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Ottawa CPL Club

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6 minutes ago, Initial B said:

Bingo. Fury are being singled out.

Yeah, TFC2 in USL1 is the big "wtf?!" that I see.

MLS? I get it.

T-Bay? I get it. LO1 would be unfeasible for them due to geography.

But TFC2? Come on. The fact that everyone is ok letting them continue in USL1 was a joke before, and it's even moreso one now.

Edited by Sébastien

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3 minutes ago, Initial B said:

Then what about the TFC Academy teams playing in the US development league when they have OPDL (Not to mention TFCII in USL1)? Or the Thunder Bay Chill when they have L1O? 

Thunder Bay Chill was granted a special exception. The travel between Thunder Bay and the existing L1O teams is killer. As a result, L1O didn't want them (because of the sharp increase in costs for their teams), and TB didn't want L1O for the same issues (especially as they currently operate in a smaller region designed specifically to decrease those costs). Ontario Soccer, which governs sanctioning of provincial leagues, understood the exceptional circumstances and acted appropriately.

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3 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

Yeah, TFC2 in USL1 is the big "wtf?!" that I see.

MLS? I get it?

T-Bay? I get it. LO1 would be unfeasible for them due to geography.

But TFC2? Come on. The fact that everyone is ok letting them continue in USL1 was a joke before, and it's even moreso one now.

I agree, it's strange for them to let TFC II continue in USL-1. Although, there is no "comparable league" at this time (a CSA division-2 that is a step down from CPL & up from L1O).

That said, we haven't exactly heard anything about their status for 2020, so for all we know, they might end up with similar issues.

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37 minutes ago, Initial B said:

I

This has probably set back professional soccer in the capital for probably a decade. Think of the cascading effect among prospective CanPL owners - if that can happen to the Ottawa Fury, what's to keep that from happening in their own city? How many investors will get cold feet and delay starting a franchise, which in turn leads to CanPL fans getting tired of the stale, same 7 clubs and slowly drifting away to where there are only 1-3000 per attending per game? When the media money runs out in 10 years and there is no follow-up contract, what then? I don't know about you guys, but I'm really concerned about unexpected ramifications of today's events on the future of Canadian Soccer. 

I buy all that but a new guy coming into CPL isnt going to have sanctioning problems, which is "the reason" why the Fury have packed it in for the time being.  If you cant play with the americans and cant make a deal with CPL..then you are stuck.   But any new team will not be in that situation, so I'm not sure if it hurts on that front.  To me this is a self inflicted wound...if Fury were playing hardball as far as rosters and cap last year and then again this year on a break on a entrance fee then they dont really want soccer then eh?  You took your ball and decided not to play because you couldnt make a deal with the only league that you were going to be allowed to play in.  There was no "choice" for Fury....it was CPL or nothing and they chose nothing.  Very dissapointing

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4 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I buy all that but a new guy coming into CPL isnt going to have sanctioning problems, which is "the reason" why the Fury have packed it in for the time being.  If you cant play with the americans and cant make a deal with CPL..then you are stuck.   But any new team will not be in that situation, so I'm not sure if it hurts on that front.  To me this is a self inflicted wound...if Fury were playing hardball as far as rosters and cap last year and then again this year on a break on a entrance fee then they dont really want soccer then eh?  You took your ball and decided not to play because you couldnt make a deal with the only league that you were going to be allowed to play in.  There was no "choice" for Fury....it was CPL or nothing and they chose nothing.  Very dissapointing

Was going to say something similar.  I don't think this puts a national chill on soccer investment.  CPL is getting a lot of solid press and has had, by most accounts, a good first season.  The fact that an Ottawa based team wasn't successful playing in a US league doesn't really seem to have a lot of implications for would be CPL teams - at least in other markets.  

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9 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

Yeah, TFC2 in USL1 is the big "wtf?!" that I see.

MLS? I get it?

T-Bay? I get it. LO1 would be unfeasible for them due to geography.

But TFC2? Come on. The fact that everyone is ok letting them continue in USL1 was a joke before, and it's even moreso one now.

TFC2 is going nowhere.  I would not be surprised to see the team fold sooner than later as did the Whitecaps and Impact affiliate teams. 

TFC believes in maybe a handful of players at TFC2 and those could all be kept under contract and sent out on loan.  Most of the players on TFC2 will no doubt look for playing time, exposure and relevance in the CPL as soon as their contracts run out.

