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Ottawa CPL Club

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Would MLSE and the MLS just put peanut butter on OSEG gumbs and just speak threw a little hidden mic, or how would that meeting work?

Do you really believe that MLSE are pulling the strings or the stuff about JDG steering OSEG away because of the front office falling under a salary cap? That sort of stuff is probably more palatable emotionally for some people than accepting that there appears to be a reluctance to leave USL, because the bean counters at OSEG still see that as the better long term investment because of what is projected to happen with the USSF's D2 when MLS stops expanding and because they are far from convinced about CanPL's staying power.

What CanPL really needs to do to get the Fury on board is demonstrate that they are definitely here to stay and that the Fury are better off in a league closer to home, because CanPL is carving out a strong niche within Canada's sporting landscape while the USL is barely even a footnote in that regard. Significantly stronger spectator interest in York 9, Edmonton and Pacific in year two would be one thing that might help sway the calculations being made in Ottawa.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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Other than the franchise fee that USL can get from some suckers, USL teams have nearly no value. 

I'm trying to find info on team sales. They rarely happen. More often teams just fold and close up chop. 

There is no long term advantage for Ottawa to stay in USL. Most of the club's are trying to get into MLS and when they do they just dissolve the USL club. It's just an expense for getting in. 

The rest of the markets will never get in MLS. So they have no inherent value. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

What CanPL really needs to do to get the Fury on board is demonstrate that they are definitely here to stay and that the Fury are better off in a league closer to home, because CanPL is carving out a strong niche within Canada's sporting landscape while the USL is barely even a footnote in that regard. Significantly stronger spectator interest in York 9, Edmonton and Pacific in year two would be one thing that might help sway the calculations being made in Ottawa.

That's inaccurate on many level.

CanPL, rightfully so, is beyond proving itself to OSEG. It's job is to plan and do what's best for it's business, not flirting none stop with the "49er" (a "4" who thinks it's a "9") and approach an "8" or more.

Of course, competing against Fury is risky business and I don't think there's a hurry to make Ottawa CPL happen. We have the luxury to just wait it out until CONCACAF and the CSA pulls the trigger.

However... the league would be "insane" to turn away a deep pocket ownership "willing" and "able" to invest money, to lose money over the long term to grow the club AND "willing to spend to compete for the market". Yes, it's sports but it's a business and people need to understand that the nature of businesses is to compete if they feel there are gains to be made in the long term. Didnt MLS let ownership establish NYCFC to compete against the established NY Cosmos? What happened there?

As always, you're so fixated on attendance (in bad faith) that you either ignore or don't understand that the business model could still be attractive to an owner who gets in early at low price despite the attendance (5 months old), but with CSB benefits and other streams of revenues.

If a very deep pocket group wants in while Fury are still there, CPL would be crazy to deny them, just like MLS welcomed NYCFC when the NY Cosmos thought themselves as "49ers"

 

Edited by Ansem

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10 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Would MLSE and the MLS just put peanut butter on OSEG gumbs and just speak threw a little hidden mic, or how would that meeting work?

Are you more interested in taking cheap shots without any knowledge or would you rather find a solution for what's best for soccer in this country?

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Are you more interested in taking cheap shots without any knowledge or would you rather find a solution for what's best for soccer in this country?

Sports is a business and businesses are going to do what's best for their interests.

I read the "find a solution" or "sit down" arguments but OSEG made clear it was USL or nothing with a "maybe down the road"

If you think CPL will just sit and flirt OSEG with a "maybe down the road", you don't understand Business 101. Takes 2 to dance and OSEG is the inflexible party here.

CPL has bo choice but to act accordingly for it's own interest. If the Fury were in Gatineau or Guelph or Sherbrooke, all of this would have been a non-issue.

This is Ottawa, the nation's capital and 4th agglomeration in the country. The league needs it for it's business. I'm amazed how many people can't stomach that businesses COMPETE. Aren't we in a capitalist society?

It's wishful thinking to think that CPL (made of ownership that got wealthy by being ruthless with their competitors) would just lay down and take this from OSEG.

Guys, wake up

Edited by Ansem

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On October 2, 2019 at 6:54 AM, narduch said:

This just further proves how dumb the Fury are for staying in USL.

This reminds me of a popular phrase in Latinamerica: "Quedarse sin la soga y sin la cabra"

Literal: To remain without the rope and without the goat 🐐.

 

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The OSEG CEO has said in interviews that the lines of communication remain open. It's likely that all the armchair GMs on the internet message boards are taking this a lot more personally and with more emotion than the actual people involved.

