Ottawa CPL Club

[The Real Marc]

On 11/9/2019 at 9:43 AM, BuzzAndSting said:

I agree to a certain extent but OSEG has been clear, and when residents were polled a few months ago they were clear, the site needs more programming. OSEG is now trying to gain control of the 3 remaining City controlled spaces so that they can increase the frequency and diversity of programming. So to think they would cut 20 dates that draw 2-5K that quickly doesn’t exactly make sense. I think this has more to do with incompetence than will.

It makes sense if after six years they're still losing money on each and every one of those 20 dates.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

...and have a rugby league team lined up to replace them.

[SpursFlu]

6 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Is that description fully accurate? Bear in mind that TFC wanted/wants to have a team in CanPL.

Yah to undermine it

[SpursFlu]

50 minutes ago, Viruk42 said:

I would suggest that mentioning them on TFC broadcasts is probably the decision of the individual play-by-play / colour commentator, not TSN, unless they were specifically saying things like "and you can watch Forge vs Cavalry on OneSoccer.ca tomorrow at 7pm" or whatnot. I guess TSN could have asked the commentators not mention CPL at all, but I think it's more likely that they just don't care about the CPL either way.

Because they know the CPL means jobs for them and their friends

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

7 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Yah to undermine it

It showed there was a willingness to work with CanPL. It's unfortunate that a way could not have been found to make that work sensibly for both parties. Hopefully we'll be seeing significantly more loans happening next season now that Ottawa is no longer part of the equation. Carmine Isacco may well have been right to state that CanPL would have been the more beneficial place to be for players like Boskovic, Hundal and Daniels last season. Hopefully things will eventually move beyond this perception of a bitter MLS vs CanPL rivalry and it will become the norm to want all of Canadian soccer to go from strength to strength.

[SpursFlu]

31 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

It showed there was a willingness to work with CanPL. It's unfortunate that a way could not have been found to make that work sensibly for both parties. Hopefully we'll be seeing significantly more loans happening next season now that Ottawa is no longer part of the equation. Carmine Isacco may well have been right to state that CanPL would have been the more beneficial place to be for players like Boskovic, Hundal and Daniels last season. Hopefully things will eventually move beyond this perception of a bitter MLS vs CanPL rivalry and it will become the norm to want all of Canadian soccer to go from strength to strength.

Definitely.. Yah listen I like the cut of your jib.  I've got a beautiful ocean front property in Montana I'd like for you to have a look at

[BuzzAndSting]

1 hour ago, The Real Marc said:

It makes sense if after six years they're still losing money on each and every one of those 20 dates.

Almost all of the programming loses money.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

35 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Definitely.. Yah listen I like the cut of your jib.  I've got a beautiful ocean front property in Montana I'd like for you to have a look at

Meanwhile David Norman Jr was loaned out to Pacific FC as recently as a couple of months ago. A lot of people try to be driven by rationality rather than by paranoia and spite.

[SpursFlu]

4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Meanwhile David Norman Jr was loaned out to Pacific FC as recently as a couple of months ago. A lot of people try to be driven by rationality rather than by paranoia and spite.

Yah that's great. Hopefully were at that point now. It's hard to think anyone who's been paying attention wouldn't agree that the CPL is an awesome league that's here to stay. Loan your players to the CPL if you want them to get better. You agree right?

As a Whitecaps fan I'm hoping 3 or 4 of our young residency players end up on loan to the CPL next year. Hopefully all MLS teams consider this, especially the Canadian teams 

Edited November 10, 2019 by SpursFlu

[CDNFootballer]

7 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

It showed there was a willingness to work with CanPL. It's unfortunate that a way could not have been found to make that work sensibly for both parties. Hopefully we'll be seeing significantly more loans happening next season now that Ottawa is no longer part of the equation. Carmine Isacco may well have been right to state that CanPL would have been the more beneficial place to be for players like Boskovic, Hundal and Daniels last season. Hopefully things will eventually move beyond this perception of a bitter MLS vs CanPL rivalry and it will become the norm to want all of Canadian soccer to go from strength to strength.

