Ottawa CPL Club

[Cheeta]

^ I don't know but I also have my suspisions that if the Fury faced legitimate CPL competition in Ottawa that they would collapse like a house of cards.  Literally.

If there are some monied footie people who are looking towards 2026 and have an eye on the Ottawa market, they might be willing to take a punt on the CPL there.  I would.     

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

A lot of excitement here over a solitary twitter source of unknown veracity. Maybe learn something from what happened in Edmonton with the Katz to take over from FCE at launch rumour?

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

A lot of excitement here over a solitary twitter source of unknown veracity. Maybe learn something from what happened in Edmonton with the Katz to take over from FCE at launch rumour?

You're right... we should try to not emulate you by picking and choosing source that are convenient to our narrative 🤣

Joke aside...

Only very deep pockets could set up shop in Ottawa and compete against the USL Fury. A more modest group would have been wise to wait the whole thing out.

If indeed, very deep pockets are pushing for Ottawa, it's the 5th metro area in the country. Makes sense that they want it ahead of a much smaller area.

I dont think there's anything wrong with the NCR area, just need a different marketing strategy, approach and set of circumstances something I doubt OSEG has fully mastered...granted that the league itself hasn't been much help.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Ansem

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Don't know anything about this twitter account, but here's what another poster you might recognize from this subforum makes of  it on Reddit:

 

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Don't know anything about this twitter account, but here's what another poster you might recognize from this subforum makes of  it on Reddit:

 

That's why I posted the tweet from Rollins who said he didn't know about the poster but he also heard that another group wants to bring a team in Ottawa, something the league already said was the case.

Dont pick and choose

[narduch]

This just further proves how dumb the Fury are for staying in USL.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

7 minutes ago, Ansem said:

That's why I posted the tweet from Rollins who said he didn't know about the poster but he also heard that another group wants to bring a team in Ottawa, something the league already said was the case.

Dont pick and choose

Rollins doesn't say that. All he says is what he has heard is more likely to happen.

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Rollins doesn't say that. All he says is what he has heard is more likely to happen.

Which the league already said...they have been in contact with other groups interested in Ottawa. 

It's really nothing new. We can question how rich prospective owners are and how hard they are pushing or if the league has indeed blacklisted OSEG although they said the door was open...however Clanachan did say CPL would be in Ottawa, OSEG or not. 

It's not unrealistic that they have a plan without them. One thing is for sure, you need $$$ to both start a team and outgrow the Fury. Doable but requires way more cash than starting unopposed 

[narduch]

Just saw a news report that USL club Fresno may close up shop.

I'm not saying the CPL has proven long term sustainability yet. I just don't think USL is the way forward for Fury.

[BuzzAndSting]

6 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

A lot of excitement here over a solitary twitter source of unknown veracity. Maybe learn something from what happened in Edmonton with the Katz to take over from FCE at launch rumour?

A lot of excitement? From who?

[Shway]

Two teams in Ottawa seems like a recipe for disaster. The CPL team would require a stadium and a good team. The USL team would need some marquee players to boost interest, and a championship challenge - both seem highly unlikely. 

[Sébastien]

15 hours ago, Ansem said:

A Wanderers style stadium on LeBreton Flats or along the LRT would be interesting 

Lebreton Flats won't see any development for, oh I figure another 5 years, ever since the proposal with the arena fell through.

It requires approval by the National Capital Commission, and they're starting the whole process from scratch.

On the LRT, I can't imagine developers agreeing to a pop-up stadium on any available land along the line. Hell, the city-owned already-existing baseball stadium is surrounded by talks of getting knocked down to develop additional housing.

If a new CPL team decides to setup shop and not play at Lansdowne, their best option (by far IMO) would be to put up serious money to make something worth it out of the Carleton University stadium, where the Fury played for the first half of their inaugural season. There's parking, there is train service, and it's a known location. However, there's nothing else really that close by.

Finally, anything that requires public funds (including land donations) would be quite unpalatable, as the first question I would expect the VAST majority of people would ask is why they're paying any money for a 2nd stadium for a 2nd soccer team.

I don't doubt some people/groups have knocked at the CPL door, but I just can't imagine a realistic, concrete proposal to have a CPL club go head-to-head with the Fury in this market.

**EDIT** Even more so considering that ticket prices for both leagues are very similar, if not Calgary and York levels of "holy cr*p those price points will kill a club in Ottawa".

Edited October 2, 2019 by Sébastien

[Ansem]

26 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

Lebreton Flats won't see any development for, oh I figure another 5 years, ever since the proposal with the arena fell through.

Pop up temporary stadium like Halifax doesn't mean acquiring the land. You can rent the land and vacant at the end of the season until there's a concrete permanent plan there.

[BuzzAndSting]

8 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Pop up temporary stadium like Halifax doesn't mean acquiring the land. You can rent the land and vacant at the end of the season until there's a concrete permanent plan there.

