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CDNFootballer

Ottawa CPL Club

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On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 7:49 AM, JamboAl said:

In the true sense of a stadium, no.  There are pitches with bleachers at high schools.

So what you are saying is that there are plenty of CanPL calibre stadiums?

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On 10/4/2019 at 8:07 PM, CDNFootballer said:

Ottawa is in a somewhat unique position though as it has a yearly option to opt out of the league unlike the USA franchises in that league that have 10 year franchise agreements where exiting is heavily restricted and cost $.

I've never heard any of my Fury ticket reps say that they have an escape clause. They've told me in the past there are sunk costs to recoup before they jump leagues again, though honestly I'm not sure what to believe anymore.

As everyone in this thread is so fond of business metrics, I'm sure OSEG is looking at them as well. Most posters can't see why OSEG doesn't jump to the CanPL immediately. I say, follow the money - there must be some revenue streams that we're not privy to that makes staying in USL the better option right now. If CanPL went to OSEG and laid out their revenue streams and expenses and could demonstrate that the Fury would be more profitable in CanPL than USL, I bet the Fury would jump at the chance to increase their ROI. The fact that they haven't yet, despite rumours of losing millions over the past couple of years and ongoing discussions with CanPL, indicates to me that either there are risks that we don't know about or they are getting funding to stay afloat from another source.

The risks could be that CanPL is in its first season and we have to see if there is a sophomore slump in attendance figures in 2020. None of the CanPL clubs have a full season under their belt yet, so no costs have been published yet. Also, the Fury may have run numbers to indicate they can't afford to participate in CONCACAF League play if they managed to win the league. They know they'll never be able to win the Voyageurs Cup so they could still sell us fans on that dream of higher-level play. (Speaking of high-level play, the general consensus is that if the Fury joined, only Forge and Cavalry would provided any challenge, which I disagree with considering how we played against HFX Wanderers.)

The Fury have an affiliation with the Montreal Impact and also some loaned TFC players - perhaps one or both MLS teams are providing a subsidy to keep the Fury operating in the USL at a known talent level. But the CPL has shown they can defeat MLS-level clubs, so there may be a re-evaluation of the CanPL by MLS clubs in the off-season and may prod the Fury in the CanPL direction.

And as for those midweek attendance numbers quoted up-thread, I was at all those games and there is no way there were that many people in the stands versus Indy Eleven (those of use in the supporters section thought it was about 2500 max). But it was also a cool night and school had started up again, so they probably just used the Season Ticket base + the number of walk-up purchases.

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52 minutes ago, Initial B said:

... I say, follow the money - there must be some revenue streams that we're not privy to that makes staying in USL the better option right now. ...

A slice on expansion fees from teams that joined after they did is the obvious one, but it's usually claimed on here that only goes to the league owners.

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3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

A slice on expansion fees from teams that joined after they did is the obvious one, but it's usually claimed on here that only goes to the league owners.

Not only on here, but its already known USL teams don't get a cut of expansion and there were twitter posts posted on this board showing that as well a while back.

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5 hours ago, Initial B said:

I've never heard any of my Fury ticket reps say that they have an escape clause. They've told me in the past there are sunk costs to recoup before they jump leagues again, though honestly I'm not sure what to believe anymore.

As everyone in this thread is so fond of business metrics, I'm sure OSEG is looking at them as well. Most posters can't see why OSEG doesn't jump to the CanPL immediately. I say, follow the money - there must be some revenue streams that we're not privy to that makes staying in USL the better option right now. If CanPL went to OSEG and laid out their revenue streams and expenses and could demonstrate that the Fury would be more profitable in CanPL than USL, I bet the Fury would jump at the chance to increase their ROI. The fact that they haven't yet, despite rumours of losing millions over the past couple of years and ongoing discussions with CanPL, indicates to me that either there are risks that we don't know about or they are getting funding to stay afloat from another source.

The risks could be that CanPL is in its first season and we have to see if there is a sophomore slump in attendance figures in 2020. None of the CanPL clubs have a full season under their belt yet, so no costs have been published yet. Also, the Fury may have run numbers to indicate they can't afford to participate in CONCACAF League play if they managed to win the league. They know they'll never be able to win the Voyageurs Cup so they could still sell us fans on that dream of higher-level play. (Speaking of high-level play, the general consensus is that if the Fury joined, only Forge and Cavalry would provided any challenge, which I disagree with considering how we played against HFX Wanderers.)

The Fury have an affiliation with the Montreal Impact and also some loaned TFC players - perhaps one or both MLS teams are providing a subsidy to keep the Fury operating in the USL at a known talent level. But the CPL has shown they can defeat MLS-level clubs, so there may be a re-evaluation of the CanPL by MLS clubs in the off-season and may prod the Fury in the CanPL direction.

And as for those midweek attendance numbers quoted up-thread, I was at all those games and there is no way there were that many people in the stands versus Indy Eleven (those of use in the supporters section thought it was about 2500 max). But it was also a cool night and school had started up again, so they probably just used the Season Ticket base + the number of walk-up purchases.

