CPL TV Contract

[SthMelbRed]

31 minutes ago, DrummingInMySleep said:

I don’t understand all the potshots at Duane. I consume his stuff all the time and even when he’s wrong (like him guessing a large percentage of foreign players were going to be American), he doesn’t deserve snide personal attacks. The guy has contributed more to Canadian soccer than just about anyone posting on this board. 

I'm going to guess you weren't around here back when Duane was condescending the fuck out of everyone on this board with his Media Guy personality, along with his ever-present lickspittle, Rudi.

[Bison44]

58 minutes ago, RS said:

It actually is, because that's the only game that's scheduled right now.

I expanded the argument to include the rest of the season for those two teams, as there is no real conflict elsewhere in the league with an established MLS club (Pacific being the closest, but it's not really that close in comparison). 

I also said I was fine with the opening game being scheduled as it is, so I actually agreed with most of the rest of your post.

Its the league kick off, so its not just about those 2 teams. If that first game can have a big loud crowd, exciting game and good optics etc it can set the tone for the whole league.    And I wasnt responding to just you but to more to Rollins comments and others thinking its a big mistake to schedule the league kick off when they did.  Although it isnt a given, I think that it "might" be part of a TSN double header with the TFC game and the only people put out will the the small minority of GTA fans that "might" have gone to both games if they were on different weekends.  And in the big scheme of things, I dont think that is a big worry.  

[matty]

10 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Its the league kick off, so its not just about those 2 teams. If that first game can have a big loud crowd, exciting game and good optics etc it can set the tone for the whole league.    And I wasnt responding to just you but to more to Rollins comments and others thinking its a big mistake to schedule the league kick off when they did.  Although it isnt a given, I think that it "might" be part of a TSN double header with the TFC game and the only people put out will the the small minority of GTA fans that "might" have gone to both games if they were on different weekends.  And in the big scheme of things, I dont think that is a big worry.  

cpl....tfc's opening band.

[Winnipeg Fury]

1 hour ago, RS said:

Why rebut a so-called "ridiculous statement" with one of your own?

I didn't call for CPL to revolve around TFC's schedule, but I am suggesting that a couple of its teams (York especially) would be wise not to try to go head to head when it doesn't need to. This isn't a black and white, us vs. them issue as you seem to be trying to make it out to be.

I want all three of the GTA-based pro teams teams to be as successful as possible.

The quote I commented on was not yours.  

 

1 hour ago, RS said:

Why rebut a so-called "ridiculous statement" with one of your own?

I didn't call for CPL to revolve around TFC's schedule, but I am suggesting that a couple of its teams (York especially) would be wise not to try to go head to head when it doesn't need to. This isn't a black and white, us vs. them issue as you seem to be trying to make it out to be.

I want all three of the GTA-based pro teams teams to be as successful as possible.

 

1 hour ago, RS said:

Why rebut a so-called "ridiculous statement" with one of your own?

I didn't call for CPL to revolve around TFC's schedule, but I am suggesting that a couple of its teams (York especially) would be wise not to try to go head to head when it doesn't need to. This isn't a black and white, us vs. them issue as you seem to be trying to make it out to be.

I want all three of the GTA-based pro teams teams to be as successful as possible.

 

You may not have, but that's certainly what the writer is alluding to when he makes a comment suggesting "CPL doesn't pick fights with MLS fans," simply because one match is scheduled within hours of each other.

 

[matty]

10 minutes ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

You may not have, but that's certainly what the writer is alluding to when he makes a comment suggesting "CPL doesn't pick fights with MLS fans," simply because one match is scheduled within hours of each other.

 

it's arguably the most important match of the first season and it's being paired against one of tfc's big event games. if you're gonna talk about the schedule of a single match and express concern over it this is the game to do it.

this def looks like picking a fight.

Edited February 2, 2019 by matty

[Winnipeg Fury]

10 minutes ago, matty said:

cpl....tfc's opening band.

Brilliant.  Could not have said it better myself.  

