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General Discussion on CMNT


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52 minutes ago, rkomar said:

Maybe what's different these days is that if a player grabs your eye, you can bring up his stats and video from previous international and league games and get a deeper view of his abilities.  You don't have to judge solely on what you see in the tournament, nor do you have to wait until future matches to see more.  You can probably find out as much as if you were paying attention to him over the past few years.

I guess the Whitecaps brass didn't get that memo when they decided to sign Stefan Marinovic following his shooting gallery heroics in goal for NZ at the Confderations Cup.  

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Where do you find a list of all historical CANMNT individual statistics (caps, goals, assists, etc.). I remember it being on the Canada Soccer website but can't find it there anymore nor any other google search. Please and thanks.

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7 hours ago, afun said:

Where do you find a list of all historical CANMNT individual statistics (caps, goals, assists, etc.). I remember it being on the Canada Soccer website but can't find it there anymore nor any other google search. Please and thanks.

I think I just found the stats on Wikipedia in the past. 

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8 hours ago, afun said:

Where do you find a list of all historical CANMNT individual statistics (caps, goals, assists, etc.). I remember it being on the Canada Soccer website but can't find it there anymore nor any other google search. Please and thanks.

https://issuu.com/canadasoccer/docs/20191231_canada_records_results Every year the csa releases a new document. It has every stat you can imagine. 

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I'm nowhere near a pro on football tactics, but could this 4-4-2 (diamond but could be classic as well) be an interesting option during the octo? It might help with our defense (even more if Piette takes Eustaquio's position) while preserving some attacking punch.

My concern would be David and Larin might step on each other's feet, maybe Hoilett instead of Larin. Dunno.

lineup.png

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1 hour ago, flip said:

I'm nowhere near a pro on football tactics, but could this 4-4-2 (diamond but could be classic as well) be an interesting option during the octo? It might help with our defense (even more if Piette takes Eustaquio's position) while preserving some attacking punch.

My concern would be David and Larin might step on each other's feet, maybe Hoilett instead of Larin. Dunno.

lineup.png

I'd have Hutchinson in there ahead of Arfield. Also, if it's going to be a back four I'd take Adekugbe over Miller in the LB role.

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4 hours ago, flip said:

I'm nowhere near a pro on football tactics, but could this 4-4-2 (diamond but could be classic as well) be an interesting option during the octo? It might help with our defense (even more if Piette takes Eustaquio's position) while preserving some attacking punch.

My concern would be David and Larin might step on each other's feet, maybe Hoilett instead of Larin. Dunno.

lineup.png

Similar to what we played when we beat US at home in November 19.  But we played a box and not a diamond

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6 hours ago, flip said:

I'm nowhere near a pro on football tactics, but could this 4-4-2 (diamond but could be classic as well) be an interesting option during the octo? It might help with our defense (even more if Piette takes Eustaquio's position) while preserving some attacking punch.

My concern would be David and Larin might step on each other's feet, maybe Hoilett instead of Larin. Dunno.

lineup.png

4-4-2 is looking and sounding better and better.  As much as the wingback role suits guys like Davies, Laryea and Tajon, I feel we're suffering everywhere else, the guys just aren't gelling and we're fielding an extra CB just to reinforce, but weakening the field by doing so.

Only change I'd make to your 11 is swap Laryea for Johnston if we're playing a much better opponent like Mexico.  Aaaaaand maybe go to more of a 4-5-1 vs the big boys, by throwing in Hutch, Arfield and Eustaquio in the middle with only David up top, supported by Davies and Tajon on the wings.  Good luck defending that! 

We could literally play hoofball all night long staying deep and just send it up for them to chase and wreak havoc.  I can't sit still just thinking about that 11!

Edited by costarg
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12 hours ago, flip said:

could this 4-4-2 (diamond but could be classic as well) be an interesting option during the octo?

My oversimplified two cents on some tactics in last 20 years:

 

The obvious problem is, of course, why I saw 442  decline in the mid 00s.

Teams like Mourinho's Chelsea brought the 433/451 (and 4231 or 4141) and showed it could be flexibly potent in attack while keeping enough people in the centre of the park to overrun the CM 2 in the various 442s.  

It is a massive amount of work for Arfield and Eustaquio in that scenario if the opposition has any time to pick passes or has decent ball carriers through the middle.  

 

More recently people figured out that even in 433, it was revolving around a big central striker and defences hated it if you somehow get two strikers up there again.  So there was attempt to keep 3 in the centre in of the park but abandon the double line on the wings.  Ie. wingbacks instead of fullbacks and wingers/wide midfielders.  They figured out that you could cover the wings of you had 3 mobile and smart centre backs.  And it gave you default numbers in central defence again. So we saw managers like Conte go 352. And a lot followed. 

