General Discussion on CMNT

[frmr]

51 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Herdman is a cheap car salesman, come on asked double if they’re sure ? Come on. I bet it was to Davies please come and play please we need you ! We need to win this Gold Cup. 

herdman is fighting to keep it job. Period, he needs to prove that he can hack it vs better teams. All he has done is beat Haiti who are a mess and Suriname (who basically had a new team who never played with each other before). He’s only beat the states Once! 
Herdman’s ego is the size of a house. 

Have you ever heard the saying “better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt”? Just curious. 

[Shortdutchcanuck]

2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Herdman is a cheap car salesman, come on asked double if they’re sure ? Come on. I bet it was to Davies please come and play please we need you ! We need to win this Gold Cup. 

herdman is fighting to keep it job. Period, he needs to prove that he can hack it vs better teams. All he has done is beat Haiti who are a mess and Suriname (who basically had a new team who never played with each other before). He’s only beat the states Once! 
Herdman’s ego is the size of a house. 

So you're saying that like the rest of us you're still on the fence about Herdman but you're keeping an open mind?

[Kent]

I guarantee everyone here that if we win our quarter final match, and even if we beat Mexico in the semi finals, SpecialK will not say anything good about Herdman. He will either be silent/absent, or he will be on here before our first game in the Oct saying if Canada lose Herdman should be fired. Like that is the default after a hire, threaten firing before every single game, regardless of how many wins come.

[MM3/MM2/MM]

5 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Herdman’s ego is the size of a house. 

Have you ever seen Zambrano's it was so huge parts of are still hanging around Canada's borders.

When Zambrano was hired I never expected him to last more then 18 months.

[The Real Marc]

Yeah but Octavio plays futbol and that makes people weak in the knees.

[Shway]

How anyone can complain about Herdman at this point is beyond reason.

I was once in that camp, but have changed that tune drastically due to what I’ve seen.

He’s brought on more coaches for help, and has added a game day earpiece to receive extra help. We’ve changed/tested our formation several times, landing on what I’ve been banging the drum for in the 352 - as I still think it suits our crop of players. We had an 8 game win streak snapped against a USMNT that cleaaaarrrly didn’t deserve that win.

 If there’s any talk of a firing, let it be after WCQ.

[dyslexic nam]

22 minutes ago, Shway said:

How anyone can complain about Herdman at this point is beyond reason.

For the stubborn holdouts, I am pretty sure reason has little to do with it.  

[harrycoyster]

12 minutes ago, Shway said:

How anyone can complain about Herdman at this point is beyond reason.

I was once in that camp, but have changed that tune drastically due to what I’ve seen.

He’s brought on more coaches for help, and has added a game day earpiece to receive extra help. We’ve changed/tested our formation several times, landing on what I’ve been banging the drum for in the 352 - as I still think it suits our crop of players. We had an 8 game win streak snapped against a USMNT that cleaaaarrrly didn’t deserve that win.

 If there’s any talk of a firing, let it be after WCQ.

I agree, but I'm not willing to give Herdman more than the first WCQ window. Needs 4 points or better to keep the job. 

 

Lots of framing the US game as 'we deserved the win'...we got out xGed by a US team that was playing a new formation because their top six wingers weren't available. This is a very beatable US roster and we couldn't take advantage. I don't view the lost as a huge mark against Herdman, but it damn sure shouldn't be an argument for him. 

[TOcanadafan]

The one comment I heard from multiple USMNT analysts is that Herdman made necessary in-game tactical decisions that helped Canada take control of the game, while Berhalter had no answer.  He at least gets some props for that.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Glad folks enjoyed the grade-school insult from the 70s I used in that post (dipshit), you sure had fun playing with it. 

BTW, I include myself as a dipshit fan on an irrelevant soccer forum, would not have it any other way.

To the important points:

The CMNT has had problems for decades getting players committed, because it has been run poorly. This used to mean they would not even commit to the programme at all. So we've improved, but still. We have not shown respect for players' careers, we have scheduled poorly and done lousy travel arrangements, we have demanded commitments that have hurt them at the clubs they play for. We have consistently found players opting out, even the last WC qualifiers Arfield and maybe some other A team players did so. 

This GC is an example. The pros do not outweigh the cons, beating Martinique and Haiti? Losing to a US "B" team? What have we learnt from that? Even if we beat Costa Rica and make semis, the lessons will only be relative. 

I am glad we have some players who are not here, like Kennedy, because they realised being in B2 that they'd be missing league fixtures come the serious games. Maybe as much as 8-10 league fixtures. They simply vetoed the Herdman plan and they were right to do so, they were being more responsible towards the program than the coach himself. 