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1 minute ago, BrennanFan said:

TFC2 is going nowhere.  I would not be surprised to see the team fold sooner than later as did the Whitecaps and Impact affiliate teams. 

TFC believes in maybe a handful of players at TFC2 and those could all be kept under contract and sent out on loan.  Most of the players on TFC2 will no doubt look for playing time, exposure and relevance in the CPL as soon as their contracts run out.

This raises an interesting consideration.  With Ottawa no longer a viable destination for MLS loan players, does this put more pressure on the MLS to start looking to CPL teams as the optimal loan destination for fringe players?

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46 minutes ago, Initial B said:

First, I think the governing bodies of Canada Soccer, USSF, and CONCACAF need to respond to this press conference. Goudie basically said that CONCACAF decisions override any national body. If so, then what's the point of having a national body?

Decentralization of powers / Chain of Command. FIFA can't be everywhere to enforce its rules thus

CONCACAF -- North, Central America and Caribbeans, continental issues, leagues, tournaments etc...

CSA -- Canadians affairs, leagues, clubs etc...

49 minutes ago, Initial B said:

From what he said, it sounds like CONCACAF ghosted them without letting them know of the alternatives. If OSEG started this process in May and got approval from CanSoc by June, why didn't CONCACAF immediately tell them in no uncertain terms that they were not getting 2020 sanctioning to give them time to make alternative arrangements? It comes across as CONCACAF choosing a timeline that would cause the Fury the most damage. 

Because they were told last year and they wouldn't listen. Also, how do we know that CONCACAF ghosted them? I'd they did, it's because they haven't changed their minds since last year...yet irresponsibly, they pursue in planning for 2020 and say it publicly.

At some point...you're done talking and you simply wait for the application to denied it.

52 minutes ago, Initial B said:

If CONCACAF really did let the Fury know earlier, then it's all on the Fury. But if the governing bodies left the Fury to twist in the wind, then that speaks to something personal, not professional in their conduct. Then again, it's the same with Goudie in the Fury presser talking of ulterior motives, lack of trust, and ransom notes. There's a deeper story here, but I'm betting no investigative reporter cares enough to dig for it.

It's on the Fury. They were told by CONCACAF in a communique that was made public that they didn't recognize the "exceptional" clause of Article 73 applied to them.

Instead of acknowledging that, they buried their heads in the sand and kept pushing forward like "business as usual". That's insubordination in most places.

The press conference showed that pattern of "entitlement" when they said that "they felt that based on past accomplishments, they should dictate the terms of joining CPL (paraphrasing)

How the hell are they more special than FC Edmonton? Someone has to explain it to me.

57 minutes ago, Initial B said:

And don't think that the MLS clubs aren't taking notes how the Fury have been treated. They'll be busy planning contingencies for when CONCACAF tries to do the same to them. TFC especially. MLSE is owned by the two most powerful media conglomerates in Canada who would have no qualms about turning up the bias against CONCACAF if it threatens one of their investments. As we all fond of saying, it's just business.

Going after CONCACAF is going after FIFA. In the grand scheme of things, Canada and MLS is a blimp in the FIFA Universe. If the most powerful Euro clubs can't get their super league pass, which would challenge Article 73, please explain why MLS and 3 Canadian clubs ever hope to do better than Manchester City, Paris St-Germain, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and company.

At the end of the day, FIFA has last say.

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

And speaking of business, part of me can't help but feel a nagging suspicion that OSEG is using the politics as a smokescreen for dropping a money-losing operation. The truth lies buried somewhere inbetween and I don't think anyone is going to find it for at least another decade or longer.

According to CBC, they aren't excluding restarting in USL with an US based team. If that's true, maybe they really want a soccer club and help Canadian soccer. The problem with them, is that it seems like EVERYTHING must be done on their OWN terms. 

Canada doesn't need that. I bid them good luck in the states if they go down that route and I'll applaud their efforts in playing Canadians down south, but get out of the way in Ottawa.

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

Regardless of the motives, the outcome is a dead club. I keep asking myself, who benefits from this? Where's the money trail? Does Montigliani really think that there is an investor who would try to put a club in a city where attempts have failed more than once? It's all fine to talk of Bob Young being a white knight, but then I worry about one owner holding too many clubs and the whole thing collapses like a pack of cards.  

