone is willing to pay, really. If Charlotte wants to pay that much, who am I to stop them? Same for CPL, if some doesn't want to pay the fee and others are willing to, then don't expect CPL to lower the fee. CANMNT_SUPERFAN and CDNFootballer 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmPappy Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Ansem said: The MediaPro deal would point out that it isn't a cheap as people are trying to desperately imply here. Exactly. People think $9M is too high because (a) they don’t have it, and (b) we’re used to hearing chatter in the $1-2M range. There’s no black arts or subjectivity to business valuation. It’s all in the math. We just don’t happen to know the actual numbers. However, I can make some guesses, but feel to use your own numbers: Let’s say each club charges an average $20/ticket, 2000 tickets/game, 14 home games, 7 clubs. That’s $3.9M in gate revenue for the whole league, so let’s round it up to $5M to include merch, concessions, and parking. Now assume that 50% of gross revenue is from media rights (not uncommon in sports), so that’s $10M in total gross revenue league-wide. Depending on the industry, business valuation can be 3-20x annual gross sales, and as a growth industry, let’s say 5x, so CSB is worth $50M. If you want a piece of that pie, and become the eighth partner, then your entry fee is 1/8, or $6M. That’s not too far off, considering it’s 27 seconds of financial analysis with a bunch of swagged numbers. Edited December 17, 2019 by IAmPappy Minor edits. HochelagaFC, dyslexic nam, Red and White and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 If I run your formula, its hard to come up with 350mil for CHARLOTTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulV Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 32 minutes ago, Bison44 said: If I run your formula, its hard to come up with 350mil for CHARLOTTE. Seems like we're in a bit of a bubble for major sports franchises. You see NBA, MLB and NFL teams going for multiple billion dollars and people are hoping they're getting in early on the MLS. Time will tell whether it was a good investment or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmPappy Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bison44 said: If I run your formula, its hard to come up with 350mil for CHARLOTTE. Ah! There’s a special formula for American franchises: Reduce both your CapEx and your OpEx by adding a publicly funded (free!) $200M stadium. [Okay, I can make that jab, I’m American]. 😉 Edited December 17, 2019 by IAmPappy Added winky. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmPappy Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 My bad. It’s only $110M in public money. 🤦♂️ johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Am I reading that right? $110 millions of public funds are being used to top up the expansion fee required to bring a soccer franchise to Charlotte, North Carolina? As a private enterprise? O-key....Two thoughts. 1st. Is this a telemarketing scam aimed at your 78 year old mother? 2nd. While firearm ownership by households is actually quite similar between Canada and the United States statistically the likelyhood of the use of firearms in a criminal offense in the United States is 1000% more likely than in Canada. We have the guns, we just tend to not point them at each other nearly as much. If you wondering why this is, see above. johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cblake Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 On 12/14/2019 at 6:07 AM, JamboAl said: I agree that the Ottawa market is a priority. I’m also starting to take statements from the CPL about expansion with a certain amount of scepticism. Hope that’s just my current state of disappointment with all that’s happened with the local soccer scene and certain people’s reaction (joy) in it. Ottawa is an interesting city as it does hot have a huge corporate base, its a government town. If OSEG gets involved with baseball and redevelops area around the stadium and rugby league is finalized for TD Place there will be only so many sponsorship dollars to be divided up. Also any group that tries to be the bring a CPL team to Ottawa and tries to play at TD Place will be behind the eight ball in terms of revenue as they will have to do a deal with OSEG on such matters when doing a lease. They most likely could end getting very little from concessions and beer. It will be interesting to see. JamboAl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Cblake said: Ottawa is an interesting city as it does hot have a huge corporate base, its a government town. If OSEG gets involved with baseball and redevelops area around the stadium and rugby league is finalized for TD Place there will be only so many sponsorship dollars to be divided up.... There's also the new basketball team to consider given that league has a summer season. The rumoured new D2 league might be a better fit with that backdrop given it would be easier to play somewhere other than TD Place without spending big money on a pop-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 14 hours ago, narduch said: If an MLS franchise is really worth $325 million (US). Why can't a CPL franchise be worth $8 million? Is CanPL not supposed to be about clubs rather than franchises? There are posters on here who have got very upset when I have used the f-word rather than the c-word in a CanPL context. IAmPappy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: Is CanPL not supposed to be about clubs rather than franchises? There are posters on here who have got very upset when I have used the f-word rather than the c-word in a CanPL context. This is just useless semantics. And misses the point completely Bbeto, BuzzAndSting and Ruffian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 MLS franchise values aren't sustainable based on actual revenues. Or based on the fact that they only average 200,000 TV viewers in the US. No amount of SUM money can cover up for that. Right now they have created a nice little buzz that allows them to sell new franchises at an inflated price. But in the end these teams need to make money to support that. By the way, people should look into how things are going in Nashville and Miami. One team doesn't even have a coach yet (Miami) and there is talk that ticket sales are awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Most soccer fans will want both leagues to succeed. Hopefully MLS and CanPL sort out their issues with slow ticket sales in Nashville and York Region, and hopefully Ottawa will have a pro team again soon. The proposed D2 should help make that doable, if the tweets are accurate. johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Thats just depressing...Ottawa goes from NASL, to USL, skips CPL and goobers suggest they drop all the way down to a new D2 league??? Makes me want to use a F-word C-word combo. Ottawa with a million people will be in D2 with the \parry sound paddlers, Sudbury nickelmen and the brockville bulls with the players mom's serving freshy to the guys at halftime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bison44 said: Thats just depressing...Ottawa goes from NASL, to USL, skips CPL and goobers suggest they drop all the way down to a new D2 league??? Makes me want to use a F-word C-word combo. Ottawa with a million people will be in D2 with the \parry sound paddlers, Sudbury nickelmen and the brockville bulls with the players mom's serving freshy to the guys at halftime. CPL made clear they wanted Ottawa in the top tier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ansem said: CPL made clear they wanted Ottawa in the top tier As they should be, they've already proven they have a fanbase that will show up in decent numbers (5000+)....sucks that it has all gone so bad there.... Bbeto 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bison44 said: As they should be, they've already proven they have a fanbase that will show up in decent numbers (5000+)....sucks that it has all gone so bad there.... The good news is that TD Place would be available which should attract more investors who won't have to deal with the headache of stadium. In my opinion, Ottawa should have the league opening game when a team arrives Ottawa vs. Quebec City would be awesome Bbeto, CDNFootballer, Cheeta and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mianjo Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Rumour Foreign investors have been shown around Ottawa with hopes of bringing pro soccer back to Ottawa johnyb, Ivan, Winnipeg Fury and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 33 minutes ago, mianjo said: Rumour Foreign investors have been shown around Ottawa with hopes of bringing pro soccer back to Ottawa I saw that posted on FB. Got me thinking about the economics of a large foreign club setting up a CPL feeder club in a place like Canada. Startup costs would be pretty low on the bell curve of their overall operating expense. You have a stable business and economic climate, and a footy market that is still relatively untapped (both in terms of players and fanbase). How many Davies or Davids would you need to produce, and how often, for the economics to make sense - supplemented with normal league/club revenue streams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 38 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said: I saw that posted on FB. Got me thinking about the economics of a large foreign club setting up a CPL feeder club in a place like Canada. Startup costs would be pretty low on the bell curve of their overall operating expense. You have a stable business and economic climate, and a footy market that is still relatively untapped (both in terms of players and fanbase). How many Davies or Davids would you need to produce, and how often, for the economics to make sense - supplemented with normal league/club revenue streams? City group or Red Bull maybe? SadOnMondays 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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