Lebreton isn't anywhere close to what the Wanderers Ground was from the outset. Lebreton is more a construction site. It's massive and there is no easy access to city infrastructure like plumbing and electricity so pop up seems very unrealistic.

On top of that, as has been mentioned, the NCC has rejected many proposals for partial development of the site. They want a complete vision taken on by one entity.

As mentioned, I think the best option is Keith Harris stadium at Carleton University.

[Viruk42]

28 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

If a new CPL team decides to setup shop and not play at Lansdowne, their best option (by far IMO) would be to put up serious money to make something worth it out of the Carleton University stadium, where the Fury played for the first half of their inaugural season. There's parking, there is train service, and it's a known location. However, there's nothing else really that close by.

It may be the best option, but there are other decent ones, even ignoring Lebreton. For instance, Ottawa U's Lees campus has a shit turf field (I play there in the winter under the dome) but is arguably a better location than Carleton (having both a train station and being just off the Queensway, though there's more parking at Carleton). Not as convenient to get to, but the Terry Fox Athletic Facility is a decent spot, has the space to put in a pop-up. The main field has a track around it but there are two other fields there, so that doesn't have to be an issue. If we're considering undeveloped areas, then I would point to near Hurdman station, which I gather is supposed to be redeveloped at some point but knowing this city is probably 40 years away...

The point is that a potential CPL team doesn't have to be pigeonholed into working with OSEG and facing the same optics issue of ~5k fans in a 24k seat stadium, nor does Carleton have such a great location that their self-interested administration can hold out for more money to stash in their slush fund that is never used to help students or workers.

[Sébastien]

1 minute ago, Viruk42 said:

It may be the best option, but there are other decent ones, even ignoring Lebreton. For instance, Ottawa U's Lees campus has a **** turf field (I play there in the winter under the dome) but is arguably a better location than Carleton (having both a train station and being just off the Queensway, though there's more parking at Carleton). Not as convenient to get to, but the Terry Fox Athletic Facility is a decent spot, has the space to put in a pop-up. The main field has a track around it but there are two other fields there, so that doesn't have to be an issue. If we're considering undeveloped areas, then I would point to near Hurdman station, which I gather is supposed to be redeveloped at some point but knowing this city is probably 40 years away...

The point is that a potential CPL team doesn't have to be pigeonholed into working with OSEG and facing the same optics issue of ~5k fans in a 24k seat stadium, nor does Carleton have such a great location that their self-interested administration can hold out for more money to stash in their slush fund that is never used to help students or workers.

Maybe the UofO stadium... I had never really though of it, because you're probably starting from further back than Keith Harris, imo. Would require more funds to get it up to a Wanderers level stadium, no?

Land along the LRT will be for commercial or housing developments. The hoops that someone would have to go through at City Hall to get a pop-up sports stadium setup along the route would likely be quite cumbersome. I'm sure anyone who wants to develop that land will be doing so asap, and if there are bureaucratic loopholes, those same ones would exist for a pop-up.

There are definitely possibilities if you go further outside of the downtown core. But at that point, another club is dead before it even starts.

Frankly, if the CPL really want a club in the NCR to go head-to-head with the Fury, I think they might be better off attempting something in Gatineau...

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Sébastien said:

Maybe the UofO stadium... I had never really though of it, because you're probably starting from further back than Keith Harris, imo. Would require more funds to get it up to a Wanderers level stadium, no?

Land along the LRT will be for commercial or housing developments. The hoops that someone would have to go through at City Hall to get a pop-up sports stadium setup along the route would likely be quite cumbersome. I'm sure anyone who wants to develop that land will be doing so asap, and if there are bureaucratic loopholes, those same ones would exist for a pop-up.

There are definitely possibilities if you go further outside of the downtown core. But at that point, another club is dead before it even starts.

Frankly, if the CPL really want a club in the NCR to go head-to-head with the Fury, I think they might be better off attempting something in Gatineau...

100% agreed.  There is little or no land within the LRT you could put a pop-up soccer stadium that would be affordable to even rent.     

Another problem is that even if you could play at UOttawa or Carleton, you might go from two teams to zero within a few years, assuming both owners are hard headed and going to compete with each other.  The support would be cannabalized and you'd get 2.000 going to watch USL and maybe 2,000 going to watch CPL.  If there is a team in Kanata or Orleans or even Gatineau (no facility BTW), you might get people living out there going but not from the extreme ends of the city.  I know I would support a team at either end of the city but  probably wouldn't be buying a season ticket if I had to trek out that way every home game.   

[Sébastien]

17 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

100% agreed.  There is little or no land within the LRT you could put a pop-up soccer stadium that would be affordable to even rent.     

