Jump to content
CDNFootballer

Ottawa CPL Club

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I buy all that but a new guy coming into CPL isnt going to have sanctioning problems, which is "the reason" why the Fury have packed it in for the time being.  If you cant play with the americans and cant make a deal with CPL..then you are stuck.   But any new team will not be in that situation, so I'm not sure if it hurts on that front.  To me this is a self inflicted wound...if Fury were playing hardball as far as rosters and cap last year and then again this year on a break on a entrance fee then they dont really want soccer then eh?  You took your ball and decided not to play because you couldnt make a deal with the only league that you were going to be allowed to play in.  There was no "choice" for Fury....it was CPL or nothing and they chose nothing.  Very dissapointing

Was going to say something similar.  I don't think this puts a national chill on soccer investment.  CPL is getting a lot of solid press and has had, by most accounts, a good first season.  The fact that an Ottawa based team wasn't successful playing in a US league doesn't really seem to have a lot of implications for would be CPL teams - at least in other markets.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

Yeah, TFC2 in USL1 is the big "wtf?!" that I see.

MLS? I get it?

T-Bay? I get it. LO1 would be unfeasible for them due to geography.

But TFC2? Come on. The fact that everyone is ok letting them continue in USL1 was a joke before, and it's even moreso one now.

TFC2 is going nowhere.  I would not be surprised to see the team fold sooner than later as did the Whitecaps and Impact affiliate teams. 

TFC believes in maybe a handful of players at TFC2 and those could all be kept under contract and sent out on loan.  Most of the players on TFC2 will no doubt look for playing time, exposure and relevance in the CPL as soon as their contracts run out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BrennanFan said:

TFC2 is going nowhere.  I would not be surprised to see the team fold sooner than later as did the Whitecaps and Impact affiliate teams. 

TFC believes in maybe a handful of players at TFC2 and those could all be kept under contract and sent out on loan.  Most of the players on TFC2 will no doubt look for playing time, exposure and relevance in the CPL as soon as their contracts run out.

This raises an interesting consideration.  With Ottawa no longer a viable destination for MLS loan players, does this put more pressure on the MLS to start looking to CPL teams as the optimal loan destination for fringe players?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Initial B said:

First, I think the governing bodies of Canada Soccer, USSF, and CONCACAF need to respond to this press conference. Goudie basically said that CONCACAF decisions override any national body. If so, then what's the point of having a national body?

Decentralization of powers / Chain of Command. FIFA can't be everywhere to enforce its rules thus

CONCACAF -- North, Central America and Caribbeans, continental issues, leagues, tournaments etc...

CSA -- Canadians affairs, leagues, clubs etc...

49 minutes ago, Initial B said:

From what he said, it sounds like CONCACAF ghosted them without letting them know of the alternatives. If OSEG started this process in May and got approval from CanSoc by June, why didn't CONCACAF immediately tell them in no uncertain terms that they were not getting 2020 sanctioning to give them time to make alternative arrangements? It comes across as CONCACAF choosing a timeline that would cause the Fury the most damage. 

Because they were told last year and they wouldn't listen. Also, how do we know that CONCACAF ghosted them? I'd they did, it's because they haven't changed their minds since last year...yet irresponsibly, they pursue in planning for 2020 and say it publicly.

At some point...you're done talking and you simply wait for the application to denied it.

52 minutes ago, Initial B said:

If CONCACAF really did let the Fury know earlier, then it's all on the Fury. But if the governing bodies left the Fury to twist in the wind, then that speaks to something personal, not professional in their conduct. Then again, it's the same with Goudie in the Fury presser talking of ulterior motives, lack of trust, and ransom notes. There's a deeper story here, but I'm betting no investigative reporter cares enough to dig for it.

It's on the Fury. They were told by CONCACAF in a communique that was made public that they didn't recognize the "exceptional" clause of Article 73 applied to them.

Instead of acknowledging that, they buried their heads in the sand and kept pushing forward like "business as usual". That's insubordination in most places.

The press conference showed that pattern of "entitlement" when they said that "they felt that based on past accomplishments, they should dictate the terms of joining CPL (paraphrasing)

How the hell are they more special than FC Edmonton? Someone has to explain it to me.

57 minutes ago, Initial B said:

And don't think that the MLS clubs aren't taking notes how the Fury have been treated. They'll be busy planning contingencies for when CONCACAF tries to do the same to them. TFC especially. MLSE is owned by the two most powerful media conglomerates in Canada who would have no qualms about turning up the bias against CONCACAF if it threatens one of their investments. As we all fond of saying, it's just business.