How dare the upstart CPL schedule one match within hours of TFC.  Unbelievable that such an audacious move by CPL be deemed, "picking fights with MLS fans."
 

[Cblake]

14 minutes ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

Brilliant.  Could not have said it better myself.  

How dare the upstart CPL schedule one match within hours of TFC.  Unbelievable that such an audacious move by CPL be deemed, "picking fights with MLS fans."
 

They way I would at is that you want to maximize your exposure for the first match in league history especially from a media standpoint. A lot the media who will be covering the TFC match that day. Regardless The Spec, which is a TorStar paper will be there and others but it will limited it from standpoint. The first game is the first game, so it will get pumped, but moving forward at least with York I do hope they veer away from TFC kickoffs etc. 

[Winnipeg Fury]

2 minutes ago, matty said:

it's arguably the most important match of the first season and it's being paired against one of tfc's big event games. if you're gonna talk about the schedule of a single match and express concern over it this is the game to do it.

this def looks like picking a fight.

 

It's the inaugural match, it's not at the same time, and I have no problem with CPL doing this. Apparently CPL are comfortable losing a few potential casual MLS fans on this match. Love the confidence, regardless of what happens.

Calling this 'picking a fight with MLS fans,' is a joke.  It makes MLS fans look like whiny babies.

 

 

[matty]

8 minutes ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

 

It's the inaugural match, it's not at the same time, and I have no problem with CPL doing this. Apparently CPL are comfortable losing a few potential casual MLS fans on this match. Love the confidence, regardless of what happens.

Calling this 'picking a fight with MLS fans,' is a joke.  It makes MLS fans look like whiny babies.

ummm given the circumstance, of telling fans to make the choice about which game to attend is a pretty aggressive move and picking a fight with mls and putting fans into an awkward position (maybe even picking a fight).

it's also close enough doing both is basically impossible.

in addition, there's the what if with regards to those curious tfc fans from around the gtha (you say a few but it could be hundreds or thousand+). what if they vast majority pick tfc and cpl underdraws? that is a very fair worry. tfc losing them isn't as big as cpl losing them for this weekend.

Edited February 2, 2019 by matty

[Winnipeg Fury]

6 minutes ago, matty said:

ummm given the circumstance, of telling fans to make the choice about which game to attend is a pretty aggressive move and picking a fight with mls and putting fans into an awkward position (maybe even picking a fight).

it's also close enough doing both is basically impossible.

in addition, there's the what if with regards to those curious tfc fans from around the gtha (you say a few but it could be hundreds or thousand+). what if they vast majority pick tfc and cpl underdraws? that is a very fair worry. tfc losing them isn't as big as cpl losing them for this weekend.

Did we pick a fight with MLS by scheduling this match or by creating our own domestic league  ?  Personally I could care less, what a foreign league in our country thinks.  

I don't think it's aggressive, I think it's confident.  And that's what I want to see by our owners.  CPL is going to have scheduling conflicts with multiple sports, in multiple cities, every week.  

I could care less if we are less a few hundred curious TFC for this one match.  In the big picture, it really is minimal impact.

 

 

 

[matty]

1 hour ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

Did we pick a fight with MLS by scheduling this match or by creating our own domestic league  ?  Personally I could care less, what a foreign league in our country thinks.

lol did you schedule the match? the CPL seems to have picked a fight with a league 12 years established in this country. whether you wanna admit it or not they're a major player in canadian soccer. also it's picking a fight with a CANADIAN team in a foreign league.

1 hour ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

I don't think it's aggressive, I think it's confident.  And that's what I want to see by our owners.  CPL is going to have scheduling conflicts with multiple sports, in multiple cities, every week.

what the shit? you can be confidant and still be aggressive, they're not seperate things. i also don't see it as an overly bad thing but when you're just starting out being conservative is fine. this is a time when playing it conservative might have been the better bet.

also you can't equate cpl going head to head with tfc to cpl competiting with say cfl or the jays, there relation and base for those is largely different.

