CPL/L1C - Division II - Pro/Rel discussion

[toontownman]

10 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

It looks like some of the Can PL expansion markets are becoming D2 instead

 

i don’t see why Montreal can’t have a D2, was hoping for a team in Laval or something I would have bought season tickets.

clearly this D2 is happening and a Cdn soccer pyramid is being built, this is only good news. With the D3 coming out west, and now a D2, our U-Sports and NCAA talent is only going to improve.

It looks like a kidney shot to the CPL and their expansion ideas but a safer path for clubs to join D2 until they are ready to pull the trigger for CPL, gives a bit more power to them than CPL potentially just dangling a stick. A solid high standard for the likes of Foothills to play but a market tester for somewhere like SK or some of the other rumoured new teams. Still all conjecture until we get some sort of official announcement and more confirmed details.

[MM3/MM2/MM]

Seems a bit remote for a pro soccer team, I live about 15 minutes from there.

[Aird25]

16 minutes ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

Seems a bit remote for a pro soccer team, I live about 15 minutes from there.

Another stadium well outside the downtown core. 

[Dominic94]

49 minutes ago, toontownman said:

It looks like a kidney shot to the CPL and their expansion ideas but a safer path for clubs to join D2 until they are ready to pull the trigger for CPL, gives a bit more power to them than CPL potentially just dangling a stick. A solid high standard for the likes of Foothills to play but a market tester for somewhere like SK or some of the other rumoured new teams. Still all conjecture until we get some sort of official announcement and more confirmed details.

Agreed. The only good news we have is that Fraser valley should be joining next year and the fact that the Bundesliga or one of their teams may invest in the league and put a team in a place like Quebec.

[CPLWoodenSpoon]

2 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

Agreed. The only good news we have is that Fraser valley should be joining next year and the fact that the Bundesliga or one of their teams may invest in the league and put a team in a place like Quebec.

Bundesliga rumour was for BC team, OL was rumoured to be looking at QC market. 

 

[MM3/MM2/MM]

10 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

1 hour ago, toontownman said:

It looks like a kidney shot to the CPL and their expansion ideas but a safer path for clubs to join D2 until they are ready to pull the trigger for CPL, gives a bit more power to them than CPL potentially just dangling a stick. A solid high standard for the likes of Foothills to play but a market tester for somewhere like SK or some of the other rumoured new teams. Still all conjecture until we get some sort of official announcement and more confirmed details.

 

As much as I like the creation of a D2 (assuming it is done correctly) it may unfortunately slow down the CPL expansion, was hoping for 10 teams by next year with eventually a minimum of 12 teams.  Heady days for Canadian soccer.

Edited March 5, 2021 by MM3/MM2/MM

[Dominic94]

20 minutes ago, CPLWoodenSpoon said:

Bundesliga rumour was for BC team, OL was rumoured to be looking at QC market. 

 

I’ve seen OL rumoured but didn’t know how accurate it was. I know Bundesliga is basically breathing down our necks they’re watching that close.

the reality is a can PL team in Quebec should rival forge.

Farsi, NSA brothers, Sissoko, JGL.... all would have been in QC. I’d go further and add that there’s a ton of youth who could fill the NT’s but the impact just can’t grab them all. Yao, Ferdinand and Giraldo likely would have stayed here aswell. For the sake of breaking the Forge reign of terror the league needs a team on the island.

[Dominic94]

19 minutes ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

As much as I like the creation of a D2 (assuming it is done correctly) it may unfortunately slow down the CPL expansion, was hoping for 10 teams by next year with eventually a minimum of 12 teams.  Heady days for Canadian soccer.

It will be interesting to see, Covid didn’t help they had 2 teams ready, apparently more. I know Fraser valley was confirmed and they were saying 2 in Quebec so what’s happening is what I’d like to know. 

[Watchmen]

18 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

It will be interesting to see, Covid didn’t help they had 2 teams ready, apparently more. I know Fraser valley was confirmed and they were saying 2 in Quebec so what’s happening is what I’d like to know. 

Fraser Valley was never confirmed for CPL. The last official update from the league we got, they weren't even listed as one of the 4 markets in discussion. 

[toontownman]

35 minutes ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

As much as I like the creation of a D2 (assuming it is done correctly) it may unfortunately slow down the CPL expansion, was hoping for 10 teams by next year with eventually a minimum of 12 teams.  Heady days for Canadian soccer.

Definitely potentially puts breaks on immediate expansion, that was happening due to the pandemic anyway. Although maybe this is a tactic from some teams on the bubble to force the CPL to lower the rumoured "expansion fee" and might make CPL cater to any reservations they have.  Could also see CPL being more aggressive in seeking out more Atletico esq. investors in club.

It is potentially exciting if it works and plays out as rumoured we will have a clutch more clubs playing at a higher level than previously and have doubled our pro clubs (even if it looks like most of the teams already exist, the implication, true or not, is that the league should be a higher level than what exists underneath CPL now. Otherwise why would the CSA ratify it.) It should provide a quicker path to a greater number of CPL teams in the future imo, just likely more in the midterm than would have been coming in the shorter term without it.

[CDNFootballer]

23 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

Can you link to the CSA D2 sanctioning standards you are claiming are not significantly different between Canada's D2 and D3 because don't think CSA has released anything publicly.

18 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

This all came out during the CSL desanctioning saga.

So you can't back up your claim/opinion, got it.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

7 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

So you can't back up your claim/opinion, got it.