If you do not show you care about your players, take full responsibility for their well-being, and respect such a basic concept as medical information (I have never heard a professional club coach run off at the mouth about a player's injuries, not in 35 years of paying attention to such things, not even in the 90s), you are going to find that the opting out will continue. No player is weak-minded enough to sacrifice their career for the maniacal schemes of a Dr. Strangelove at the helm. A player and his support group and agent know when they are being treated like a handy-wipe.

Interesting, too, there is no other spokesperson for the team, no team manager or press person from the CSA. So Herdman is left to spin it in his favour, but just as easily find it spinning out of control. The credit he has seemed to garner could dry up as quickly as it's been put together. 

I see no real benefit of sacrificing the integrity of our WC qualifying campaign by unnecessarily forcing players for this competition. We are hardly learning anything about the player pool, apart from maybe that Crepeau can be relied upon and that Tajon is more than an Olympic qualifier player. 

 

 

[Free kick]

Except for the part:  “The CMNT has had problems for decades getting players committed, because it has been run poorly”. 
 

other than that part.  I concur completely.   The reasons the CMNT has had problems getting players to committ is because the results were not there and those players had other passports in their pockets.  And those passports were from countries whose teams were winning more often.  
 

i was actually looking forward to seeing something like a B, B+ or an A minus team for this tournament.   It might have allowed Herdman to uncover new talent like we did with Tajon during the OQT. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Free kick

[CanadaFan123]

Just off the top of my head.. what we've learned from the GC so far:

- Buchanan is a great option at LWB/RWB;

- Miller is starter material on the backline;

- Eustaquio is our set piece taker going forward and 3rd best player;

- Crepeau is a solid option in net and comfortably #2; and

- We can control games against teams not named Suriname and Haiti.

 

The pros outweigh the cons. Of course it was the right call to bring the best squad we could. Davies rolled his ankle in training and Akinola suffered a freak injury. It happens. If not playing for Canada both things could have happened during the same week with their club teams.

We are in a better position going into WCQ. Period.

 

[Gian-Luca]

Akinola’s injury should not factor in to any debate about whether we should have brought our best players unless someone is going to argue that once he committed to our program we should have immediately ignored him and brought Bair or Brym instead and just hope that Ayo’s club chemistry with Oso and Laryea would be enough to get him acclimated with the full team. 

[CanadaFan123]

1 minute ago, Gian-Luca said:

Akinola’s injury should not factor in to any debate about whether we should have brought our best players unless someone is going to argue that once he committed to our program we should have immediately ignored him and brought Bair or Brym instead and just hope that Ayo’s club chemistry with Oso and Laryea would be enough to get him acclimated with the full team. 

Clearly we should have dropped Larin and thrown him in as a starter in the Octagon alongside David.

[Free kick]

9 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Akinola’s injury should not factor in to any debate about whether we should have brought our best players unless someone is going to argue that once he committed to our program we should have immediately ignored him and brought Bair or Brym instead and just hope that Ayo’s club chemistry with Oso and Laryea would be enough to get him acclimated with the full team. 

Yes.  Ayo was the exception.  He needed to be there. Same could be said for the other MLS players.  
where i drew the line is for the players who play for the Big clubs in Europe (Bayern).  Or the near big clubs (eg.; Lille). 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Free kick

[El Hombre]

13 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I see no real benefit of sacrificing the integrity of our WC qualifying campaign by unnecessarily forcing players for this competition.

Is it on the record that he "unnecessarily forced players for this competition"?  I haven't seen any evidence of that.  In fact, I've seen the opposite.

13 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

We are hardly learning anything about the player pool, apart from maybe that Crepeau can be relied upon and that Tajon is more than an Olympic qualifier player.

I find that surprising for someone who considered Miller "weak" against Haiti but then "sharp" against the US.  Might lead one to think that you learned something about him.  Maybe that he is a solid defensive optionshould we run into injuries now that he has played with the rest of the back line .

Also:

- Eustaquio has some offensive prowess and maybe should be pushed forward a bit but he needs more support in the middle.
- The entire back line needs to work on concentration from minute 1, particularly those in the wingback role.
- Still need to work on cutting through when the opposition is lying deep.
- Cavallini/Larin partnership needs some work before its ready for primetime.
- Johnston is solid defensively but moderately suspect going forward.
- Pasher, despite solid club form, needs a few more reps with the team before he understands his role.

I'm sure there's more.

[El Hombre]

52 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

This GC is an example. The pros do not outweigh the cons, beating Martinique and Haiti? Losing to a US "B" team? What have we learnt from that? Even if we beat Costa Rica and make semis, the lessons will only be relative.