1 hour ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

 

I could care less if we are less a few hundred curious TFC for this one match.  In the big picture, it really is minimal impact.

the optics of drawing 6500 and 8000 is very noticeable. you might care less but they're clearly trying to make this as big as possible while at the same time opting for a dick measuring contest.

Edited February 3, 2019 by matty

[garmc]

This notion that TFC is untouchable, and nobody is allowed to schedule matches that might upset them is asinine. If The GTA, a region of over 7 MILLION people can't handle two friggin' soccer games in one day, then Canada isn't a soccer country and never will be.

 

And if the draw of this being the first ever CPL game, something CanSoc fans have been begging decades for, isn't enough to draw you away from...what, TFC's 5th game of the season, their 2nd or 3rd home game? against an out-of-conference team, then I'm not really convinced that having the game on Sunday would have made a lick of difference.

You can go to BMO 20 more times this season, but you'll never get another chance to see the first CPL game in history. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by garmc

[Winnipeg Fury]

20 minutes ago, matty said:

lol did you schedule the match? the CPL seems to have picked a fight with a league 12 years established in this country. whether you wanna admit it or not they're a major player in canadian soccer. also it's picking a fight with a CANADIAN team in a foreign league.

what the shit? you can be confidant and still be aggressive, they're not seperate things. i also don't see it as an overly bad thing but when you're just starting out being conservative is fine. this is a time when playing it conservative might have been the better bet.

also you can't equate cpl going head to head with tfc to cpl competiting with say cfl or the jays, there relation and base for those is largely different.

the optics of drawing 6500 and 8000 is very noticeable. you might care less but they're clearly trying to make this as big as possible while at the same time opting for a dick measuring contest.

The only people complaining so far are TFC fans,.....they must be insecure about their dick size.

[toontownman]

I am sure both have been discounted already as I just got into this late but..

Do we know for sure the CPL hadn't picked the date for this match long before the MLS schedule came out? Plot twist maybe it was the MLS that knew and put TFC at home that day? I see the problem but for the reason of all the wonderful comments above I agree with don't see it being a big one. 

Picking fights? Nah... now if someone employed by the CPL was to suggest TFC fans protest the Giovinco treatment and general direction of the club by coming to the CPL opener then arriving late for TFC in protest. That I could see. *DISCLAIMER: DOES NOT CONDONE PROTESTING DURING GAMES* Honestly I do hate it, IMO it doesn't help the team on the pitch. Do it Before at halftime or after. 

[Bison44]

3 hours ago, matty said:

it's arguably the most important match of the first season and it's being paired against one of tfc's big event games. if you're gonna talk about the schedule of a single match and express concern over it this is the game to do it.

this def looks like picking a fight.

Is there something special about it?? What makes it a big event game?  Portland?? Am I missing something??

[Guest]

22 hours ago, Alex D said:

I don't understand the "dual loyalty" fan concept. There are always going to be conflicts, it's unavoidable. What happens when Hamilton or York play TFC in the cup? Is everyone supposed to hold hands and sing kumbaya? You are eventually going to have to pick one team and live with it. 

THIS!

[Guest]

I find it a little amusing that a few very squeaky TFC fans on here are up in arms that they will/would have to miss a TFC match to attend a CPL match, and then justify their outrage by saying their concern is that the CPL has made a BIG MISTAKE! What rubbish. They are annoyed because THEY want to go to BOTH matches and they can't. Said another way, they have a strong desire to watch CPL. TFC and MLS are on a hiding to nothing here: they can only LOSE FANS to CPL! TFC fans are actually afraid that CPL is going to eat TFC's lunch, and THAT is the real reason they are complaining.

So let's just stop the disingenuous outrage on "behalf" of CPL (what a TERRIBLE MISTAKE, I'm so angry they are going to hurt themselves!), and nonsensical comments about "picking a fight" and just call it what it is: you want to have your cake and eat it too.

PICK A TEAM AND STOP CRYING! CPL will be just fine.

[ted]

7 hours ago, DrummingInMySleep said:

I don’t understand all the potshots at Duane.

