General Discussion on CMNT

[GasPed]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

For me Netherlands probably deserve a World Cup, the only team that I feel has really deserved it in more than one generation and has never won.

Portugal don't have quite the depth. But have had world class top players, from Eusebio to Cristiano. Japan is missing pieces too, but has never had truly world class players, say top 20 consistently in Ballon d'Or. They had Nakata, perhaps unfairly forgotten, and Nakamura. Certainly not at that world-beating level. Maybe I am biased, after they fell apart vs. Belgium in Russia 2019, they lacked CBs, keeping, physicality overall, and leadership on the pitch.

The only Asian players on the shortlist for this Ballon d'Or is Kim Min-Jae.

They've never gotten past the round of 16 at a World Cup, even S Korea has done better. I would say they are comparable to Mexico in these last 3 decades. 

Am I wrong that some here are touting Japan as a way of softening our loss to them?

I don't think you're entirely wrong, but I do think you're probably underestimating Japan - or at least their current form.  If ever they had a "golden generation", this is probably it.  No, there are no true world class stars (although Mitoma is getting closer to that level), but the overall level of talent and depth is pretty remarkable - every one of their starting outfield players and many of their backups start for teams in the Big 5, and even their backups who aren't in the Big 5 start for quality teams (e.g. Maeda, Furuhashi, Hatate all start for Celtic but are backups for Japan). 

The traditional weakness at CB is still sort of there but guys like Tomiyasu (Arsenal starter), Itakura (Gladbach starter) and Taniguchi (Al Rayyan starter), are all quality and frankly a lot better than the guys we have on offer.   A guy like Koki Machida (starting CB for Union SG) would surely start for us - but he can't even get on the pitch for Japan (though he did play against us).

Combine all of that with a gameplan that capitalizes on their strengths and minimizes their weaknesses, a tenacious energy, and more physicality than they've had in the past - and they really are a formidable team.  I personally think they are a top 10 team based on their current form (I don't think anyone in Germany would dispute that 😉), and while they have some weaknesses (e.g. set pieces, GK) they aren't glaring.  They do lack real stars, and that's likely enough to keep them from being true World Cup contenders.  However, there are rumours that they have young talent in their development pipeline, so who knows what the future holds for them?

[costarg]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

For me Netherlands probably deserve a World Cup, the only team that I feel has really deserved it in more than one generation and has never won.

Portugal don't have quite the depth. But have had world class top players, from Eusebio to Cristiano. Japan is missing pieces too, but has never had truly world class players, say top 20 consistently in Ballon d'Or. They had Nakata, perhaps unfairly forgotten, and Nakamura. Certainly not at that world-beating level. Maybe I am biased, after they fell apart vs. Belgium in Russia 2019, they lacked CBs, keeping, physicality overall, and leadership on the pitch.

The only Asian players on the shortlist for this Ballon d'Or is Kim Min-Jae.

They've never gotten past the round of 16 at a World Cup, even S Korea has done better. I would say they are comparable to Mexico in these last 3 decades. 

Am I wrong that some here are touting Japan as a way of softening our loss to them?

Aren't the Netherlands still facing the same recurring infighting issues that's been plaguing them for the past 25 years or so?  If it's not a star vs the coach, its one group of players vs another.  Seems like there is always something going on in that dressing room.  Loads of talent, but I feel they won't win anything until they can get over their fragile egos. 

[gigi riva]

9 hours ago, Obinna said:

They need to eventually fix this if they want to get better. 

I hope they dont and get blasted the first time they play outside of the USA and I hope it is us that do it 

[gigi riva]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

Aren't the Netherlands still facing the same recurring infighting issues that's been plaguing them for the past 25 years or so?  If it's not a star vs the coach, its one group of players vs another.  Seems like there is always something going on in that dressing room.  Loads of talent, but I feel they won't win anything until they can get over their fragile egos. 

The Netherlands are a weird Footballing nation . First of all for there size and Population they have had amazing succcess , But they are victims of there own arrogance and unfortunatley they have never learnt from it with the exception of Euro 88 . I am not Dutch so I do not know there mentallity but I think they need a little bit of humility

[Kent]

What does "World Class" mean? That's easy. It means "A team/player that is on a list that the person who said 'World Class' has in mind." Nothing more, nothing less.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, gigi riva said:

I hope they dont and get blasted the first time they play outside of the USA and I hope it is us that do it 

Like Gold Cup it seems like NL finals will perpetually be hosted in the USA, so unless we get drawn with them in the group stage or unless it's a friendly they won't be coming north of the border.