 

For me, the question is have we not figured out the 352 properly - yet? Or do we not have the CBs to be able to play it.   I think our talent pool obviously matches up very well with that formation in the rest of the park. 

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3 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

My oversimplified two cents on some tactics in last 20 years:

 

The obvious problem is, of course, why I saw 442  decline in the mid 00s.

Teams like Mourinho's Chelsea brought the 433/451 (and 4231 or 4141) and showed it could be flexibly potent in attack while keeping enough people in the centre of the park to overrun the CM 2 in the various 442s.  

It is a massive amount of work for Arfield and Eustaquio in that scenario if the opposition has any time to pick passes or has decent ball carriers through the middle.  

 

More recently people figured out that even in 433, it was revolving around a big central striker and defences hated it if you somehow get two strikers up there again.  So there was attempt to keep 3 in the centre in of the park but abandon the double line on the wings.  Ie. wingbacks instead of fullbacks and wingers/wide midfielders.  They figured out that you could cover the wings of you had 3 mobile and smart centre backs.  And it gave you default numbers in central defence again. So we saw managers like Conte go 352. And a lot followed. 

 

For me, the question is have we not figured out the 352 properly - yet? Or do we not have the CBs to be able to play it.   I think our talent pool obviously matches up very well with that formation in the rest of the park. 

I think our CB’s are fine in a 3-5-2. It’s just that we’re missing Kennedy right now, and we have been playing Johnston at RWB sometimes instead of RCB. I prefer something like this with our 3-5-2/3-4-1-2

 

David - Larin

Osorio (or Arfield/Hutch/Hoilett)

Davies - Eustaquio - Piette (or Hutch) - Buchanan

Kennedy - Henry - Johnston

Borjan

 

This can easily shift to 4 at the back by moving Buchanan or Davies up and Johnston at RB. Or take out Larin or Oso and moving both Davies and Buchanan up. 

Edited by archer21
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3 minutes ago, archer21 said:

I think our CB’s are fine in a 3-5-2. It’s just that we’re missing Kennedy right now, and we have been playing Johnston at RWB sometimes instead of RCB. I prefer something like this with our 3-5-2/3-4-1-2

 

I hope so but I have not seen it enough against the opposition we need take points off in the Octo.  I really like Kennedy so far but he has had three caps against decent but non-Octo teams and we were still giving up early chances before our quality took over. 

Again hoping it will come.

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Well no Ayo for the rest of the season and Larin out with a timeline for return not given, that's just great, isn't it? Our depth is about to be tested now. This is why people like @Unnamed Trialist didn't want us bringing an A squad to this thing. At least Davies didn't get injured.....oh wait.

Silver lining is that it may open the door for someone like Jebbison. That almost feels pie in the sky on the back of another loss to the USA, but there is a real path forward for him if he wants it. 

Liam Millar as we know can also play as a 9. That may be a card we want to use for the time being. Probably not for the Gold Cup, but for September.

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8 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Well no Ayo for the rest of the season and Larin out with a timeline for return not given, that's just great, isn't it? Our depth is about to be tested now. This is why people like @Unnamed Trialist didn't want us bringing an A squad to this thing. At least Davies didn't get injured.....oh wait.

Silver lining is that it may open the door for someone like Jebbison. That almost feels pie in the sky on the back of another loss to the USA, but there is a real path forward for him if he wants it. 

Liam Millar as we know can also play as a 9. That may be a card we want to use for the time being. Probably not for the Gold Cup, but for September.

No, don't call anyone else up. Also, pull out of the Gold Cup just in case.

Why subject our soccer players to actual soccer games? Don't want to upset the naysayers.

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8 minutes ago, RS said:

No, don't call anyone else up. Also, pull out of the Gold Cup just in case.

Why subject our soccer players to actual soccer games? Don't want to upset the naysayers.

Dude, I was actually on the other side of that argument and still am. I am not saying we did the wrong thing here by calling out best players. I am just saying that others didn't want us to and they are having their fears play out. It's just really unfortunate, but it is what it is. The silver lining is that it's a chance for us to build more depth. 

Edited by Obinna
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I’ll defend @Unnamed Trialist on this one (probably because we were somewhat on the same page).  I don’t think he advocated anything other than wanting not to subject our top players to the Gold Cup when we have bigger games in the year.  And in the case of niggles that these players were having, that the best thing was to have the medical units at their clubs take care of this.  