Just for the record, I am not taking any shots at Duane. I am hoping his sources are wrong and mine are right. Neither result should reflect positively or negatively on either of us personally.

[Bison44]

I just hope I get to watch both games from my easy chair.  

[Winnipeg Fury]

7 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

I just hope I get to watch both games from my easy chair.  

If we are playing, are you going to make it into the big city ?

 

[matty]

3 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Is there something special about it?? What makes it a big event game?  Portland?? Am I missing something??

I originally thought it was a home opener and was mistaken. The fact it isn't doesn't actually remove all the worry but weirdly adds to while lowering the risk on CPL's part (better chance and winning out but if they fail they fail hard).

3 hours ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

The only people complaining so far are TFC fans,.....they must be insecure about their dick size.

Not really. I've seen a good number of non-TFC fans mention concern/confusion over this mainly on Reddit (if you trust flair). It's mainly GTHA fans who wanted to do both, they don't seem to be about loyalty. Shit if you look over on FB there's a bunch of Victoria people who are like "why did you do this? Why?"

3 hours ago, toontownman said:

I am sure both have been discounted already as I just got into this late but..

Do we know for sure the CPL hadn't picked the date for this match long before the MLS schedule came out? Plot twist maybe it was the MLS that knew and put TFC at home that day? I see the problem but for the reason of all the wonderful comments above I agree with don't see it being a big one. 

Picking fights? Nah... now if someone employed by the CPL was to suggest TFC fans protest the Giovinco treatment and general direction of the club by coming to the CPL opener then arriving late for TFC in protest. That I could see. *DISCLAIMER: DOES NOT CONDONE PROTESTING DURING GAMES* Honestly I do hate it, IMO it doesn't help the team on the pitch. Do it Before at halftime or after. 

CPL pres admitted the schedule was a work in progress after the MLS dates were up.

Also you're third paragraph is bad, like do you deny there are optics linked to having your first game going head to head locally with the established brand? It's a bold fuck you move if there ever was one.

Edited February 3, 2019 by matty

[matty]

1 hour ago, dsqpr said:

I find it a little amusing that a few very squeaky TFC fans on here are up in arms that they will/would have to miss a TFC match to attend a CPL match, and then justify their outrage by saying their concern is that the CPL has made a BIG MISTAKE! What rubbish. They are annoyed because THEY want to go to BOTH matches and they can't. Said another way, they have a strong desire to watch CPL. TFC and MLS are on a hiding to nothing here: they can only LOSE FANS to CPL! TFC fans are actually afraid that CPL is going to eat TFC's lunch, and THAT is the real reason they are complaining.

I'm sure that's only like 5 guys, I've seen at least as many CPL fans express haziness about this. Most likely don't give a fuck...TFC do cause they are in a position to lose fans as a result of CPL (especially in the burbs). They probably do care way more than TFC fans care about the live numbers. If they draw under 23k live and Forge York does 8-11k they'll be worried for sure.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

3 hours ago, matty said:

...They probably do care way more than TFC fans care about the live numbers...

Think what would really scare them is York 9 having enough fan interest over the entire first season to justify building the SSS. Hamilton and the Niagara peninsula is enough of its own market in sports terms for the Forge to be tapping into a significant fanbase that wasn't going to BMO Field regularly, so it's less of a zero sum game in that context.

Hamilton are probably doing what they think is best for Hamilton and what comes naturally to them in ownership terms on marketing given the one-sided Ticats vs Argos rivalry that only people in Hamilton really care about. I suspect they don't see York 9's issues with having an overlapping fanbase with TFC as being their problem.

What will be interesting to watch unfold is how the more casual fanbase in Hamilton reacts to having York 9 rather than TFC as the local rival. Bob Young and co no doubt want the Forge to be viewed as soccer's Ticats, but they might wind up with it being generally viewed locally as being closer to the Bulldogs sort of scenario with TFC viewed as the Maple Leafs and York 9 as the Marlies.