Going after CONCACAF is going after FIFA. In the grand scheme of things, Canada and MLS is a blimp in the FIFA Universe. If the most powerful Euro clubs can't get their super league pass, which would challenge Article 73, please explain why MLS and 3 Canadian clubs ever hope to do better than Manchester City, Paris St-Germain, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and company.

At the end of the day, FIFA has last say.

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

And speaking of business, part of me can't help but feel a nagging suspicion that OSEG is using the politics as a smokescreen for dropping a money-losing operation. The truth lies buried somewhere inbetween and I don't think anyone is going to find it for at least another decade or longer.

According to CBC, they aren't excluding restarting in USL with an US based team. If that's true, maybe they really want a soccer club and help Canadian soccer. The problem with them, is that it seems like EVERYTHING must be done on their OWN terms. 

Canada doesn't need that. I bid them good luck in the states if they go down that route and I'll applaud their efforts in playing Canadians down south, but get out of the way in Ottawa.

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

Regardless of the motives, the outcome is a dead club. I keep asking myself, who benefits from this? Where's the money trail? Does Montigliani really think that there is an investor who would try to put a club in a city where attempts have failed more than once? It's all fine to talk of Bob Young being a white knight, but then I worry about one owner holding too many clubs and the whole thing collapses like a pack of cards.  

Montagliani is enforcing Article 73, the same way he enforce it whenever a North American league comes up, the same way UEFA killed any attempts at a Super League in Europe. I'm not denying that his Canadian background made him more eager than past presidents to enforce the rules but he's doing his job at the end of the day.

It's ugly, it's messy, a club died. The bigger picture is that in the long term, USL in Ottawa gave little to no benefit to Canadian soccer as a whole except helping out Montreal Impact who shut down their reserve team. If I'm wrong, why am I seeing 3 CPL players being called up and no USL? Objectively, no one can argue that an Ottawa player deserved it better than Carducci, Zator and Didic

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

This has probably set back professional soccer in the capital for probably a decade.

Doubtful. Fury didn't draw casuals. You need to do that to get to the next level.

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

Think of the cascading effect among prospective CanPL owners - if that can happen to the Ottawa Fury, what's to keep that from happening in their own city?

They play in Canada, in a Canadian sanctioned league. That cannot happen to them, they are in compliance with the rules...Fury weren't at the minutes they tried to ignore CONCACAF ruling on their status.

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

How many investors will get cold feet and delay starting a franchise, which in turn leads to CanPL fans getting tired of the stale, same 7 clubs and slowly drifting away to where there are only 1-3000 per attending per game?

There's still up ton18 wanting a club including 3 being very close. My answer, none.

If anything, the prospect of not having to compete with the Fury with a possibility of using TD should make already interested investors in Ottawa more eager this time.

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

When the media money runs out in 10 years and there is no follow-up contract, what then? I don't know about you guys, but I'm really concerned about unexpected ramifications of today's events on the future of Canadian Soccer

No one can predict 10 years from now, but I doubt anyone remembers nor links a no follow up of a media contract in 2029 10 to the Ottawa Fury folding in 2019.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Slightly off topic, I do wonder whether this could lead to a change in USL rules regarding Canadians as domestic players. On the one hand, that might mean fewer professional spots for Canadians, but on the other hand it might increase the overall quality of the CPL?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Folding. Serious problems. The TFCII talk is crazy. They are a bonified reserve team playing in D3. There isn't a comparable league where it would be feasible for them to play in. The fact that they will never be allowed to play in the CPL is one case, the fact that TFCIII plays in L1O shows is another case. 

It's a joke that they are even being mentioned as a reference for the Fury farcical. This cased is closed. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Viruk42 said:

Slightly off topic, I do wonder whether this could lead to a change in USL rules regarding Canadians as domestic players. On the one hand, that might mean fewer professional spots for Canadians, but on the other hand it might increase the overall quality of the CPL?

I"ve been thinking about that as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Decentralization of powers / Chain of Command. FIFA can't be everywhere to enforce its rules thus

CONCACAF -- North, Central America and Caribbeans, continental issues, leagues, tournaments etc...

CSA -- Canadians affairs, leagues, clubs etc...