Another problem is that even if you could play at UOttawa or Carleton, you might go from two teams to zero within a few years, assuming both owners are hard headed and going to compete with each other.  The support would be cannabalized and you'd get 2.000 going to watch USL and maybe 2,000 going to watch CPL.  If there is a team in Kanata or Orleans or even Gatineau (no facility BTW), you might get people living out there going but not from the extreme ends of the city.  I know I would support a team at either end of the city but  probably wouldn't be buying a season ticket if I had to trek out that way every home game.   

That's honestly my biggest fear. I honestly have three predictions of what would happen if the CPL set up shop in Ottawa to go head-to-head with the Fury:

1. Other than the most hardcore pro-CPL fans, nobody really cares about the 2nd team. They play in a worst area and a shittier stadium than the Fury, and York9 suddenly gets competition on the attendance front. Casual fans and families continue to go watch the team that they know and has been present in the community for years.

2. Exactly the scenario you outlined.

3. Exactly the scenario you outlined, with the caveat that whoever fronts the new CPL club is planning to lose tons of money and out-wait the Fury, hoping they fold first, and hoping that the same people go watch the CPL club once they're the only game in town.

None of these sound feasible or positive for the future of professional soccer in Ottawa.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Sébastien

[Ottawafan]

A second team isn’t happening. What needs to happen is the two groups, CPL and OSEG need to sit down and iron this out. 

[CDNFootballer]

2 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

A second team isn’t happening. What needs to happen is the two groups, CPL and OSEG need to sit down and iron this out. 

They already tried that, concessions were given to Ottawa to join at launch.

Now its either the Fury pay the no doubt raised expansion fee and abide fully by the CPL rules or stay in USL. I think It'll be a couple years still before we either see them in CPL or fold unfortunately.

[Viruk42]

Could the other potential investors be banking on the idea that the Fury's sanctioning will be revoked? It's perhaps a stretch, but if OSEG would rather fold than go to the CPL, then maybe the other investors plan to swoop in after. 

[SpursFlu]

6 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

A second team isn’t happening. What needs to happen is the two groups, CPL and OSEG need to sit down and iron this out. 

Would MLSE and the MLS just put peanut butter on OSEG gumbs and just speak threw a little hidden mic, or how would that meeting work?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

6 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Would MLSE and the MLS just put peanut butter on OSEG gumbs and just speak threw a little hidden mic, or how would that meeting work?

Do you really believe that MLSE are pulling the strings or the stuff about JDG steering OSEG away because of the front office falling under a salary cap? That sort of stuff is probably more palatable emotionally for some people than accepting that there appears to be a reluctance to leave USL, because the bean counters at OSEG still see that as the better long term investment because of what is projected to happen with the USSF's D2 when MLS stops expanding and because they are far from convinced about CanPL's staying power.

What CanPL really needs to do to get the Fury on board is demonstrate that they are definitely here to stay and that the Fury are better off in a league closer to home, because CanPL is carving out a strong niche within Canada's sporting landscape while the USL is barely even a footnote in that regard. Significantly stronger spectator interest in York 9, Edmonton and Pacific in year two would be one thing that might help sway the calculations being made in Ottawa.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[narduch]

Other than the franchise fee that USL can get from some suckers, USL teams have nearly no value. 

I'm trying to find info on team sales. They rarely happen. More often teams just fold and close up chop. 

There is no long term advantage for Ottawa to stay in USL. Most of the club's are trying to get into MLS and when they do they just dissolve the USL club. It's just an expense for getting in. 

The rest of the markets will never get in MLS. So they have no inherent value. 

[Ansem]

4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

What CanPL really needs to do to get the Fury on board is demonstrate that they are definitely here to stay and that the Fury are better off in a league closer to home, because CanPL is carving out a strong niche within Canada's sporting landscape while the USL is barely even a footnote in that regard. Significantly stronger spectator interest in York 9, Edmonton and Pacific in year two would be one thing that might help sway the calculations being made in Ottawa.

That's inaccurate on many level.

CanPL, rightfully so, is beyond proving itself to OSEG. It's job is to plan and do what's best for it's business, not flirting none stop with the "49er" (a "4" who thinks it's a "9") and approach an "8" or more.

Of course, competing against Fury is risky business and I don't think there's a hurry to make Ottawa CPL happen. We have the luxury to just wait it out until CONCACAF and the CSA pulls the trigger.

However... the league would be "insane" to turn away a deep pocket ownership "willing" and "able" to invest money, to lose money over the long term to grow the club AND "willing to spend to compete for the market". Yes, it's sports but it's a business and people need to understand that the nature of businesses is to compete if they feel there are gains to be made in the long term. Didnt MLS let ownership establish NYCFC to compete against the established NY Cosmos? What happened there?

As always, you're so fixated on attendance (in bad faith) that you either ignore or don't understand that the business model could still be attractive to an owner who gets in early at low price despite the attendance (5 months old), but with CSB benefits and other streams of revenues.

If a very deep pocket group wants in while Fury are still there, CPL would be crazy to deny them, just like MLS welcomed NYCFC when the NY Cosmos thought themselves as "49ers"

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Ansem