Really, the best way forward is for the CPL to just go about its business and build a successful league. It's known from Day One that if it's going to be successful, it will have to achieve success without several of the largest markets in the country (i.e. MLS). For now, Ottawa is just one more market in that list, just a lot smaller than the other three. There are lots of other cities that don't have teams, they can go build there to reach the point where the Fury feel it is financially necessary to be part of the league (which for reasons known only to them, isn't the situation today). Hopefully that this is exactly what the CPL are doing and are not wringing their hands over the situation or planning to wage war.

CONCACAF and the Court for Arbitration in Sport are just two wildcards and could change the situation, but no one knows how things will play out so you can't really plan around them.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

Are you more interested in taking cheap shots without any knowledge or would you rather find a solution for what's best for soccer in this country?

Why do I have to find a solution? I dont work for anyone. Who's listening to me? If they are, look I found one.. it's like this. Ottawa Fury, joins the CPL

I'm sure JDGs career goals dont include being Fury GM for the next 30 years. To me he's been just angling for a job in TFC front office the entire time. Can't knock the hustle. Sounds like a perfect job for him.

 

Just to be clear.. my opinion is simple. Ottawa is a tremendous city, growing city, great Stadium, Fury have great fans, the market is perfect for CPL and would do great

I just think MLSE and MLS have dug their claws into OSEG and they're using them to try and make life difficult for the CPL. Fury could join tomorrow and everything would be great for them. Period, case closed as far as I'm concerned

Edited by SpursFlu

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22 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Just to be clear.. my opinion is simple. Ottawa is a tremendous city, growing city, great Stadium, Fury have great fans, the market is perfect for CPL and would do great

Fans of Ottawa deserves better

24 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

 

I just think MLSE and MLS have dug their claws into OSEG and they're using them to try and make life difficult for the CPL. Fury could join tomorrow and everything would be great for them. Period, case closed as far as I'm concerned

Shhhhh. You'll be branded a conspiracy theorist. 

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Yah conspiracies aren't all about little green men. It's literally 2 groups conspiring together.. so yah that happens all the time in business. It's really not outrageous. Especially within the framework of American professional sports.

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2 hours ago, Ansem said:

Sports is a business and businesses are going to do what's best for their interests.

I read the "find a solution" or "sit down" arguments but OSEG made clear it was USL or nothing with a "maybe down the road"

If you think CPL will just sit and flirt OSEG with a "maybe down the road", you don't understand Business 101. Takes 2 to dance and OSEG is the inflexible party here.

CPL has bo choice but to act accordingly for it's own interest. If the Fury were in Gatineau or Guelph or Sherbrooke, all of this would have been a non-issue.

This is Ottawa, the nation's capital and 4th agglomeration in the country. The league needs it for it's business. I'm amazed how many people can't stomach that businesses COMPETE. Aren't we in a capitalist society?

It's wishful thinking to think that CPL (made of ownership that got wealthy by being ruthless with their competitors) would just lay down and take this from OSEG.

Guys, wake up

Ruthless does not mean stupid.  I’m a capitalist type of guy as well.  But I’m not putting a cent into a team to compete in this market until the competition is gone.  I’m not going to hemorrhage millions to get rid of them cause the payback in years is way too long for me to stomach.  The infrastructure and start up costs as it stands are way too high.  IMO, either OSEG comes into the CPL or they leave the market for another owner into CPL.  

A second team in the Ottawa area will have attendances that make it at the bottom of the league..

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I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I do not see any realistic path to having a successful CPL club in Ottawa that doesn't involve Fury FC. They're well-established, reasonably well supported, and have a lock on the best venue in the city. Any team that tries to compete against that is going to look bush-league in comparison. 

The one thing I would be caustiously optimistic about regarding this new rumour is whether or not they're actually looking to buy the Fury and move them to CPL. OSEG seems less than sold on the Fury anyway, so this could be a win-win scenario. OSEG can sell off the Fury and lease the stadium access rights to a new ownership group, who then get an established brand with a perfect venue competing in our league. 

I'm hopeful, but skeptical. 

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2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Ruthless does not mean stupid.  I’m a capitalist type of guy as well.  But I’m not putting a cent into a team to compete in this market until the competition is gone.  I’m not going to hemorrhage millions to get rid of them cause the payback in years is way too long for me to stomach.  The infrastructure and start up costs as it stands are way too high.  IMO, either OSEG comes into the CPL or they leave the market for another owner into CPL.  

A second team in the Ottawa area will have attendances that make it at the bottom of the league..

The established first team in Ottawa (4600 ave this year) would only be 4th highest in CPL right now with no competition.  

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7 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

The established first team in Ottawa (4600 ave this year) would only be 4th highest in CPL right now with no competition.  