[gigi riva]

32 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Like Gold Cup it seems like NL finals will perpetually be hosted in the USA, so unless we get drawn with them in the group stage or unless it's a friendly they won't be coming north of the border.

I know you are right 

[DrunkOffPunch]

On 10/17/2023 at 9:37 AM, Obinna said:

They need to eventually fix this if they want to get better. 

No real point for this cycle. Copa America and WC both in the US.

[Obinna]

46 minutes ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

No real point for this cycle. Copa America and WC both in the US.

That's why I said "eventually". I am aware the USA is joint-hosting the WC and hosting Copa America.

Question though - would they finagle the knockout venues to make sure USA plays WC knockouts in the USA? Mexico are hosting some knockout games too, right? What if they are drawn together like in 2002? This is a FIFA event, not a CONCACAF one, where the USA are given preferential hosting privileges. I'd be curious to see how far the special treatment goes for the USA.

[Shway]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

That's why I said "eventually". I am aware the USA is joint-hosting the WC and hosting Copa America.

Cute. 

We got to find another word. Sharing 25% of the games isn't joint hosting in my opinion. It's like when your mom says "come on, you've had the whole bag can't you give your brother some... fine here"

[narduch]

11 minutes ago, Shway said:

Cute. 

We got to find another word. Sharing 25% of the games isn't joint hosting in my opinion. It's like when your mom says "come on, you've had the whole bag can't you give your brother some... fine here"

The only thing we really gained was auto qualification 

[Obinna]

Agreed fellas. And it's pretty lame that if we advance from the group stage we will then be playing away matches. Pretty lame.

[DrunkOffPunch]

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

That's why I said "eventually". I am aware the USA is joint-hosting the WC and hosting Copa America.

Question though - would they finagle the knockout venues to make sure USA plays WC knockouts in the USA? Mexico are hosting some knockout games too, right? What if they are drawn together like in 2002? This is a FIFA event, not a CONCACAF one, where the USA are given preferential hosting privileges. I'd be curious to see how far the special treatment goes for the USA.

I think they do. So if group A/B play their group games in Mexico, they’ll probably play their first ko games in Mexico. I’d assume that’s how they would do it. I wouldn’t call that preferential treatment though. That’s exactly what they did when Korea/Japan hosted together. I mean imagine if Canada was hosting ko games. Wouldn’t Canadian fans be pissed if their first ko game wasn’t in Canada? 

[Obinna]

19 minutes ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

I think they do. So if group A/B play their group games in Mexico, they’ll probably play their first ko games in Mexico. I’d assume that’s how they would do it. I wouldn’t call that preferential treatment though. That’s exactly what they did when Korea/Japan hosted together. I mean imagine if Canada was hosting ko games. Wouldn’t Canadian fans be pissed if their first ko game wasn’t in Canada? 

I get what you're saying, but since Mexico and USA will get to play their knock out games at home and Canada won't, that's clearly treating one host differently than the other two. If Canada does advance it will be pretty awkward to see them play as the away side for a tournament they are so-called hosting.

[DrunkOffPunch]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

I get what you're saying, but since Mexico and USA will get to play their knock out games at home and Canada won't, that's clearly treating one host differently than the other two. If Canada does advance it will be pretty awkward to see them play as the away side for a tournament they are so-called hosting.

Honestly, I’d be happy you’re getting any. If not for FIFA corruption, the US probably gets the ‘22 solo bid. US we’re already favorites to get the ‘26 bid. Mexico and Canada didn’t need to be added. Canada doesn’t even currently have a stadium that fits FIFA requirements for ko rounds. 
 

FWIW, I would have loved for Canada to have gotten some ko games. 

[costarg]

8 hours ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Honestly, I’d be happy you’re getting any. If not for FIFA corruption, the US probably gets the ‘22 solo bid. US we’re already favorites to get the ‘26 bid. Mexico and Canada didn’t need to be added. Canada doesn’t even currently have a stadium that fits FIFA requirements for ko rounds. 
 

FWIW, I would have loved for Canada to have gotten some ko games. 

Pretty fair assessment. Given the stadium situation and state of CSA, we're indeed lucky. 