Like the fox is willing to work with the hens in the hen house.

Loans are ok to a certain extent, with restrictions on multiples going to a single CPL club from one MLS franches so as not to give impressions of any club being a minor league affiliate as the Fury were. There's been talk of rules like this in place previously (think it was 2 maximum) so hopefully they exist.

There will always be a rivalry between the American's D1 MLS and the Canadian D1 CPL and that's great and exciting.

[Ansem]

14 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Is that description fully accurate? Bear in mind that TFC wanted/wants to have a team in CanPL.

Bad faith parrot strikes again. 

You know full well that they wanted TFC III at first there so they could forever cement CPL as a farm league

[CanSuffer]

8 hours ago, Viruk42 said:

I would suggest that mentioning them on TFC broadcasts is probably the decision of the individual play-by-play / colour commentator, not TSN, ...

Pretty naive to think any broadcaster doesn't supervise it's business interests/strategy like a hawk in any content it manages. Can't believe that any on-air personality isn't given an overview of what is to be emphasized where possible and what must not be talked about. Sure within that as much latitude as possible is given. But step over the line or into grey areas too much and you will find yourself out of work. It rarely ever even gets to that point because you've already been groomed for the position before you get put into it...

[JamboAl]

On 11/9/2019 at 7:32 PM, Ansem said:

Maybe replicating something intimate like Halifax. Do we really need another oversized CFL stadium?

On grass preferably 

Ideally something similar to the Wanderers Ground would be amazing for Ottawa.  Having been out there this summer, it is the best located ground in the CPL.  
 

But as I have said many a time, there is nowhere in Ottawa that has the same perfect location as Halifax, and is affordable to an owner to make it work.

[IAmPappy]

16 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

But as I have said many a time, there is nowhere in Ottawa that has the same perfect location as Halifax, and is affordable to an owner to make it work.

So, I’m just an outsider looking at Google Maps, but any possibility of a popup, at any of the following locations:

- Lynda Lane Park or the pitch next to Hillcrest High School.

- The land south of 417 across from St Laurent stop.

- Soccer Field UQO in Hull, north of Lemieux Island.

Just to be clear, I’m not from Ottawa, just looking at Google Maps and asking the naive questions. 

 

 

[JamboAl]

8 minutes ago, IAmPappy said:

So, I’m just an outsider looking at Google Maps, but any possibility of a popup, at any of the following locations:

- Lynda Lane Park or the pitch next to Hillcrest High School.

- The land south of 417 across from St Laurent stop.

- Soccer Field UQO in Hull, north of Lemieux Island.

Just to be clear, I’m not from Ottawa, just looking at Google Maps and asking the naive questions. 

 

 

That’s ok...always open to suggestions.  

1.  Lynda Lane Park is a decent size and currently used by the local cricket league (yes, we have one in Ottawa).  But public transit is very poor and there is little parking and any there is, is usually taken up by visitors to the Ottawa General Hospital across the street.

2. If I understand where you are looking at, there isn’t a hell of a lot of space on the south side of St Laurent.  It’s also very industrial and would need some significant dollars to clean it up to even think of making it a public facility.  Plus, the baseball stadium is near there and it’s becoming a white elephant.  It could work, but it is definitely not anything as attractive as what Halifax has.

3. The footprint of the field is very small and butts onto the river and an actively used recreational path owned by the National Capital Commission.  No parking around there to speak of and little public transit (none directly from Ottawa).  Would think that you might be able to squeeze a stand for 1,000 people in there, if you’re lucky.

Would love to hear from my fellow Ottawans as well but none of these sound all that attractive and nowhere near as “sexy” as TD Place’s footprint and location.

[Ansem]

4 hours ago, IAmPappy said:

So, I’m just an outsider looking at Google Maps, but any possibility of a popup, at any of the following locations:

- Lynda Lane Park or the pitch next to Hillcrest High School.

- The land south of 417 across from St Laurent stop.

- Soccer Field UQO in Hull, north of Lemieux Island.

