CPL/L1C - Division II - Pro/Rel discussion

[Cheeta]

Long thought a flatlander "regional elite league" is viable.  You wouldn't need a crazy number of teams to make it work.  Couple in Winnipeg, couple in Edmonchuk and Calgary and one or two in Sask-a-bush and you're good to go.  Can't speak for elsewhere but I promise you there would be interest amongst monied parties in Winnipeg for such a venture, if other regional partners come forward.   

Not sure adding BC into the equation is viable.  They could probably go it alone and the geographical footprint of that sort of venture may be inhibitive.     

[toontownman]

36 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I'm a little surprised at the number of people excited about this. A potentail "Div 2" operating independently of, and to a certain extent in direct competition with, the CPL seems like it could be a bit of a problem.

Having said that, I heard a rumour last year that the "BC League 1" might end up being a "Western Canada League 1".  This would also line up with that pretty well.  I guess we'll see what unfolds.

All seems to tie into what Simon Fudge tweeted about at the tail end of 2019 and maybe it is not really new news other than the CSA might be sanctioning it as D2 rather than it just being a tournament by interested parties with longterm CPL aspirations.

Also completely agree with the bold. It is a potentially dangerous line. I guess it depends a bit on the stance of the CSA and their longterm vision. The last thing we need is for this to be like the NASL when a D2 should have a structured relationship more like a USL to MLS that can introduce pro/rel when the time is right to the CPL. (as @Ansem said). 

I am sure the CPL will be pissed. They would probably like this done on their own terms and the cash that was being made in the "buy in fee" might be harder to obtain with some teams potentially sitting in the D2 league and holding a bit more power until pro/relegation happens. 

I just hope whomever is organizing the D2 league, the CPL and the CSA can exist together for a united vision. 

Sneak peak into the meeting with Clanachan, the CSA and the nameless D2 stakeholders..

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

It's far from clear yet whether CanPL's economic model is actually going to be sustainable as people have finally been acknowledging on here whenever the question of sub-20k salaries is mentioned. Something lower budget revolving around bus travel and student athletes using it as a summer job between May and August in a PDL sort of way is much more likely to hang in there no matter what and grow organically over time. There's a reason why junior hockey dominates numerically over minor league pro teams in Canadian context.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[toontownman]

If CPL fails we are done imo. Certainly in my lifetime.

I don't think some of the accusations being thrown at the CPL are likely unjust and the probably have merit. However I think there is a thin line with trying to force change now before systems get more deeply imbedded and also not bringing the entire house down around us. 

Hot take; There are some people advocating for just change while other are happy to just make noise, highlight themselves for their own agendas without a damn about the consequence. The CPL needs to succeed imo and if it doesn't it will be hard for any investors, fans or the soccer/footballing world to take any future attempts seriously.

From the outside it seems that it will take the CPL to come down off their high horse and both listen then work with the D2 Stakeholders/CSA and Players Union if we want to truly keep the game moving forward as they have dragged it to now.

It is a fragile glass house due to the pandemic and the leagues infancy but we are still at a good point to build strong foundations not cheap rotting ones that are festering out of sight that make it the same problematic system as so many of the other tired leagues and institutions around the world.

 

[MM3/MM2/MM]

4 hours ago, toontownman said:

If CPL fails we are done imo. Certainly in my lifetime.

 

 

Agree, it is this league or nothing for the future of Canadian soccer, MLS only fills a small gap.  Since I started following soccer in the early 70s, I've seen too many leagues and teams fold.

Edited March 2, 2021 by MM3/MM2/MM

[MM3/MM2/MM]

10 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Something lower budget revolving around bus travel and student athletes using it as a summer job between May and August in a PDL sort of way is much more likely to hang in there no matter what and grow organically over time. 

Its time for the effing PDL to leave Canada, there is nothing organic about it.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

CanPL is unlikely to fail outright any more than the CSL did. Two of our three MLS teams developed out of the 86ers and Supra. The economic model might need a bit of a tweak and the supporting cast might change over time but I'd be very confident in HFX Wanderers still being around in some sort of pro level CSA sanctioned league setup 20 years from now. They are the latter day 86ers that provide a reason to believe.

[Bbeto]

13 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

It's far from clear yet whether CanPL's economic model is actually going to be sustainable as people have finally been acknowledging on here whenever the question of sub-20k salaries is mentioned. Something lower budget revolving around bus travel and student athletes using it as a summer job between May and August in a PDL sort of way is much more likely to hang in there no matter what and grow organically over time. There's a reason why junior hockey dominates numerically over minor league pro teams in Canadian context.

 

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

CanPL is unlikely to fail outright any more than the CSL did. Two of our three MLS teams developed out of the 86ers and Supra. The economic model might need a bit of a tweak and the supporting cast might change over time but I'd be very confident in HFX Wanderers still being around in some sort of pro level CSA sanctioned league setup 20 years from now. They are the latter day 86ers that provide a reason to believe.

This is what you are wishing for. None of this will happen. Your words will fail.
National teams are the ones that play the world cup. You want Canada dependent on the US.