We got a date with the hottest girl in school, we can't whine and complain that we don't have a fancy car and reservations at the best restaurant that we could't afford anyway.

[Obinna]

9 hours ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

Honestly, I’d be happy you’re getting any. If not for FIFA corruption, the US probably gets the ‘22 solo bid. US we’re already favorites to get the ‘26 bid. Mexico and Canada didn’t need to be added. Canada doesn’t even currently have a stadium that fits FIFA requirements for ko rounds. 
 

FWIW, I would have loved for Canada to have gotten some ko games. 

I think it goes without saying we are all very happy that we are getting any games at all - but nonetheless it would be an unprescedented and awkward situtation. Canada's stadium situation is definitely pathetic - a highly developed country of 40M people should do better.

I am surprised that BC Place wouldn't meet the criteria (turf the issue?) given it hosted the final of the 2015 WWC, but that just speaks to my comment above. We should have done whatever was needed to upgrade the stadium to meet the requirements. Instead, Canada as usual seems content to just be invited to the party rather than making a splash at it. 

And don't get me started on the BMO field "expansion".....

[DrunkOffPunch]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

I think it goes without saying we are all very happy that we are getting any games at all - but nonetheless it would be an unprescedented and awkward situtation. Canada's stadium situation is definitely pathetic - a highly developed country of 40M people should do better.

I am surprised that BC Place wouldn't meet the criteria (turf the issue?) given it hosted the final of the 2015 WWC, but that just speaks to my comment above. We should have done whatever was needed to upgrade the stadium to meet the requirements. Instead, Canada as usual seems content to just be invited to the party rather than making a splash at it. 

And don't get me started on the BMO field "expansion".....

The turf has to be changed to grass regardless. Bigger requirement is 60k minimum seating. I know jack about stadiums and even less about Canadian stadiums. Does the dome create an issue in adding seats? I know in some NFL stadiums would need to remove seats next to the corners. Would that be an issue in Canadian stadiums? That’s not to say it would be an insurmountable obstacle. Commonwealth could easily meet that criteria. 
 

Part of me thinks Canada’s original ‘26 bid to host was more of a way to join the US’ bid. 80k needed for opening games and finals. With the expanded tournament Canada doesn’t have anywhere near the infrastructure for that currently. Also no oil barons to bankroll the project and I’m pretty sure slave labor is illegal up north. Same goes for Mexico. No way they were going to be the first country to host 3x. I feel for ya, but I think this was the CSA’s (or whoever is in charge) plan all along. Get some games and use added interest in soccer to hopefully create more exposure for the CPL and Canadian MLS teams.

[InglewoodJack]

I saw Priestman hinted at more CANWNT games being announced- would this imply were going to get men’s games too? 

[Obinna]

19 minutes ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

The turf has to be changed to grass regardless. Bigger requirement is 60k minimum seating. I know jack about stadiums and even less about Canadian stadiums. Does the dome create an issue in adding seats? I know in some NFL stadiums would need to remove seats next to the corners. Would that be an issue in Canadian stadiums? That’s not to say it would be an insurmountable obstacle. Commonwealth could easily meet that criteria. 
 

Part of me thinks Canada’s original ‘26 bid to host was more of a way to join the US’ bid. 80k needed for opening games and finals. With the expanded tournament Canada doesn’t have anywhere near the infrastructure for that currently. Also no oil barons to bankroll the project and I’m pretty sure slave labor is illegal up north. Same goes for Mexico. No way they were going to be the first country to host 3x. I feel for ya, but I think this was the CSA’s (or whoever is in charge) plan all along. Get some games and use added interest in soccer to hopefully create more exposure for the CPL and Canadian MLS teams.

Well that is certainly an arbitraty requirement they could have looked past had the wanted to, especially considering BC place is only 6k short. I see that BC Place is listed at 54k but is expandable to 65k for concerts.

Commonwealth is 56k but Edmonton dropped out.

Azteca is the only Mexican host stadium with minimum 60k, so I guess that will be the only knockout venue in Mexico.

As for the CSA plan, part of that should have been building an infrastructure legacy. Beats me what form that would take, but at minimum they could have permanently upgraded BMO to 40k or more. I know it's not the CSA's stadium to make that call, but as a country we should have made this happen instead of this embaressment temporary seating which will be the joke of the tournament. Toronto and Canada deserve better.