Because they were told last year and they wouldn't listen. Also, how do we know that CONCACAF ghosted them? I'd they did, it's because they haven't changed their minds since last year...yet irresponsibly, they pursue in planning for 2020 and say it publicly.

At some point...you're done talking and you simply wait for the application to denied it.

It's on the Fury. They were told by CONCACAF in a communique that was made public that they didn't recognize the "exceptional" clause of Article 73 applied to them.

Instead of acknowledging that, they buried their heads in the sand and kept pushing forward like "business as usual". That's insubordination in most places.

The press conference showed that pattern of "entitlement" when they said that "they felt that based on past accomplishments, they should dictate the terms of joining CPL (paraphrasing)

How the hell are they more special than FC Edmonton? Someone has to explain it to me.

Going after CONCACAF is going after FIFA. In the grand scheme of things, Canada and MLS is a blimp in the FIFA Universe. If the most powerful Euro clubs can't get their super league pass, which would challenge Article 73, please explain why MLS and 3 Canadian clubs ever hope to do better than Manchester City, Paris St-Germain, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and company.

At the end of the day, FIFA has last say.

According to CBC, they aren't excluding restarting in USL with an US based team. If that's true, maybe they really want a soccer club and help Canadian soccer. The problem with them, is that it seems like EVERYTHING must be done on their OWN terms. 

Canada doesn't need that. I bid them good luck in the states if they go down that route and I'll applaud their efforts in playing Canadians down south, but get out of the way in Ottawa.

Montagliani is enforcing Article 73, the same way he enforce it whenever a North American league comes up, the same way UEFA killed any attempts at a Super League in Europe. I'm not denying that his Canadian background made him more eager than past presidents to enforce the rules but he's doing his job at the end of the day.

It's ugly, it's messy, a club died. The bigger picture is that in the long term, USL in Ottawa gave little to no benefit to Canadian soccer as a whole except helping out Montreal Impact who shut down their reserve team. If I'm wrong, why am I seeing 3 CPL players being called up and no USL? Objectively, no one can argue that an Ottawa player deserved it better than Carducci, Zator and Didic

Doubtful. Fury didn't draw casuals. You need to do that to get to the next level.

They play in Canada, in a Canadian sanctioned league. That cannot happen to them, they are in compliance with the rules...Fury weren't at the minutes they tried to ignore CONCACAF ruling on their status.

There's still up ton18 wanting a club including 3 being very close. My answer, none.

If anything, the prospect of not having to compete with the Fury with a possibility of using TD should make already interested investors in Ottawa more eager this time.

No one can predict 10 years from now, but I doubt anyone remembers nor links a no follow up of a media contract in 2029 10 to the Ottawa Fury folding in 2019.

Ten years does seem extreme.  But I will be unequivocally clear on one thing: the proportion of casuals at a Fury game is/was much higher than I’ve ever seen anywhere.  The new club in the CPL will have to draw those casuals back plus a few thousand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Ten years does seem extreme.  But I will be unequivocally clear on one thing: the proportion of casuals at a Fury game is/was much higher than I’ve ever seen anywhere.  The new club in the CPL will have to draw those casuals back plus a few thousand.

I'd argue that a CPL team will be better equipped to do so.

Inaugural season game at TD Stadium vs. Halifax, Forge or Cavalry

On CBC, Onesoccer or cable (according to Mediapro)

That's a huge advantage over the Fury 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I'd argue that a CPL team will be better equipped to do so.

Inaugural season game at TD Stadium vs. Halifax, Forge or Cavalry

On CBC, Onesoccer or cable (according to Mediapro)

That's a huge advantage over the Fury 

I hope the crowds come back and improve and I think they will.  But it will not be as easy as most people think as the CPL is pretty unknown.

Edited by JamboAl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I hope the crowds come back and improve and I think they will.  But it will not be as easy as most people think as the CPL is pretty unknown.

The USL was unknown too, I'm sure fans will figure out a rivalry with Hamilton or Calgary just as quick as they figured out where in the hell is Swope Park or Loudoun united is.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, dnina10 said:

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/11/08/montreal-impact-release-statement-affiliate-ottawa-fury-ceasing-operations

 

This is the Montreal Impact's statement regarding the Fury's ceasing of operation

Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I find some of their characterizations interesting.  

A reserve or affiliate team is vital in order to give playing time to our young players.”

“Fury FC were Montreal's lower-league affiliate 2017-19”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Rintaran said:

That may be longer than expected. FC Gatineau just folded up their PLSQ operations, so don't expect any sort of step up from them.