Just to be clear, I’m not from Ottawa, just looking at Google Maps and asking the naive questions. 

 

 

Also, it isn't just about green space. It's wherever zoning allows it like an underused area but if industrial, it might be contaminated, which requires costly decontamination. So you're hoping for underused land like Downtown Montreal pre Bell Centre or Olympic Park pre-Saputo Stadium. In Toronto, if Downsview Airport land is ever made available, this become a prime location for such project.

The questions isn't if they exist or not in Ottawa, I can point out to areas in Montreal and Toronto that are underused, it's about finding a right fit for both the cities and an eventual group.

Since ownership groups seems to want municipalities to help with their facilities needs, that gives the city a lot of leverage on the location which might not always match what the owner is looking for. (Example of the Calgary Flames saga, it wasn't just about the cost but location too, which wasn't what they had in mind initially.)

Vice versa, owners picks a spot and city push back (Port of Miami, Vancouver Waterfront)

Of course, if you know for sure your project is viable and will make you tons of money, by building a stadium attached with a real estate project that benefits the city (area/neighborhood revitalization) while fronting most of the cost is an incentive to the city to compromise or agree. (Montreal Centre Bell + Canadiens towers, dead LeBreton Flats + extras with LRT station paid for, Air Canada Centre + ML Square)

After all, underused land is just that...underused. even if it's in a desirable area/prime location, if no one develops it or rush to do something with it while cities dont know what to do with it either, it can become mutually beneficial to take a look at such a project at said location.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Ansem

[IAmPappy]

Ugg ... sounds like any future CPL owner in Ottawa might just have to work with OSEG ... thanks for the great local insight!

[grigorio]

39 minutes ago, IAmPappy said:

Ugg ... sounds like any future CPL owner in Ottawa might just have to work with OSEG ... thanks for the great local insight!

Or they could wait 47 years until Lebreton flats is developed and vie for a small pitch in there somewhere that would offend the local populace ensnaring the proposal in 7 more years of public consultation ultimately to be rejected. 

[Viruk42]

1 hour ago, IAmPappy said:

Ugg ... sounds like any future CPL owner in Ottawa might just have to work with OSEG ... thanks for the great local insight!

The most likely alternatives would be the schools (both of Carleton's have very good turf, Ottawa U's Lees field has shitty turf, and I can't speak to the other Ottawa U field or Algonquin's as I've never played on them), none of which have a great location. They're all relatively accessible by transit but there's not really any pubs, restaurants, etc around them (Algonquin is a bit of a walk from the station, but also I think closer to pubs, etc than the other schools) - I guess Ottawa U's Matt Anthony field might be a better location, except there's nowhere to park. And, obviously, you have to convince the schools to give them up for significant periods of time, during which they're probably already being used (there's a reason I've played on two of those fields after all!). 

Other locations are often more long term. Lebreton would be great, but that redevelopment will take decades. Same with the Hurdman area. Would be great to do a popup at Confederation Park but there's no way in hell that'd happen. 

One area that could be an interesting option would be the Mechanicsville area, with Laroche Park. I don't know if it'd be possible, but it's got a lot going for it in terms of location. Who even knows with this shitshow of a city though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[-Hammer-]

1 hour ago, grigorio said:

Or they could wait 47 years until Lebreton flats is developed and vie for a small pitch in there somewhere that would offend the local populace ensnaring the proposal in 7 more years of public consultation ultimately to be rejected. 

I was going to mention that location, given Melnyk was talking about putting the Sens there. I was going to ask, would a smaller, outdoor venue that would still allow the Ottawa Blue's Fest to continue at the location work?

[Cblake]

1 hour ago, -Hammer- said:

I was going to mention that location, given Melnyk was talking about putting the Sens there. I was going to ask, would a smaller, outdoor venue that would still allow the Ottawa Blue's Fest to continue at the location work?

Lebreton Flats is a non starter in terms of a location for a pop up stadium, the land is just too valuable 

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, -Hammer- said:

I was going to mention that location, given Melnyk was talking about putting the Sens there. I was going to ask, would a smaller, outdoor venue that would still allow the Ottawa Blue's Fest to continue at the location work?