Its been publicised previously how Fury have a yearly out of the USL. Its likely a few factors why Fury haven't made the jump, they apparently are paying their multimillion expansion fee in USL over a 10 year period for one, so having still to pay that and jumping to a new league is one factor. Exit fees are another.

Since Fury are a minor league affiliate for MLS they do get a subsidy of sorts with players that come from the parent MLS franchise, something they can't get in CPL since its Canada's 1st Division and doesn't accept minor league affiliates or reserve teams.

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^Echo that. 

I think the wage subsidies is very important.  Could be roadblock #1 (or #2) to joining CPL at this point.  Any time you can get a player for less, like when a parent club covers a portion of a loaned player's salary it isn't a bad thing (so far as the bean counters are concerned).  Unless league rules stipulate the entire salary for a player counts against a teams cap regardless of who pays it.  Then there might be a problem (as far a the manager is concerned).   Even if Ottawa got an exemption for a season or two, ie being allowed to accept subsidised playes on loan, that exemption would expire.  Their revenue side of the ledger would have to be strong enough to accept that.  

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The flip side is that it wouldn’t be a big deal if the situation in Ottawa was replicated in other CPL clubs.  For me, the issue is any preferential treatment that Ottawa might get.  As others have said, loans are not objectionable in and of themselves.  If the 3 MLS sides recognized the value of player loans to all CPL sides, where they would face a really high level of competition, I don’t really see an issue.  But you can’t justify that if Ottawa has a disproportionate number of loaners or if they get special treatment through some affiliation status. 

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2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

The flip side is that it wouldn’t be a big deal if the situation in Ottawa was replicated in other CPL clubs.  For me, the issue is any preferential treatment that Ottawa might get.  As others have said, loans are not objectionable in and of themselves.  If the 3 MLS sides recognized the value of player loans to all CPL sides, where they would face a really high level of competition, I don’t really see an issue.  But you can’t justify that if Ottawa has a disproportionate number of loaners or if they get special treatment through some affiliation status. 

Don't forget about the at least one other who says the opposite! From the smaller (borrowing) clubs' perspective anyway. From the bigger (lending) clubs' perspective they are a dream come true: have somebody else develop your players for you with lots of playing time and then cherry pick the best of them with no transfer fee payable. Awesome!

CPL would do well to consider carefully the downside of allowing incoming player loans (loans out are fine!).

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12 hours ago, Ansem said:

Going back in hiding

I find it very odd that Kurt Larson is tweeting about a team that's not in the league. I would look at this as a positive, as an Ottawan that wants the Fury in the CPL, but considering he was bickering with Fury supporters last season I fear this is just the beginning of more petty twitter ********.

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Interesting to note that one of the replies to that tweet mentions that the Fury have to submit their special designation application in November and that the USL is requiring a signed 3 year commitment from all clubs. Not sure if that applies to the Fury as its been widely reported the Fury have an exit to the CPL if they want.

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3 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Interesting to note that one of the replies to that tweet mentions that the Fury have to submit their special designation application in November and that the USL is requiring a signed 3 year commitment from all clubs. Not sure if that applies to the Fury as its been widely reported the Fury have an exit to the CPL if they want.

Most likely exempts Ottawa from that as the CSA & CONCACAF can pull the plug at anytime. 

Edited by Ansem

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3 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

I find it very odd that Kurt Larson is tweeting about a team that's not in the league. I would look at this as a positive, as an Ottawan that wants the Fury in the CPL, but considering he was bickering with Fury supporters last season I fear this is just the beginning of more petty twitter ********.

He tweets about TFC all the time 

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20 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

It’s not like TFC just disappeared.  They’re still the most popular club in Canada.

Even though I have Forge season seats doesn’t mean I haven’t been to TFC games this year or watched them on TV,  I’ve been following them for 12 years; you don’t just stop being a fan.

For sure, not questioning his fandom. He's the head of media for a different league though, seems odd to me to be using an account which he uses for a lot of "official" CPL related information. 

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13 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

For sure, not questioning his fandom. He's the head of media for a different league though, seems odd to me to be using an account which he uses for a lot of "official" CPL related information. 

Its the same account he was using previously. Its much better off for him to use the same account for CPL as well to engage all the followers he already had

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Just now, deschamp86 said:

Its the same account he was using previously. Its much better off for him to use the same account for CPL as well to engage all the followers he already had

Ya I get that too, still seems odd. Almost any Canadian soccer fan who doesn't know his back story they would read his twitter bio "@OneSoccer Analyst/Head of Content" and then read comments and probably be confused.

Anyway, just my two cents!

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23 hours ago, Ansem said:

Going back in hiding

It will be interesting to see how this plays out this year (and not just in terms of resolution). Last year, CONCACAF dropped a bombshell and then walked it back. I don’t see that happening again this year. I think whatever the decision, the first signal will be the final signal.   

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