Montagliani is enforcing Article 73, the same way he enforce it whenever a North American league comes up, the same way UEFA killed any attempts at a Super League in Europe. I'm not denying that his Canadian background made him more eager than past presidents to enforce the rules but he's doing his job at the end of the day.

It's ugly, it's messy, a club died. The bigger picture is that in the long term, USL in Ottawa gave little to no benefit to Canadian soccer as a whole except helping out Montreal Impact who shut down their reserve team. If I'm wrong, why am I seeing 3 CPL players being called up and no USL? Objectively, no one can argue that an Ottawa player deserved it better than Carducci, Zator and Didic

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

This has probably set back professional soccer in the capital for probably a decade.

Doubtful. Fury didn't draw casuals. You need to do that to get to the next level.

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

Think of the cascading effect among prospective CanPL owners - if that can happen to the Ottawa Fury, what's to keep that from happening in their own city?

They play in Canada, in a Canadian sanctioned league. That cannot happen to them, they are in compliance with the rules...Fury weren't at the minutes they tried to ignore CONCACAF ruling on their status.

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

How many investors will get cold feet and delay starting a franchise, which in turn leads to CanPL fans getting tired of the stale, same 7 clubs and slowly drifting away to where there are only 1-3000 per attending per game?

There's still up ton18 wanting a club including 3 being very close. My answer, none.

If anything, the prospect of not having to compete with the Fury with a possibility of using TD should make already interested investors in Ottawa more eager this time.

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

When the media money runs out in 10 years and there is no follow-up contract, what then? I don't know about you guys, but I'm really concerned about unexpected ramifications of today's events on the future of Canadian Soccer

No one can predict 10 years from now, but I doubt anyone remembers nor links a no follow up of a media contract in 2029 10 to the Ottawa Fury folding in 2019.

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Slightly off topic, I do wonder whether this could lead to a change in USL rules regarding Canadians as domestic players. On the one hand, that might mean fewer professional spots for Canadians, but on the other hand it might increase the overall quality of the CPL?

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Folding. Serious problems. The TFCII talk is crazy. They are a bonified reserve team playing in D3. There isn't a comparable league where it would be feasible for them to play in. The fact that they will never be allowed to play in the CPL is one case, the fact that TFCIII plays in L1O shows is another case. 

It's a joke that they are even being mentioned as a reference for the Fury farcical. This cased is closed. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Viruk42 said:

Slightly off topic, I do wonder whether this could lead to a change in USL rules regarding Canadians as domestic players. On the one hand, that might mean fewer professional spots for Canadians, but on the other hand it might increase the overall quality of the CPL?

I"ve been thinking about that as well.

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19 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Decentralization of powers / Chain of Command. FIFA can't be everywhere to enforce its rules thus

CONCACAF -- North, Central America and Caribbeans, continental issues, leagues, tournaments etc...

CSA -- Canadians affairs, leagues, clubs etc...

Because they were told last year and they wouldn't listen. Also, how do we know that CONCACAF ghosted them? I'd they did, it's because they haven't changed their minds since last year...yet irresponsibly, they pursue in planning for 2020 and say it publicly.

At some point...you're done talking and you simply wait for the application to denied it.

It's on the Fury. They were told by CONCACAF in a communique that was made public that they didn't recognize the "exceptional" clause of Article 73 applied to them.

Instead of acknowledging that, they buried their heads in the sand and kept pushing forward like "business as usual". That's insubordination in most places.

The press conference showed that pattern of "entitlement" when they said that "they felt that based on past accomplishments, they should dictate the terms of joining CPL (paraphrasing)

How the hell are they more special than FC Edmonton? Someone has to explain it to me.

Going after CONCACAF is going after FIFA. In the grand scheme of things, Canada and MLS is a blimp in the FIFA Universe. If the most powerful Euro clubs can't get their super league pass, which would challenge Article 73, please explain why MLS and 3 Canadian clubs ever hope to do better than Manchester City, Paris St-Germain, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and company.

At the end of the day, FIFA has last say.

According to CBC, they aren't excluding restarting in USL with an US based team. If that's true, maybe they really want a soccer club and help Canadian soccer. The problem with them, is that it seems like EVERYTHING must be done on their OWN terms. 

Canada doesn't need that. I bid them good luck in the states if they go down that route and I'll applaud their efforts in playing Canadians down south, but get out of the way in Ottawa.

