Grizzly Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Just now, Obinna said: --------cavallini-----larin------ Davies--arfield--piette--hoilett Adekugbe--vitoria--jakovic--petrasso Borjan That seems to me to be really weakening the defence to try and force Cavallini onto the field without taking out one of our better players. As much as I love offensive play I don't think our back 4 is strong enough to do this and I don't think Cavallini has been that good to warrant it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Grizzly said: Why does he deserve the start? He hasn't scored in 3 matches, has never scored in 6 matches for Canada and has hardly had a scoring opportunity in the 3 Gold Cup matches. Larin has 5 goals in 14 matches for Canada and hasn't lived up to what we expected of him but if we are going to criticize Larin for not scoring why is Cavallini not being subjected to the same criticism when he has scored far less than Larin and so far does not seem to be even a threat to score. Work rate and holding the ball up are good qualities but in the end a striker needs to create chances and score. Larin has 5 goals in 20 games first of all. Big difference. Secondly, work rate and holding the ball up is huge. Cavallini doesn't need to score if he distributes the ball to Davies who is on fire. Some say assists are more important than goals, and Cavallini has 1 in this tournament after a nice through ball for Davies' first goal. Cavallini also made some crucial blocks in the Honduras game that helped kept us in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, canta15 said: Larin has 5 goals in 20 games first of all. Big difference. Secondly, work rate and holding the ball up is huge. Cavallini doesn't need to score if he distributes the ball to Davies who is on fire. Some say assists are more important than goals, and Cavallini has 1 in this tournament after a nice through ball for Davies' first goal. Cavallini also made some crucial blocks in the Honduras game that helped kept us in it. Yes it is 5 goals in 20 games, I mistakenly looked at starts. Cavallini made one nice pass to Davies but AJH made an even nicer pass to Davies in the same game and in much less playing time. 1 assist in 3 games is not that great. Yes if he was doing a lot of holding the ball and dishing it out to others for good scoring chances then it would be acceptable that he is not scoring. I have seen very little of that other than the 1 pass to Davies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Grizzly said: Yes it is 5 goals in 20 games, I mistakenly looked at starts. Cavallini made one nice pass to Davies but AJH made an even nicer pass to Davies in the same game and in much less playing time. 1 assist in 3 games is not that great. Yes if he was doing a lot of holding the ball and dishing it out to others for good scoring chances then it would be acceptable that he is not scoring. I have seen very little of that other than the 1 pass to Davies. It was better than what Larin did in the game vs Curacao (his first game without Floro as coach). He practically looked invisible, oh and what a surprise he missed another sitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 26 minutes ago, Grizzly said: That seems to me to be really weakening the defence to try and force Cavallini onto the field without taking out one of our better players. As much as I love offensive play I don't think our back 4 is strong enough to do this and I don't think Cavallini has been that good to warrant it. Yeah for sure there is that risk, but I think back to our line up against Scotland, with Arfield and Piette in centre midfield. They coped fine and the centre backs on the day (I believe James and Straith) are technically available, though I think Jakovic and Victoria can do the job. Petrasso and Adekugbe have enough pace to deal with Jamaica's wingers, where I assume their attack will come from. I'm not sold on the line up I just posted, but I do wonder if it's an option. It seems like a waste to keep one on the bench and sometimes it's better to get all your best players on the field at once. In the end we will probably only go with a CF and two high wingers (Davies and Hoilett) and 3 centre mids, which I am fine with. Bernier Arfield and Piette probably to start probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, canta15 said: It was better than what Larin did in the game vs Curacao (his first game without Floro as coach). He practically looked invisible, oh and what a surprise he missed another sitter. Yes but he missed another sitter because he was in position to score and Cavallini hasn't missed sitters or chances because he has hardly had any. I am not saying he has been terrible, there is value in his hold up play. But if we are going to go far in the tournament and become one of the top teams in CONCACAF we need to have a striker who can score and be dangerous in the box and so far I have not seen that from Cavallini. From Larin I have seen that in MLS games but not with the national team but I do think he can improve on his national team performances and I don't think Cavallini has been so good that we should not change it around and try to improve our attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 21 minutes ago, canta15 said: It was better than what Larin did in the game vs Curacao (his first game without Floro as coach). He practically looked invisible, oh and what a surprise he missed another sitter. This site is eating my posts. I will try again below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Interesting question of whether you play Cav, Larin, or both. Part of me says play both, but I think realistically Doc Oc will go with 1 striker, which is what has worked so far. In that case, I think he sticks with Cav and Larin becomes the sub. HOWEVER, the problem with that is that Cav has shown to be MUCH better defensively or defending a lead i.e. clearing headers and hold up play. So then do you go Larin with Cav as the sub? Does that send the wrong message to Cav, who has played very well? Tough decision! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, Obinna said: Yeah for sure there is that risk, but I think back to our line up against Scotland, with Arfield and Piette in centre midfield. They coped fine and the centre backs on the day (I believe James and Straith) are technically available, though I think Jakovic and Victoria can do the job. Petrasso and Adekugbe have enough pace to deal with Jamaica's wingers, where I assume their attack will come from. I'm not sold on the line up I just posted, but I do wonder if it's an option. It seems like a waste to keep one on the bench and sometimes it's better to get all your best players on the field at once. In the end we will probably only go with a CF and two high wingers (Davies and Hoilett) and 3 centre mids, which I am fine with. Bernier Arfield and Piette probably to start probably. I don't think it is a waste to keep Cavallini on the bench and bring him on later as a sub either at striker or on the wing. I would put out this lineup with only one change from yours: -----------------larin-------------------- Davies---------------------------hoilett ------------------Arfield---------------- ----Piette--------------------Bernier---- Adekugbe--vitoria--jakovic--petrasso ------------------Borjan-------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said: Interesting question of whether you play Cav, Larin, or both. Part of me says play both, but I think realistically Doc Oc will go with 1 striker, which is what has worked so far. In that case, I think he sticks with Cav and Larin becomes the sub. HOWEVER, the problem with that is that Cav has shown to be MUCH better defensively or defending a lead i.e. clearing headers and hold up play. So then do you go Larin with Cav as the sub? Does that send the wrong message to Cav, who has played very well? Tough decision! Good point regarding Cavallini's defensive work rate. Larin hasn't offered that. We have won the ball back several times with Lucas leading the line. Do we give that up for Larin, who is more of a threat to score? We'll see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 I would have like to see more offence from Lucas, but he has done more than what folks are saying. The pass on the Davies goal, and the diagonal run on the Arfield goal, take a look in this clip. Then one hard cross where the ball came in and he deflected it on goal but to the keeper. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-pTxR294tc Cavallini has done a lot for our possession, comes out of the CF zone and draws out CBs, is very tough, never looked fazed not once. Also, have to comment: is very fit, watch him the last 20 m in the heat vs. Honduras. He was still pressuring and his facial expression was the same as at the start. Another detail, I think that (crap) ref called at least 3 fouls in his favour, and I am not sure any was really a foul. He shields well and that have given us continuity in play, a rest, and a few set pieces. He was also pretty good defending on set pieces, he's cleared a few if I recall correctly. True, Larin has a lot of this, plus maybe, the jury is still out, more scoring punch. But he's just come in and I suspect OZ will keep the pecking order, somewhat. I think Cav'll start, and then, Larin will definitely get in, in function of the game result. He has proven to be able to play with Davies well (not Hoillet, but Junior doesn't link with anyone quite often), and it does seem AD will get the start too. I have some suspicions about OZ trying to get the players with Jamaican background into the mix, as it is often a motivator (Ricketts). For me, our starters should be exactly our FG starters, with my only doubt about De Jong's holding ability depending who he faces. I've liked him better than Adekugbe though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, dsqpr said: Cav to start, Larin on the bench. Larin only comes on if we need a goal (or, Ironically, if we have all the goals we need!), possibly for Cav, possibly to play with Cav. He will have to bide his time. I actually think Larin has played a lot better for us than some others seem to think but he needs to score more and there is no doubt that Cav is a more complete player who contributes more to the team effort. Having Cav in the team has really helped to move us forward. And I really hope this serves to motivate Larin. I think Larin's target man skills/technique and team contributions have improved since even the WCQ let alone the previous GC, so I am also in the camp that he's better for us than some may feel. To me, he's a poacher with a nose for the goal but he has to be able to put those chances away and not be profligate. The higher the league you aspire to be in, the more clinical you need to be with the fewer opportunities you will be afforded. Is he ready for that next step in his career path? A good time to prove it would be Thursday, either starting or coming off the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 5 hours ago, Grizzly said: Yes but he missed another sitter because he was in position to score and Cavallini hasn't missed sitters or chances because he has hardly had any. I am not saying he has been terrible, there is value in his hold up play. But if we are going to go far in the tournament and become one of the top teams in CONCACAF we need to have a striker who can score and be dangerous in the box and so far I have not seen that from Cavallini. From Larin I have seen that in MLS games but not with the national team but I do think he can improve on his national team performances and I don't think Cavallini has been so good that we should not change it around and try to improve our attack. Fair enough. I guess we'll see who starts when the game comes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 7 hours ago, Obinna said: Yellows reset Not until the semis though, from what I understand, so both players could pick up a yellow on the quarters and miss the semi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrstepp817 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 JMO but I think you start Cav...his hold up play has made a big difference in possession and he's underrated on his defensive work rate...I think Larin is best utilized at the moment as a late sub if you need a goal etc.....maybe next WCQ cycle with more camps, friendlies you work in a lineup with Cav and Larin together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apbsmith Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 7 hours ago, Grizzly said: I don't think it is a waste to keep Cavallini on the bench and bring him on later as a sub either at striker or on the wing. I would put out this lineup with only one change from yours: -----------------larin-------------------- Davies---------------------------hoilett ------------------Arfield---------------- ----Piette--------------------Bernier---- Adekugbe--vitoria--jakovic--petrasso ------------------Borjan-------------- I really like this, would only slighty change formation to push up Bernier beside Arfield and help create even more offense. 4-1-2-2-1 Pushing Bernier up allows Piette to be more central and gives more room for Petrasso to push down the right flank. No reason to not have the mindset to bag goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Grizzly said: -----------------larin-------------------- Davies---------------------------hoilett ------------------Arfield---------------- ----Piette--------------------Bernier---- Adekugbe--vitoria--jakovic--petrasso ------------------Borjan-------------- I would echo this, except I would start Cav over Larin. These guys have 3 games in a short timespan, and chemistry is pretty key as we go deeper. I still have faith (hope?) that Larin will turn a corner for us and get everyone on board in terms of supporting him, but I don't think he represents an upgrade from Cav on the basis of what I have seen so far - and certainly not enough of an upgrade to give him the start in the QFs when Cav has been building an understanding with the guys over the last couple of weeks. Fielding both of them would weaken us defensively (unless Cav has a very different role), and I don't want to risk advancing so we can try swashbuckling. Need to stay defensively tight, which means only 1 up top. And for me that is Cav at the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 jonovision Posted Sunday at 03:21 PM · Report post On 7/16/2017 at 2:22 PM, nolando said: Exactly. Let's not pretend that was world class football on display in the first round. We're starting to show glimpses of the quality football we are clearly now able to play. But it has to be a lot better to progress any further in this tournament. You think we need to be "a lot" better to beat Jamaica or El Salvador? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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