Kent Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Well, it looks like our Gold Cup performance was cosmetically better than recent ones, but the results themselves weren't really that much better. That being said, before the tournament I was hoping for a goal (for a sigh of relief) and then to get out of the group stage (to be pleased with the result). It's a baby step. Also nice to get a bit of schadenfreude with Honduras not scoring a goal all tournament, despite getting 4 games to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingvikingstad Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Fastfeet2 said: Too bad we didnt have Doneil available. Would have been a good game for his abilities. He is the perfect CB for Oz's tactics - powerful in the air, pacey for a CB, aggressive tackler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, dsqpr said: You missed the bit about us out playing them for 80 mins! So we won a majority of the statistical match ups except the one that counts! Yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Diego Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I think OZ got the starting tactics wrong but he deserves credit for switching systems mid way. Totally changed the game. I am encouraged that he is flexible enough to go to a back 3. Against two pacy strikers (which often happens in CONCACAF) a back 3 with two athletic center backs is a great counter. You can go James-Vitoria-Henry against a team like Jamaica. That allows you to use Vitoria as a covering center back with more time on the ball (which is his best role), lets James and Henry focus on man marking (which suits their skill sets), lets you play Petrasso and Edwards/Adekugbe as wing backs (where they are all better) and Hoilett inside (where he is clearly better) or partner Larin with Cavallini (where they both seem to play better). Hell, a 352 type set up sounds pretty good all around. You can use Davies up top or in behind the striker(s) in this formation as well. Note I am leaving out Jakovic and De Jong as I think it is time to move forward from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Diego Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 By the way I see people saying De Jong had a solid game. I think he had a decent game defensively but he killed so many attacks with his insistence on crossing the ball into the box every opportunity he got. None of them came off, he lost possession every time, and I distinctly remember two of them directly leading to very dangerous counters. His crosses legitimately led to more chances for Jamaica than Canada. It was fitting our final play of the tournament was a failed De Jong cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 3 hours ago, hodgkiss said: Kinda blows because Jamaica is a very simple team. The run and defend. Because of this, I wouldn't be trying to cross balls into the box because we wouldn't have an advantage. If it was against Mexico (a much shorter team) the crosses might be a bit easier to get on the end of but we would be owned in the midfield. Only our best chances were in the air, for both strikers. And that toe punch by Arfield, on a quick passing play. And the Hoillet long shot. I think we had chances from the air, close, and further out. That is not bad really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, El Diego said: I think OZ got the starting tactics wrong but he deserves credit for switching systems mid way. Totally changed the game. I am encouraged that he is flexible enough to go to a back 3. Against two pacy strikers (which often happens in CONCACAF) a back 3 with two athletic center backs is a great counter. You can go James-Vitoria-Henry against a team like Jamaica. That allows you to use Vitoria as a covering center back with more time on the ball (which is his best role), lets James and Henry focus on man marking (which suits their skill sets), lets you play Petrasso and Edwards/Adekugbe as wing backs (where they are all better) and Hoilett inside (where he is clearly better) or partner Larin with Cavallini (where they both seem to play better). Hell, a 352 type set up sounds pretty good all around. You can use Davies up top or in behind the striker(s) in this formation as well. Note I am leaving out Jakovic and De Jong as I think it is time to move forward from them. Agree with this 1000% and I've been preaching it. we are clearly weakest at CB and our outside backs are better suited as wing backs.. even guys who didn't feature such as Edwards, aird and ricketts. Honestly I don't see one player who wouldn't benefit from a switch to a 352.. except maybe Davies but I'm confident he could contribute centrally alongside arfield. I think he needs more time still, luckily there are 2 years to wcq yet so blood him! Davies seemed hesitant with his decision making, he couldn't play direct as he usually does and he wasn't taking on guys. Seemed hesitant to shoot from range or try a splitting pass. Also, Piette is the truth. What a tournament he had. Before Vitoria screwed up leading to their first goal there was a tough play on a long ball that he showed incredible composure on, also another late on with a diving header that was whistled as a foul (it wasn't) to regain possession. I haven't been as pleased and confident in a holding mid since De Guzman 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said: Only our best chances were in the