Semi-related, the Fury played their last weeknight game of the season yesterday. The reason this is worth highlighting is that it's the only real comparable we have for attendance to see US teams vs Canadian ones. It's imperfect, of course, because of a small sample size, the difference in importance between a regular season game and a cup competition, and the novelty of facing a CPL team for the first time, etc etc. 

June 26 vs Charleston - 3,094
July 24 vs Halifax - 4,443
Aug 7 vs Toronto - 5,809
Sept 18 vs Tampa Bay - 3,200
Oct 2 vs Indy Eleven - 3,145

So obviously Toronto is an outlier, nearly twice as much as versus the USL teams, but it is worth noting that the Halifax attendance was 140% their USL weeknight average. Apply that to the whole season and they go from their ~4.6k average to ~6.5k. 

Again, not claiming this is a perfect comparison or that the Fury in CPL would actually average 6.5k, but it is interesting to see the clear gap between weeknights vs three USL teams and the one HFX game.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Ruthless does not mean stupid.  I’m a capitalist type of guy as well.  But I’m not putting a cent into a team to compete in this market until the competition is gone.  I’m not going to hemorrhage millions to get rid of them cause the payback in years is way too long for me to stomach.  The infrastructure and start up costs as it stands are way too high.

NYCFC were stupid then. You have lower tolerance to risk, doesn't makes you right. 

The higher the risk, the higher the reward. If a rich ownership (who made their fortune by taking high risks) has the pockets to take a risk in a CPL market that has a USL team, who am I to tell them what to do with their money? They are richer than me for a reason...they have higher tolerance to risk than I ever will

5 hours ago, JamboAl said:

IMO, either OSEG comes into the CPL or they leave the market for another owner into CPL.  

Or there's competition 

5 hours ago, JamboAl said:

A second team in the Ottawa area will have attendances that make it at the bottom of the league..

Growing pains, sure. I did say that only very deep pockets could pull it off. Perhaps a serious ownership could make them blink and bring them faster to the table.

Status quo is exactly what OSEG wants and they have ZERO incentive to join CPL or leave as long as CONCACAF doesn't pull the trigger.

Edited by Ansem

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3 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

Curious what your mean by this?

If no adequate ownership is able to open shop in Ottawa, CPL can just go it's business until CONCACAF revoke their sanctioning paving the way to a CPL team.

In the eventuality that CONCACAF takes too long or doesn't do anything, CPL will compete. That's Clanachan saying it and he's just the mouthpiece of the owners. If he's saying that, it means they are willing to compete for the market.

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34 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

So what your saying is people in Ottawa are more interested in watching their team play places they may have actually been or know people from

 

Shocking

Exactly.

Fury average right now ~4000 under these circumstances:

No CBC games

No streaming apps

Less advertising, sponsors & exposure

No Continental tournament qualifications

No rivalries (TFC II isn't one)

Opponents no one care about

 

An ownership offering

CBC games & streaming platform 

Better advertising, sponsors and exposure 

Something to play for (CONCACAF League)

RIVALRIES!!! (York9? Forge? Laval? Quebec?) Take a pick

Which is the better draw? Cavalry or Charleston? Pacific or Loudoun? Halifax or Bethlehem?

Under the right circumstances, Ottawa can draw better attendance than the Fury

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5 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Yah conspiracies aren't all about little green men. It's literally 2 groups conspiring together.. so yah that happens all the time in business. It's really not outrageous. Especially within the framework of American professional sports.

Exactly hence the saying "it's business, not personal"

I find it amusing that people find it "ok" for these two to conspire together to protect their interests but HOW DARE CPL even entertain furthering it's interest and setting the stage to compete for the market?

Lol

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Ansem said:

NYCFC were stupid then. You have lower tolerance to risk, doesn't makes you right. 

The higher the risk, the higher the reward. If a rich ownership (who made their fortune by taking high risks) has the pockets to take a risk in a CPL market that has a USL team, who am I to tell them what to do with their money? They are richer than me for a reason...they have higher tolerance to risk than I ever will

Or there's competition 

Growing pains, sure. I did say that only very deep pockets could pull it off. Perhaps a serious ownership could make them blink and bring them faster to the table.

Status quo is exactly what OSEG wants and they have ZERO incentive to join CPL or leave as long as CONCACAF doesn't pull the trigger.

I can't believe you just compared the folks that own NYCFC (and Manchester City) to the CPL and the New York market to Ottawa.  

Anyways, in my opinion, it seems your take on competition is more bravado than economics.

But I will agree with you on one thing, I don't get any impression that the CPL is in OSEG's immediate plans.

Edited by JamboAl

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