Montagliani is enforcing Article 73, the same way he enforce it whenever a North American league comes up, the same way UEFA killed any attempts at a Super League in Europe. I'm not denying that his Canadian background made him more eager than past presidents to enforce the rules but he's doing his job at the end of the day.

It's ugly, it's messy, a club died. The bigger picture is that in the long term, USL in Ottawa gave little to no benefit to Canadian soccer as a whole except helping out Montreal Impact who shut down their reserve team. If I'm wrong, why am I seeing 3 CPL players being called up and no USL? Objectively, no one can argue that an Ottawa player deserved it better than Carducci, Zator and Didic

Doubtful. Fury didn't draw casuals. You need to do that to get to the next level.

They play in Canada, in a Canadian sanctioned league. That cannot happen to them, they are in compliance with the rules...Fury weren't at the minutes they tried to ignore CONCACAF ruling on their status.

There's still up ton18 wanting a club including 3 being very close. My answer, none.

If anything, the prospect of not having to compete with the Fury with a possibility of using TD should make already interested investors in Ottawa more eager this time.

No one can predict 10 years from now, but I doubt anyone remembers nor links a no follow up of a media contract in 2029 10 to the Ottawa Fury folding in 2019.

Ten years does seem extreme.  But I will be unequivocally clear on one thing: the proportion of casuals at a Fury game is/was much higher than I’ve ever seen anywhere.  The new club in the CPL will have to draw those casuals back plus a few thousand.

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6 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Ten years does seem extreme.  But I will be unequivocally clear on one thing: the proportion of casuals at a Fury game is/was much higher than I’ve ever seen anywhere.  The new club in the CPL will have to draw those casuals back plus a few thousand.

I'd argue that a CPL team will be better equipped to do so.

Inaugural season game at TD Stadium vs. Halifax, Forge or Cavalry

On CBC, Onesoccer or cable (according to Mediapro)

That's a huge advantage over the Fury 

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5 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I'd argue that a CPL team will be better equipped to do so.

Inaugural season game at TD Stadium vs. Halifax, Forge or Cavalry

On CBC, Onesoccer or cable (according to Mediapro)

That's a huge advantage over the Fury 

I hope the crowds come back and improve and I think they will.  But it will not be as easy as most people think as the CPL is pretty unknown.

Edited by JamboAl

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24 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I hope the crowds come back and improve and I think they will.  But it will not be as easy as most people think as the CPL is pretty unknown.

The USL was unknown too, I'm sure fans will figure out a rivalry with Hamilton or Calgary just as quick as they figured out where in the hell is Swope Park or Loudoun united is.  

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29 minutes ago, dnina10 said:

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/11/08/montreal-impact-release-statement-affiliate-ottawa-fury-ceasing-operations

 

This is the Montreal Impact's statement regarding the Fury's ceasing of operation

Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I find some of their characterizations interesting.  

A reserve or affiliate team is vital in order to give playing time to our young players.”

“Fury FC were Montreal's lower-league affiliate 2017-19”

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7 hours ago, Rintaran said:

That may be longer than expected. FC Gatineau just folded up their PLSQ operations, so don't expect any sort of step up from them.

If Ottawa Fury fold, as we all fear, that leaves OSU Force in League1 Ontario as the highest-level of soccer in the capital region.

Carleton U?

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If The Fury/OSEG were hell belt on staying USL CONCACAF/CSA should have just let them. If CONCACAF\CPL is telling them the only place they can play, is the CPL , is there not an obligation for the CPL to just let them in, it kind of reads like OSEG is being told them need to partner with the CPL and neither of them are really understand. Who is setting the terms here , the CSA? 

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5 minutes ago, Cblake said:

If The Fury/OSEG were hell belt on staying USL CONCACAF/CSA should have just let them. If CONCACAF\CPL is telling them the only place they can play, is the CPL , is there not an obligation for the CPL to just let them in, it kind of reads like OSEG is being told them need to partner with the CPL and neither of them are really understand. Who is setting the terms here , the CSA? 

They were told to move last year when the price would have been minimal or free.  They challenged that, threatened legal action, maintained that they wanted to stay in USL, and made no arrangements or plans to address what they were told.  

And this isn’t a CSA issue. It is CONCACAF, enforcing FIFA’s rules.  

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