I was thinking that a pop up solution like Halifax where you have to tear it down like Wanderers Grounds could be negotiable at that spot while coming up coming up with a master plan. Would the NCC turn down possible revenue if there's low downside? I have my doubts.

That's lots of land with the LRT going through it. (2 stations)

http://ncc-ccn.gc.ca/projects/building-lebreton

According to the NCC, their vision includes :

spaces for possible major attractions

 

They are saying it as well, "open to locating a major event centre on LeBreton Flats should there be interest and opportunity in future"

Best case scenario is that a ownership group partners with an manor real estate developers to integrate the stadium in the plan to pitch it as a potential "major events" centre or part of a future centre.

We have to stop just saying "won't happen". It can, only with very serious business people behind it. The league must be aware of this and would most likely want to avoid OSEG altogether.

In the meantime, just replicate Halifax. Ask the NCC to rent land from March to November (extra time to assemble and take down the pop up). Build a track record as a good tenant and this might increase your odds of being included in long term plans including a permanent structure. Finding a partner developer is better...at worse, you have years to come up with a plan B.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Ansem

[JamboAl]

@Ansem, you assume the NCC is a rational business decision maker.  And you also assume there is someone with hundreds of millions (or more) that will sway the NCC.  If there were, someone would have done something with Lebreton Flats by way of sports, retail, condos, anything!  It’s sad to see it doing nothing other than Blues Fest two weeks a summer.  And never mind the local populace (including possibly yours truly) unhappy over yet another sports facility in town when there are two decent outdoor facilities already (TD Place and the baseball stadium).

IMO, the only viable option in Ottawa is TD Place - and to get there, OSEG will have to be dealt with whether people like it or not.

Edited November 11, 2019 by JamboAl

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

@Ansem, you assume the NCC is a rational business decision maker.  And you also assume there is someone with hundreds of millions (or more) that will sway the NCC.  If there were, someone would have done something with Lebreton Flats by way of sports, retail, condos, anything!  It’s sad to see it doing nothing other than Blues Fest two weeks a summer.  And never mind the local populace (including possibly yours truly) unhappy over yet another sports facility in town when there are two decent outdoor facilities already (TD Place and the baseball stadium).

IMO, the only viable option in Ottawa is TD Place - and to get there, OSEG will have to be dealt with whether people like it or not.

I'm talking temporary structure like Halifax that they would have to tear down after each season. You have your precedent with Blue Fest.

As for TD, with Rugby coming in, squeezing in 14 home games + V Cup + potentially CONCACAF League + potentially CPL Championship might not even be doable even if OSEG was in good faith.

I disagree that there's no other way than TD place. 

[Ams1984]

7 hours ago, Ansem said:

I was thinking that a pop up solution like Halifax where you have to tear it down like Wanderers Grounds could be negotiable at that spot while coming up coming up with a master plan. Would the NCC turn down possible revenue if there's low downside? I have my doubts.

That's lots of land with the LRT going through it. (2 stations)

http://ncc-ccn.gc.ca/projects/building-lebreton

According to the NCC, their vision includes :

spaces for possible major attractions

 

They are saying it as well, "open to locating a major event centre on LeBreton Flats should there be interest and opportunity in future"

Best case scenario is that a ownership group partners with an manor real estate developers to integrate the stadium in the plan to pitch it as a potential "major events" centre or part of a future centre.

We have to stop just saying "won't happen". It can, only with very serious business people behind it. The league must be aware of this and would most likely want to avoid OSEG altogether.

In the meantime, just replicate Halifax. Ask the NCC to rent land from March to November (extra time to assemble and take down the pop up). Build a track record as a good tenant and this might increase your odds of being included in long term plans including a permanent structure. Finding a partner developer is better...at worse, you have years to come up with a plan B.

Yes, I think we all dodged a bullet with OSEG. They’re either amateurs or scumbags, probably the latter. I’d much rather we get an earnest good faith ownership group, really in it for the long haul.