Also, I thought losing to the US team was the plan all along?  That way they are over-confident come September.  I can only assume that that's why we gifted them the early goal.  😎

[narduch]

Personally think we are over-analyzing the Canada v. USA game in terms of take aways for our September rematch.

The squads won't be the same for either side.

After about 30 minutes the US decided to basically bunker.

We actually need to be cautious and plan ahead to ensure we don't have a repeat of November 2019.

[sebdeserio]

Another takeaway is the increasingly obvious #10 shaped hole in our attack. Hoilett and Osorio can play there but it isn't ideal.

[Unnamed Trialist]

57 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Is it on the record that he "unnecessarily forced players for this competition"?  I haven't seen any evidence of that.  In fact, I've seen the opposite.

I find that surprising for someone who considered Miller "weak" against Haiti but then "sharp" against the US.  Might lead one to think that you learned something about him.  Maybe that he is a solid defensive optionshould we run into injuries now that he has played with the rest of the back line .

Also:

- Eustaquio has some offensive prowess and maybe should be pushed forward a bit but he needs more support in the middle.
- The entire back line needs to work on concentration from minute 1, particularly those in the wingback role.
- Still need to work on cutting through when the opposition is lying deep.
- Cavallini/Larin partnership needs some work before its ready for primetime.
- Johnston is solid defensively but moderately suspect going forward.
- Pasher, despite solid club form, needs a few more reps with the team before he understands his role.

I'm sure there's more.

I hope you pass on everything you learnt to Herdman, I doubt he's seen as much as you have.

I'm surprised you haven't said anything about Ayo needing to go into games with more overall joint strength. 

 

[Kadenge]

If anyone is still concerned about Herdman's CV take a look at Theodore Whitmore. He's done a pretty good job with Jamaica and he  did not have high level coaching experience before his appointment.  That early goal was unacceptable and should never happen (it looked like the US practiced that play btw) but the positive tactical shift in game was something Herdman has not handled well before and that's a big plus going forward. I do think the hiring of Remko Bicenti is paying dividends. We may not have deserved a win but we did deserve a tie.

[El Hombre]

6 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I hope you pass on everything you learnt to Herdman, I doubt he's seen as much as you have.

I'm surprised you haven't said anything about Ayo needing to go into games with more overall joint strength. 

 

Actually, a good percentage of what I wrote was based on your observations after the Haiti and US games.  So, I didn't learn anything from the games myself, but from reading your recaps.

[RS]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

We are hardly learning anything about the player pool, apart from maybe that Crepeau can be relied upon and that Tajon is more than an Olympic qualifier player. 

 

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Just off the top of my head.. what we've learned from the GC so far:

- Buchanan is a great option at LWB/RWB;

- Miller is starter material on the backline;

- Eustaquio is our set piece taker going forward and 3rd best player;

- Crepeau is a solid option in net and comfortably #2; and

- We can control games against teams not named Suriname and Haiti.

 

1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

I find that surprising for someone who considered Miller "weak" against Haiti but then "sharp" against the US.  Might lead one to think that you learned something about him.  Maybe that he is a solid defensive optionshould we run into injuries now that he has played with the rest of the back line .

Also:

- Eustaquio has some offensive prowess and maybe should be pushed forward a bit but he needs more support in the middle.
- The entire back line needs to work on concentration from minute 1, particularly those in the wingback role.
- Still need to work on cutting through when the opposition is lying deep.
- Cavallini/Larin partnership needs some work before its ready for primetime.
- Johnston is solid defensively but moderately suspect going forward.
- Pasher, despite solid club form, needs a few more reps with the team before he understands his role.

I'm sure there's more.

 

37 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

Another takeaway is the increasingly obvious #10 shaped hole in our attack. Hoilett and Osorio can play there but it isn't ideal.

 

Yeah, but if you ignore all of those things, we've learned absolutely nothing!

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, El Hombre said:

Actually, a good percentage of what I wrote was based on your observations after the Haiti and US games.  So, I didn't learn anything from the games myself, but from reading your recaps.

So you did get off on my mental masturbation, I was so worried you didn't care.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Shway said:

How anyone can complain about Herdman at this point is beyond reason.

I was once in that camp, but have changed that tune drastically due to what I’ve seen.

He’s brought on more coaches for help, and has added a game day earpiece to receive extra help. We’ve changed/tested our formation several times, landing on what I’ve been banging the drum for in the 352 - as I still think it suits our crop of players. We had an 8 game win streak snapped against a USMNT that cleaaaarrrly didn’t deserve that win.

 If there’s any talk of a firing, let it be after WCQ.

Like you I am also impressed by our 8-game win streak against minnows and teams below us in the ranking, and am likewise comforted by us not winning but maybe almost tying a team that is higher than us. That is certainly the sort of benchmark all professionals should be subject to.