[CDNFootballer]

With no hard evidence yet of this "D2" league that's possibly coming next year being a real thing some seem to be getting ahead of themselves. There is however, the new D3 BC League 1 coming about, with TSS Rovers and possibly the Highlanders and a Caps reserve/u23 team being in the mix for that league. Could be some things are being lost in translation and this "D2" league talk recently is actually the next level below CPL in the current setup (Regional D3 as there is no D2 currently), and/or it morphs into a "Western Canada League 1" with teams in BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba with BC League 1 next year.

Don't really see that there would be a big enough difference realistically in a D3 League 1 style league and a possible new D2, or that it would be feasable within the current pandemic climate to succeed, certainly not if they try to be closer to the D1 CPL than the current D3 leagues. Not hoping for it if it happens, but could see it failing if attempted within a year or so.

Edited March 3, 2021 by CDNFootballer

[narduch]

I wonder if this is related

 

[Jonnyboy917]

50 minutes ago, narduch said:

I wonder if this is related

 

 

He posted it: 

 

https://24thminute.substack.com/p/breaking-launch-of-canadian-d2-planned

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

This isn't exactly a breaking story:

https://twitter.com/SimonFudge74/status/1206574833036750848

 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

14 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

...I'd be very confident in HFX Wanderers still being around in some sort of pro level CSA sanctioned league setup 20 years from now. They are the latter day 86ers that provide a reason to believe.

11 hours ago, Bbeto said:

...You want Canada dependent on the US.

A post that bears no correlation to what I had actually just written. I want professional soccer to succeed in Canada and I am open to whatever solution best facilitates that outcome. If the Toronto Maple Leafs, Toronto Raptors and Toronto Blue Jays can play in cross-border leagues, I see no reason why soccer should not pursue cross-border solutions as well for the largest metropolitan marketplaces. FIFA has consistently backed that posture from the 1960s onwards.

Where D2 is concerned I see no reason why a short season format focussing on bus travel and student athletes could not mirror what happens in junior hockey with Western-Ontario-Quebec/Maritimes regional conferences and very much hope that starts to happen from next year onwards to fill the niche previously catered to by PDL. If there is room for something Canada only between that sort of setup and MLS great. Ultimately market forces will determine what's sustainable longterm and what isn't rather than what gets posted in cyberspace.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Dominic94]

Happy we have a D2

[MM3/MM2/MM]

Quote from the Northern Tribune article:

THE LEAGUE WOULD BE CLASSIFIED AS PRO/AM, WITH NCAA AND U SPORT ATHLETES BEING JOINED BY BOTH LOCAL PROSPECTS AND THE OCCASIONALLY OLDER PLAYER THAT NO LONGER CAN AFFORD TO PLAY IN THE CANPL.

Duane Rollins

When I am writing or reading others work, I always look for the judgment words, especially if it is supposed to be "reporting".

[toontownman]

Hoping Rollins as a bit out to lunch on the reporting, it feels off from what came out from the Edmonton AGM. The way he presents it is less than exciting, filled with negativity with a hint of bitterness. If the shoe fits I guess. Honestly if this is months of work into that article as he was complaining about, he better start writing next years articles now. 

 

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

 

[toontownman]

I knew it was only a matter of time before the powers that be buckled and allowed more Canadian NLS teams.

[Big_M]

so would be amateur so players cant be paid other than their expenses paid..and 3 month season..dont see how it would be interesting for plsq teams for example that has a 4-5 month season with way less travel..and interesting that an amateur league is being classified as d2 while d3 leagues can pay players

[narduch]

This is basically a PDL replacement by the sounds of it.

[Ansem]

Hard to see how D2 sanction passes the CSA / CONCACAF test by playing so little...

[SoccMan]

So basically a League built around University/College players seasons . Starts in May when players get back from school and ends just before players leave to go back to school in early August. Basically an under 23 league just like the old PDL . Keeps players between 17 to 23 playing at decent levels combined with University/ College and this new division 2. However, how much better will it be than say Ontario L 1 ? Can’t see here in Ontario a new D 2 league being any stronger. In parts of Canada without Ontario L1 type leagues I see it being very beneficial but here in Ontario and Quebec that already have League 1 type Leagues , I can’t see the difference.

Edited March 3, 2021 by SoccMan

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

PDL could draw into low four figures in London. The Lynx couldn't draw flies in a Toronto context at that level after TFC arrived. L1O can still do its thing in the Golden Horeshoe drawing friends and family. This will work as a spectator event in the same sort of regional Ontario markets junior hockey does. 

[baulderdash77]

I don’t see how this is better than PQSL, L1O, L1BC.  Doesn’t seem like a D2 league to me.  Its just trying to replicate the PDL in Canada which is just a D3/D4 thing anyways. Seems like a waste of time.

L1O and PQSL are doing fine and seem to be open leagues more or less.

Why not just make a D3 Prairies and be done with building out our D3 pyramid.

 

[baulderdash77]

Just to add- we don’t need any USL / NASL toxic BS confusion in Canada.  We already have the MLS and CanPL parallel situation.

We just got rid of the toxic Ottawa situation and upgraded to a better deal with Atletico Ottawa.

For some reason this thing just brings out a CSL vibe- I imagine that crowd is going to show up in the “East” division some way because we already know they don’t like to play by the standard rules.