Best case scenario for the Forge in year one in a lot of ways would be having home and away Voyageurs Cup games against TFC to ignite a rivalry in that context, because the Bulldogs never get to play the Maple Leafs and my assessment would be that they are the only CanPL team so far that appears to be attracting enough quality players to be able to give an MLS team a bit of a fright thanks to the way they have become intertwined with the Sigma academy setup. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Ams1984]

4 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Think what would really scare them is York 9 having enough fan interest over the entire first season to justify building the SSS. Hamilton and the Niagara peninsula is enough of its own market in sports terms for the Forge to be tapping into a significant fanbase that wasn't going to BMO Field regularly, so it's less of a zero sum game in that context.

Hamilton are probably doing what they think is best for Hamilton and what comes naturally to them in ownership terms on marketing given the one-sided Ticats vs Argos rivalry that only people in Hamilton really care about. I suspect they don't see York 9's issues with having an overlapping fanbase with TFC as being their problem.

What will be interesting to watch unfold is how the more casual fanbase in Hamilton reacts to having York 9 rather than TFC as the local rival. Bob Young and co no doubt want the Forge to be viewed as soccer's Ticats, but they might wind up with it being generally viewed locally as being closer to the Bulldogs sort of scenario with TFC viewed as the Maple Leafs and York 9 as the Marlies.

Best case scenario for the Forge in year one in a lot of ways would be having home and away Voyageurs Cup games against TFC to ignite a rivalry in that context, because the Bulldogs never get to play the Maple Leafs and my assessment would be that they are the only CanPL team so far that appears to be attracting enough quality players to be able to give an MLS team a bit of a fright thanks to the way they have become intertwined with the Sigma academy setup. 

I just don’t think that the analogy is right at all. I get the natural temptation to want to fit things into boxes that make sense to us, all humans do it, but York 9 has nothing in common with the Marlies, especially if TFC is the Maple Leafs. York 9 is TFC’s competition, not its feeder club. CPL is not a subordinate division to MLS as the Marlies’ league must be to the NHL. I simply don’t see the value in this line of thought. I honestly don’t know what the Bulldogs are, and I think the Ticats are a CFL team but I’m not sure. As you can see, I think the analogy has caused your main point to be lost in the confusion. 

 

Are you suggesting:

1) that Hamilton had a greater interest in scheduling the game than York 9 and that therefore concerns about a conflict with TFC didn’t enter into the equation? If so, I don’t think that one club would’ve been given more consideration than another in the scheduling of the inaugural game. 

2) that fans in Hamilton would rather have TFC as their primary rival than York 9 because York 9 is like a minor league team whilst Hamilton are not? If so, I have no idea where to begin with this... first, there’s no evidence that Hamilton is better than York 9. Second, the CPL isn’t a minor league, York 9 shares nothing with the Marlies. Third, TFC is, and will be for a long time, Canada’s biggest and most successful club. It will not be possible for any CPL club to match them in quality (if they play on the field, perhaps during the VC) regularly, at least not for years. Fourth, why would casual Hamilton fans be desirous of Hamilton having TFC as their primary rival instead of York 9, but not say... the Buffalo NFL team (they have one right?) instead of the Argos? 

At any rate, a couple of suggestions to readers in general. For what it’s worth, I understand why we do the whole analogy thing, but I would encourage people to stick to their primary point and to be sure that their analogies don’t shroud their arguments with unnecessary confusion. Second, and more importantly, please don’t denigrate other CPL clubs, or the league in general. The CPL isn’t a minor league, and none of us should bash the other clubs (whether you meant it that way or not, you called York 9 TFC’s feeder team, and that’s baseless and shitty). 

Cheers!

[RickC]

Alternative history...CPL schedules most important soccer game in Canada in a decade to avoid a relatively non-important TFC match (i.e. not a home opener nor against a rival team.) Cue the derogatory comments about how CPL really isn't a D1 league, scared of TFC, etc. 

Sometimes looking at the alternative shows the course chosen was perhaps the lesser of two evils.