If Ottawa Fury fold, as we all fear, that leaves OSU Force in League1 Ontario as the highest-level of soccer in the capital region.

Carleton U?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If The Fury/OSEG were hell belt on staying USL CONCACAF/CSA should have just let them. If CONCACAF\CPL is telling them the only place they can play, is the CPL , is there not an obligation for the CPL to just let them in, it kind of reads like OSEG is being told them need to partner with the CPL and neither of them are really understand. Who is setting the terms here , the CSA? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Cblake said:

If The Fury/OSEG were hell belt on staying USL CONCACAF/CSA should have just let them. If CONCACAF\CPL is telling them the only place they can play, is the CPL , is there not an obligation for the CPL to just let them in, it kind of reads like OSEG is being told them need to partner with the CPL and neither of them are really understand. Who is setting the terms here , the CSA? 

They were told to move last year when the price would have been minimal or free.  They challenged that, threatened legal action, maintained that they wanted to stay in USL, and made no arrangements or plans to address what they were told.  

And this isn’t a CSA issue. It is CONCACAF, enforcing FIFA’s rules.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Viruk42 said:

Why? 

Here is the question then, who has more power here, the CSA or CPL/CSB, if the the CSA say you can only play in the CPL then they have to be let in. The CSA can dictate that. 
 

OSEG has five owners of which John Pugh is one them. He is a true soccer guy and sits on the CSA board. This whole thing is bizarre. By not letting them stay in the USL, they have damaged the market, as going with no team in 2020 makes a out of sight, out of mind scenario. I can see OSEG deciding that rugby league looks interesting and with all the buzz it’s getting right now with Sonny Bill Williams signing with Toronto, I can see that interest really ramping up.

I know it’s not ideal in some eyes to be in USL, but it’s a much better option than not having a team at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Cblake said:

I know it’s not ideal in some eyes to be in USL, but it’s a much better option than not having a team at all.

There is a third option that some keep ignoring - getting a CPL team up and running in Ottawa. 

Yes, this is a loss in the near term and it sucks for Ottawa footy fans. But if OSEG was as resistant to the idea of joining CPL as some of their comments and actions suggest (though this is still speculation) maybe people in the know thought it was better to get started in the hard work of building an Ottawa based CPL team than perpetuate the status quo.   

I still maintain that if this ultimately results in a CPL team in Ottawa, it will have been the right move. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Cblake said:

Here is the question then, who has more power here, the CSA or CPL/CSB, if the the CSA say you can only play in the CPL then they have to be let in. The CSA can dictate that. 
 

OSEG has five owners of which John Pugh is one them. He is a true soccer guy and sits on the CSA board. This whole thing is bizarre. By not letting them stay in the USL, they have damaged the market, as going with no team in 2020 makes a out of sight, out of mind scenario. I can see OSEG deciding that rugby league looks interesting and with all the buzz it’s getting right now with Sonny Bill Williams signing with Toronto, I can see that interest really ramping up.

I know it’s not ideal in some eyes to be in USL, but it’s a much better option than not having a team at all.

From what the Fury have said, it was neither the CSA, nor the CPL, that made the decision. They wanted to stay in USL, apparently the CSA gave them the okay. Which suggests it's CONCACAF/FIFA, maybe US Soccer, that wasn't cool with it. But why should they be cool with it? They don't care about Ottawa, or even really Canadian soccer, they likely have bigger concerns. The Fury wanted sanctioning to be in USL, but why should CONCACAF give them the okay? They don't have to, they have rules in place for this kind of situation and the Fury wanted to be special, despite no evidence that they actually deserved to be treated as a special case. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Fury and OSEG aren’t victims here. This is exactly what most of us said would happen when they chose to play the role of stick in the mud. This was very avoidable and foreseeable, and it’s entirely the Fury’s own doing. I feel for the fans, as I said in a previous comment, but I won’t go along with this bs about the Fury being innocent little victims who were blindsided by this monstrosity! 
 

I hope we can all move on. I hope that a new CPL club is created in Ottawa now, owner by serious people. It’s what Ottawa fans deserve. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

The USL was unknown too, I'm sure fans will figure out a rivalry with Hamilton or Calgary just as quick as they figured out where in the hell is Swope Park or Loudoun united is.  

Sorry, what I meant was that the average fan has heard of Saint Louis FC, but won't know where Valour FC is.  Education will be required to tell people that Valour = Winnipeg.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...