As for CPL maybe they/we could have used this World Cup opportunity to beef up facilities in the GTA and/or Lower Mainland. World Cup teams need a place to train, so maybe we could have built some elite facilites and left them to the CPL teams as part of the World Cup 2026 legacy, be it training fields or small stadiums. The Aspire Academy training facilities used for the World Cup in Qatar would be an improvement over York Lions Stadium, for example.

As things are looking, the World Cup is going to come and go and Canada is not going to be in any better shape. The Canadian MLS teams won't be any better or worse off and I haven't seen/heard any ways in which the CPL teams will benefit. 

[Kadenge]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

I saw Priestman hinted at more CANWNT games being announced- would this imply were going to get men’s games too? 

Yup. 2 games vs Jamaica  🙂

[red card]

7 hours ago, Obinna said:

Well that is certainly an arbitraty requirement they could have looked past had the wanted to, especially considering BC place is only 6k short. I see that BC Place is listed at 54k but is expandable to 65k for concerts.

Commonwealth is 56k but Edmonton dropped out.

Azteca is the only Mexican host stadium with minimum 60k, so I guess that will be the only knockout venue in Mexico.

As for the CSA plan, part of that should have been building an infrastructure legacy. Beats me what form that would take, but at minimum they could have permanently upgraded BMO to 40k or more. I know it's not the CSA's stadium to make that call, but as a country we should have made this happen instead of this embaressment temporary seating which will be the joke of the tournament. Toronto and Canada deserve better.

As for CPL maybe they/we could have used this World Cup opportunity to beef up facilities in the GTA and/or Lower Mainland. World Cup teams need a place to train, so maybe we could have built some elite facilites and left them to the CPL teams as part of the World Cup 2026 legacy, be it training fields or small stadiums. The Aspire Academy training facilities used for the World Cup in Qatar would be an improvement over York Lions Stadium, for example.

As things are looking, the World Cup is going to come and go and Canada is not going to be in any better shape. The Canadian MLS teams won't be any better or worse off and I haven't seen/heard any ways in which the CPL teams will benefit. 

Recent AFTN podcast said Vancouver would be required to have 4 training faciliities. They speculated it would be the Caps UBC facility, a place in Burnaby (not clear if it was Swanguard) and another location that slips my mind. VFC's stadium is also in mix and they assumed it would need a change to a grass pitch.

If 4 are needed for Toronto, it would include TFC Downsview & Ontario Soccer Centre. Then, it would depend if Woodbine is ready, upgrades to wherever York is playing and/or wherever Forge/Sigma use for training other than THF.

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by red card

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, red card said:

Recent AFTN podcast said Vancouver would be required to have 4 training faciliities. They speculated it would be the Caps UBC facility, a place in Burnaby (not clear if it was Swanguard) and another location that slips my mind. VFC's stadium is also in mix and they assumed it would need a change to a grass pitch.

If 4 are needed for Toronto, it would include TFC Downsview & Ontario Soccer Centre. Then, it would depend if Woodbine is ready, upgrades to wherever York is playing and/or wherever Forge/Sigma use for training other than THF.

 

Thanks for that. IF a few CPL teams could get significant upgrades that would be fantastic. Hopefully we don't let the opportunity pass us by!

[narduch]

43 minutes ago, red card said:

Recent AFTN podcast said Vancouver would be required to have 4 training faciliities. They speculated it would be the Caps UBC facility, a place in Burnaby (not clear if it was Swanguard) and another location that slips my mind. VFC's stadium is also in mix and they assumed it would need a change to a grass pitch.

If 4 are needed for Toronto, it would include TFC Downsview & Ontario Soccer Centre. Then, it would depend if Woodbine is ready, upgrades to wherever York is playing and/or wherever Forge/Sigma use for training other than THF.

 

I believe the City of Toronto already committed to 2 locations. I suspect that is part of the reason the York United owner threw in the keys. They didn't get the government funding for Woodbine they were hoping for.

Edited October 20, 2023 by narduch

[narduch]

City of Toronto's 2 training faciliities they are funding are Centennial Park (where the Lynx used to play) and Sunnybrook Park (close to the hospital with the same name and near the new LRT line that will hopefully one day actually open).

https://www.toronto.com/news/fifa-training-facilities-being-considered-for-centennial-sunnybrook-parks/article_52339508-6d1d-5c5b-aabc-368085ef6a4f.html?

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by narduch