See no reason why I should have to when it is common knowledge that the latter day CSL was able to easily move back and forth between OSA D3 and CSA D2 sanctioning. Many of the details were in the public domain and discussed on this forum at the time but I frankly can't be bothered tracking them down just for your benefit. If you think CSA D2 is in any way comparable to USSF D2 you are mistaken.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[CDNFootballer]

16 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

See no reason why I should have to when it is common knowledge that the latter day CSL was able to easily move back and forth between OSA D3 and CSA D2 sanctioning. Many of the details were in the public domain and discussed on this forum at the time but I frankly can't be bothered tracking them down just for your benefit. If you think CSA D2 is in any way comparable to USSF D2 you are mistaken.

Not for my benefit at all, your on a discussion forum so part of the discussion may be to back up what your saying if its vague and questionable. You can back it up or not, don't care either way but you obviously can't do so here so your excuse leaves you with no credibility on the issue.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

It really doesn't. I have pointed people to where they can find the information in question. This forum on threads about the CSL desanctioning saga. As for what will happen with this latest D2 initiative given it has been in the public domain since December 2019 it probably wouldn't still be in the works to the extent that it appears to be if the CSA were certain to deny sanctioning. Nick Bontis and Joe Belan were business studies students and varsity soccer players at the University of Western Ontario back in the 1990s. Wouldn't be suprised to find out that they have been working together on something that would be ideal for U-sports varsity level soccer players and NCAA scholarship players in a 2020s context.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[SthMelbRed]

10 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

Not for my benefit at all, your on a discussion forum so part of the discussion may be to back up what your saying if its vague and questionable. You can back it up or not, don't care either way but you obviously can't do so here so your excuse leaves you with no credibility on the issue.

When has this dipshit ever had credibility on any issue?

[Watchmen]

Besides the "national" aspect of it, what is the difference between this proposed league and the regional D3 leagues?  I think I'm struggling to understand what makes this a better option than say putting a team in to a League One BC/West/Prairies.  But maybe I just don't have a good grasp on how the League 1s are operating.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

A PDL type set up with NCAA/U-sports players using it as a summer job works well for relatively long distance bus travel, e.g. Thunder Bay Chill.

In the context of more conventional longer season D3 "semi-pro" with players with regular jobs like L1O or PLSQ anything more than 90 minutes travel to an away game (some would argue 60 mins on that) starts to put a severe strain on the amount of time most players and coaches would be willing/able to commit to their soccer involvement.

That means it only really works well for the GTA and Greater Montreal and is difficult to sustain over the longer term elsewhere after the initial enthusiasm wears off.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[CPLinsider]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

Besides the "national" aspect of it, what is the difference between this proposed league and the regional D3 leagues?  I think I'm struggling to understand what makes this a better option than say putting a team in to a League One BC/West/Prairies.  But maybe I just don't have a good grasp on how the League 1s are operating.

What I understand from my friends in AB is that the teams in this league will need to meet certain finance and facility criteria so that they can survive CPL pro/rel in 5+ years. The teams involved are all established with youth programs to also provide a pathway from grassroots to semi-pro/professional.

[T_Bison]

Maybe it's me but I don't see any real problem with a D2 starting without pro/rel right now.

We know they don't have enough to start out in D1, but D2 gives them an opportunity to start lower with lower standards and build from there. My issue will be if the CPL pulls a LigaMX and blocks pro/rel when it's clear some of the teams could join up.

[Reign]

Every day that passes I have a harder time believing we ever see pro/rel. With the rumoured high expansion fees to get into CPL, owners will do everything to block it. Why would they invest the big bucks just to get relegated to D2. 

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, Reign said:

Every day that passes I have a harder time believing we ever see pro/rel. With the rumoured high expansion fees to get into CPL, owners will do everything to block it. Why would they invest the big bucks just to get relegated to D2. 

I keep saying this. There is a far likelier chance of Europe's top leagues abolishing pro/rel than there is of North American leagues implementing it.

[toontownman]

Can the CSA not force the issue? It comes down to where the CSA sit and how far they are willing to go to make it happen.

A larger question is maybe whether fans want it or are people bothered? I would say the majority of the hardcores (ie. on here) are in favour but most general fans are likely acclimatized to N.American franchise culture. After teams have been imbedded into 5-10 years of CPL without, are fans going to want to see their team risk going down any more than the owners?

If it is something that is of overall benefit to the long term development of the sport in Canada then key people need to be advocating and educating people about it now and why it is important. The longer it is not discussed the harder it will be when it is time, in my opinion.

The CPL and Clanachan have discussed it but only enough to acknowledge it is an option and to give themselves lots of room to maneuver around what is best for them. I have no problem with that. It is just business but it is the CSA's job to ensure what is best for business is done.

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

I keep saying this. There is a far likelier chance of Europe's top leagues abolishing pro/rel than there is of North American leagues implementing it.

I've been following English rugby. They've been moving towards abolishing pro/rel for a while now, and the pandemic has given them an excuse to (slowly) start implementing it. Promotion but no relegation this year from the top flight. And the expectation is that once a key team (Saracen's, one of the league shareholders who was relegated last year) gets back up, they'll implement no more pro/rel period.  And the Pro 14 league (Ireland/Wales/Scotland/Italy) already doesn't have it.

[Dominic94]

I think we’ll be more likely to see teams move up to D1 then get promoted or relegated. Don’t be surprised if Montreal is only D2 for a few years, I’d imagine some groups are waiting out covid or testing things out. As the league grows it will become more appealing to investors.

[toontownman]

15 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

I think we’ll be more likely to see teams move up to D1 then get promoted or relegated. Don’t be surprised if Montreal is only D2 for a few years, I’d imagine some groups are waiting out covid or testing things out. As the league grows it will become more appealing to investors.

That is my gut feeling. It is a springboard league for clubs to prepare them to move into CPL. It however also gives the CSA a pathway to implement Pro/Rel further down the line if they want to.