Gold Cup: non-Canada QF chat thread

[jpg75]

40 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

Cracking opener by Altidore. But Hoilett's shot that was saved in the QF was tougher 

Yup. Different goalie though.

[nolbertos]

What I hated about Jamaica was the bunkering.  I hated it in the Copa America 2016, where they didn't want to get blown out, but thats how you improve and get better, trying to play attacking style.  All this Gold Cup showed is Floroball gets you far but doesn't win you any trophies.  They are fine specimens, but any South American country can crack a defence with passing.  Still they are better than Canada, they got good players than can make the Hex, but against Mexico, USA or Costa Rica, A teams, don't think they can beat them to qualify

[harrycoyster]

5 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

I think their tactics were what was most effective for them. They don't have the skill to play a more attacking game. We are ahead of them in the pure skill department. They are ahead of us in the defensive skill department. But the latter can be taught.

Think it's pretty silly to suggest that defensive skill is easier to obtain than offensive skill given that we have like 15 attackers but not a single true defender playing at or above MLS level anywhere in the world.

Defending takes years of muscle memory and tons of natural ability to master. 

[harrycoyster]

Just now, dsqpr said:

Defensive skill is mostly discipline. Like positional play and getting out quickly to block shots. Attacking skill, the ability to unlock defences, is more the type of thing that you are born with. You either got it or you don't, to some degree.

I don't disagree with this, but in many ways finding players with the necessary physical traits that have high level decision-making and can properly reproduce defensive tactics on the field is rarer than raw attacking talent (see: Canada). 

[harrycoyster]

28 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

The current situation with Canada is a complete anomaly! For 35 years we have struggled to create chances but have been very good at shutting down the opposition.

Then isn't the attacking talent we currently have is just as big an anomaly? Still, I reject your hypothesis. We haven't developed a quality CB in 15 years. It's a modern problem in our youth development, not an anomaly.....in my opinion of course.

28 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

This has the potential to be a golden era for Canada. Our defence can be a lot better just with coaching.

It's not up to the national team program to teach players how to defend. We need to groom a central defender in MLS. I wish I could say there is a high-level CB 2 years away in our pipeline, but if there is I haven't seen him yet. Didic's athletic ability caps his potential and Meilleur-Giguère hasn't looked convincing in years. Legault is our only CB prospect aged 17-23 I'd call high-ceiling and he's at least 4 years away.

[dyslexic nam]

7 hours ago, dsqpr said:

I think their tactics were what was most effective for them. They don't have the skill to play a more attacking game. We are ahead of them in the pure skill department. They are ahead of us in the defensive skill department. But the latter can be taught.

I have always felt this way.  If a team knows they are facing an opponent with more offensive firepower it would be dumb to get into a slugfest with them.  A team that plays defensively and hit on the counter does so because it presents the best chance of getting the necessary result.  Floroball took it to the extreme, and thus was criticized because there wasn't much chance of us actually getting goals on the counter (due to the excessively heavy defensive  line-up he usually fielded).  I never criticized t for being primarily a defensive strategy - it was the extreme implementation of that defensive strategy that led to most of the criticism.  And sure it was great to see us come out of our shell this tournament, but I think with a slightly more cautious approach to the QF (Cav for Larin to lead a high press, Bernier for Tiebert to lock down the middle)  we may have gone through.  

 

Bottom line - I won't fault Jamaica for their tactics.  It clearly worked for them this tourney against opponents who were stronger on paper.

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

And sure it was great to see us come out of our shell this tournament, but I think with a slightly more cautious approach to the QF (Cav for Larin to lead a high press, Bernier for Tiebert to lock down the middle)  we may have gone through.  

We created some excellent chances to score and we didn't, though one did require a top class save to keep the Jamaicans ahead. 

[mrstepp817]

Toughest part is now keeping that momentum and good vibes going through a long stretch of friendlies.....

[gator]

1 minute ago, mrstepp817 said:

Toughest part is now keeping that momentum and good vibes going through a long stretch of friendlies.....

That shouldn't be a problem with the new enthusiasm, a new coach and style of play and competition for starting spots!

[mrstepp817]

Just now, gator said:

That shouldn't be a problem with the new enthusiasm, a new coach and style of play and competition for starting spots!

I hope so....having a solid friendly right off the bat vs Jamaica is nice....hope Toronto shows up and shows out

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

We created some excellent chances to score and we didn't, though one did require a top class save to keep the Jamaicans ahead. 

Yes, and because we conceded 2, we had to bang in 3 of those chances to win outright.  That is not an ideal gameplan.

[BearcatSA]

15 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yes, and because we conceded 2, we had to bang in 3 of those chances to win outright.  That is not an ideal gameplan.

But we did generate some really good chances here, and against a defensively oriented team you don't get many.

[Gian-Luca]

Had Blake not got injured, it's possible Jamaica may have won the whole tourney. I don't fault their keeper for either goal, but Blake had the ability to pull off a spectacular save against Altidore similar to what he did to Hoilett on the shot that didn't go in. And the longer that game went without US scoring, the more frustrated they would get.

But we'll never know.

[harrycoyster]

1 minute ago, Gian-Luca said:

Had Blake not got injured, it's possible Jamaica may have won the whole tourney. I don't fault their keeper for either goal, but Blake had the ability to pull off a spectacular save against Altidore similar to what he did to Hoilett on the shot that didn't go in. And the longer that game went without US scoring, the more frustrated they would get.

But we'll never know.

Let's also give credit to the Jamaican back-up keeper for the saves he made. He had 3 or 4 huge saves the last of which was straight up world class. Can't assume Blake would have made all those saves even though he is the better keeper. 

[mrstepp817]

39 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Let's also give credit to the Jamaican back-up keeper for the saves he made. He had 3 or 4 huge saves the last of which was straight up world class. Can't assume Blake would have made all those saves even though he is the better keeper. 

US pretty much dominated the game...I think the goal for Jamaica was the first shot....Blake's a great keeper but their backup was more than commendable