We all want Canada to do well.  But if we lose to Costa Rica/Jamaica on Sunday, it won’t feel anywhere as bad as if we lose to Honduras/El Salvador in Sept.  This tournament should be used as a buildup to those games and to look at what we have underneath our top players.  Even though I hate watching the US do well, they did the right thing and looking at other players for potential.  And I think they found one or two.

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6 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I’ll defend @Unnamed Trialist on this one (probably because we were somewhat on the same page).  I don’t think he advocated anything other than wanting not to subject our top players to the Gold Cup when we have bigger games in the year.  And in the case of niggles that these players were having, that the best thing was to have the medical units at their clubs take care of this.  


We all want Canada to do well.  But if we lose to Costa Rica/Jamaica on Sunday, it won’t feel anywhere as bad as if we lose to Honduras/El Salvador in Sept.  This tournament should be used as a buildup to those games and to look at what we have underneath our top players.  Even though I hate watching the US do well, they did the right thing and looking at other players for potential.  And I think they found one or two.

Yup, I second that. It's easy to say the USA did the right thing in hindsight, but for us it was important to have some continuity from June and get the core group experience in some important games. I am not going to say it was the wrong decision for Canada just because I have hindsight now, but I will say the USA got it right. 

At least it is not just us, Lozano and Elis are two big players to lose ahead of September. 

Edited by Obinna
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19 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Dude, I was actually on the other side of that argument and still am. I am not saying we did the wrong thing here by calling out best players. I am just saying that others didn't want us to and they are having their fears play out. It's just really unfortunate, but it is what it is. The silver lining is that it's a chance for us to build more depth. 

If you're on the other side of the argument then you shouldn't be bothered (or confused) by what I wrote.

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1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Well no Ayo for the rest of the season and Larin out with a timeline for return not given, that's just great, isn't it? Our depth is about to be tested now. This is why people like @Unnamed Trialist didn't want us bringing an A squad to this thing.

Its wasnt just @Unnamed Trialist !   

i was baffled and still am by the number of negative responses we were getting to the suggestion that we should not be inviting our essential player(s) to this event given that its only 6-8 weeks from WCQ.  
 

i thought it would be safe comment to say so.  But no,  the negative and cynical feedback we got surprised me.   
 

Edited by Free kick
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7 minutes ago, RS said:

If you're on the other side of the argument then you shouldn't be bothered (or confused) by what I wrote.

Now I am more confused by you than I was before. Not sure why being on either side of the argument is a reason to be bothered. If anything, you seem bothered by the other side of the argument, considering the way my comment triggered your sarcastic remark. 

It seems reasonable to me for us to acknowledge that side of the argument now with us losing Davies, Larin and Akinola. This was why some preferred us not to take the risk at this time. Pretty simple. Not saying we did the wrong thing, but wouldn't blame anyone who thinks we did. It's debatable either way, I think.

 

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So while we area all dislocating our shoulders clapping ourselves on the back for being doom sayers...where is the hate for the guys who were crying about Arfield skipping camps???  Wouldnt the same reasoning for why people wanting our best to skip the gold cup apply to him??  He catches shit, but then you guys dont want our best players to go and actually play games against decent competition??  

I've listened to the whining about CSA are pricks, idiots etc for not having enough games, we need more games, play better competition, get team used to high pressure road games, develop team chemistry etc etc ad nauseum.  And now we dont want our players to play in them......ugghhh.   Well the guys that are going to play in WCQ need to play together, or at least a large % of them.  Or else we are just throwing together a bunch of guys in the fall and we'll fail again...and again.  SOme guys skip, some guys are worried about preseason club situation stuff, fine we dont need to cry about that.  But going with a C team of CPL and college guys and getting our asses handed to us isnt helping anything.  You might as well tie one hand behind Herdmans back.  

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47 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I’ll defend @Unnamed Trialist on this one (probably because we were somewhat on the same page).  I don’t think he advocated anything other than wanting not to subject our top players to the Gold Cup when we have bigger games in the year.  And in the case of niggles that these players were having, that the best thing was to have the medical units at their clubs take care of this.  


We all want Canada to do well.  But if we lose to Costa Rica/Jamaica on Sunday, it won’t feel anywhere as bad as if we lose to Honduras/El Salvador in Sept.  This tournament should be used as a buildup to those games and to look at what we have underneath our top players.  Even though I hate watching the US do well, they did the right thing and looking at other players for potential.  And I think they found one or two.

Yes. We have been waiting for 35 years for the chance to play at the world cup.  Whereas we will get to play in the Gold cup in every edition irrespective.   And the first window in september has a key match versus Honduras.  Thats what the focus should have been on.

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