air, for both strikers. And that toe punch by Arfield, on a quick passing play. And the Hoillet long shot. I think we had chances from the air, close, and further out. That is not bad really. On the ones that got on net, the keeper dealt with them either comfortably or safely. Apart from Hoillet's shot and save, the two best chances were ones that missed the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReedOnTheGrand Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 9 hours ago, The Beaver said: Hutch's distribution is remarkable, and with both feet, which means he can make the sort of incisive pass that enables us to break down teams. But what I am suggesting here is that Hutch would free Arfield up to be that creative playmaker you describe. And, until Crisante pledges his allegiance to the Maple Leaf, we don't have anyone nearly as good as Hutch in this role. Hutch is also close to retirement, it's probably time to let go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigzTFC Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 It also has to be highlighted how bad our set pieces were. Every free kick and corner was a waste. That can be coached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rightback Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 28 minutes ago, ReedOnTheGrand said: Hutch is also close to retirement, it's probably time to let go. Not until he gives up the game...whatever pros there are to letting it go are massively outweighed by the cons IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Jamaica packed the box with 6-8 big dudes at every one of our attacks. Through the air or on the ground it was going to be difficult. Our only goal was a long range wonder strike by Hoillet, who almost added another. Plus, we had two free headers 6 feet out that were wasted. I thought our attacking play was actually quite promising. The worst thing that could have happened, happened. Jamaica got the early lead, bunkered, stretched the lead, and bunkered some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRM Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 hours ago, kingvikingstad said: He is the perfect CB for Oz's tactics - powerful in the air, pacey for a CB, aggressive tackler I do hope we have Henry and James as the CB duo for the rematch in September. That would stifle their one dimensional game. That said they did execute their bunker and counter. I think the thing that bugs me the most is that Jamaica are our peer. They are not better (well last night they were). To leave a tournament with a loss to a peer hurts me more than if we lost to Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, Ivan said: Jamaica packed the box with 6-8 big dudes at every one of our attacks. Through the air or on the ground it was going to be difficult. Our only goal was a long range wonder strike by Hoillet, who almost added another. Plus, we had two free headers 6 feet out that were wasted. I thought our attacking play was actually quite promising. The worst thing that could have happened, happened. Jamaica got the early lead, bunkered, stretched the lead, and bunkered some more. Two great chances wasted there in the area of the six yard box. At least make Blake live up to his Fox Sports hype by forcing him into a save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 We haven't made the Hex since 1998 Qualifying. We made it out of our Gold Cup group for only the 5th time in 13 tries (including twice by coin flip!). As much as the future may be bright, we have to accept/expect that we are minnows. A quarter-final is punching above our weight, and so though losing sucks, this is a pretty big deal that we've made it this far. It's deja vu to hear people talk about the progress we're making, and how promising this is. We'll be back here after the next tournament, and during the next round of WCQ, talking about the same failures. I know this because it happens after every WCQ cycle and Gold Cup. I know that sounds defeatist, but we have to expect that we are barely a top 10 CONCACAF team (if at all). Moreoever, what it comes down to is that the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. Yes, I know winning/losing isn't behaviour, but the concept can be applied here quite aptly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, RJB said: We haven't made the Hex since 1998 Qualifying. We made it out of our Gold Cup group for only the 5th time in 13 tries (including twice by coin flip!). As much as the future may be bright, we have to accept/expect that we are minnows. A quarter-final is punching above our weight, and so though losing sucks, this is a pretty big deal that we've made it this far. It's deja vu to hear people talk about the progress we're making, and how promising this is. We'll be back here after the next tournament, and during the next round of WCQ, talking about the same failures. I know this because it happens after every WCQ cycle and Gold Cup. I know that sounds defeatist, but we have to expect that we are barely a top 10 CONCACAF team (if at all). Moreoever, what it comes down to is that the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. Yes, I know winning/losing isn't behaviour, but the concept can be applied here quite aptly. Barely top 10? Minnow? lets state facts, we have one loss in 7 matches this year, we are one of 3 countries to lift the gold cup... the difference now is that we have some of the top young talent in the region who are new to the scene. In 2007 and 2009 we didn't, rather we had a bunch of guys who had been with the program for years come together and get results. Now suddenly we have players with under 10 caps showing some serious stuff.. quarter final is definitely not punching above our weight. Let's be real, QF should be an absolute given and expected with the squad we have. Man for man there is no doubt we were a top 5 team in this gold cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrycoyster Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 28 minutes ago, Keegan said: Man for man there is no doubt we were a top 5 team in this gold cup. You think our roster was better than one or more of Mexico, US, Costa Rica, Panama, Honduras? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaub Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I don't think a QF is punching above our weight (which of Curacao, Nicaragua, Martinique or French Guiana are we worse than?), but we're certainly closer to 'group stage flameout' than 'top four in the region' A close loss to a second tier CONCACAF country in a quarterfinal is exactly our level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, harrycoyster said: You think our roster was better than one or more of Mexico, US, Costa Rica, Panama, Honduras? I'd say yes to Honduras and would cite their lack of wins and goals as evidence. I'm not sure the other four are that much ahead (though it gets more complicated once teams are allow to upgrade like the US did). Perhaps where they all score over us is with team/tournament experience. We did have the youngest squad at the Gold Cup, apparently Overall I agree with the original sentiment that reaching the QF was not us punching above our weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, harrycoyster said: You think our roster was better than one or more of Mexico, US, Costa Rica, Panama, Honduras? Yes, better than Honduras for sure who miraculously beat our goalless streak for one tournament and needed a walk over to even get out of the group. I thought panama looked good against the USA but I wouldn't swap our side for theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrycoyster Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 27 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said: I'd say yes to Honduras and would cite their lack of wins and goals as evidence. I'm not sure the other four are that much ahead Oh come on. Mexico, Costa Rica, and the US have all played like garbage in the Gold Cup for whatever reason, but on paper their rosters are clearly superior to ours. There isn't a defender on any of those rosters that wouldn't immediately be our best defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReedOnTheGrand Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 hours ago, rightback said: Not until he gives up the game...whatever pros there are to letting it go are massively outweighed by the cons IMO. I disagree, He'll be close to 40 by the time Qatar comes along. I'd rather play a guy who's below him now but will be still kicking come the next 2 gold cup and Qatar. I think this cup would have been a great good bye but now I think it's time to find his successor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Keegan said: the difference now is that we have some of the top young talent in the region who are new to the scene. In 2007 and 2009 we didn't Davies fits that bill, but I don't think there's really a trend of our youth being stronger now than it was in those days, although our youth wasn't as involved with the Gold Cup team so point taken there. Anyways, I just wanted to point out that in 2007 we made our 4th consecutive appearance at the U20 World Cup. This year we failed to qualify for the U20 World Cup for the 5th consecutive time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Keegan said: Barely top 10? Minnow? lets state facts, we have one loss in 7 matches this year, we are one of 3 countries to lift the gold cup... the difference now is that we have some of the top young talent in the region who are new to the scene. In 2007 and 2009 we didn't, rather we had a bunch of guys who had been with the program for years come together and get results. Now suddenly we have players with under 10 caps showing some serious stuff.. quarter final is definitely not punching above our weight. Let's be real, QF should be an absolute given and expected with the squad we have. Man for man there is no doubt we were a top 5 team in this gold cup. rft. That no chance we are atleast a top 8 team and making the quarters was not punching above our weight. It was expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReedOnTheGrand Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Kent said: Davies fits that bill, but I don't think there's really a trend of our youth being stronger now than it was in those days, although our youth wasn't as involved with the Gold Cup team so point taken there. Anyways, I just wanted to point out that in 2007 we made our 4th consecutive appearance at the U20 World Cup. This year we failed to qualify for the U20 World Cup for the 5th consecutive time. I don't think our youth is better but the path to pro has been improved now(still a ways to go). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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