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CPL TV Contract

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1 hour ago, matty said:

whitecaps are usually around 135K+ and tfc are usually 95-150k. I'll add the 100-150k games are for like Man City and Chelsea outside of that it's usually under 100k

 

32 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

Masster has a thread with TV numbers.

Well, here's a more recent article than Masster's thread:

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/sports-pmn/baseball-sports-pmn/toronto-fc-success-drives-up-ratings-while-struggling-jays-numbers-drop

In 2017, TSN said they were averaging 93k for Toronto (up from 59k), Vancouver was at 86k (up from 69k) and Montreal was at 80 (up from 73k).  That was also when all 3 teams were having much more successful seasons than last year.  So if you can find me numbers that they jumped from that, please let me know.

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5 hours ago, Watchmen said:

 

Well, here's a more recent article than Masster's thread:

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/sports-pmn/baseball-sports-pmn/toronto-fc-success-drives-up-ratings-while-struggling-jays-numbers-drop

In 2017, TSN said they were averaging 93k for Toronto (up from 59k), Vancouver was at 86k (up from 69k) and Montreal was at 80 (up from 73k).  That was also when all 3 teams were having much more successful seasons than last year.  So if you can find me numbers that they jumped from that, please let me know.

this conflicts with Yahoo's old reports on sports ratings in canada that were done weekly until the end of 2016. it's also where the epl numbers come from. I'd add in 2015, yahoo reporting whitecaps doing 95k viewers as disappointing. 

also curious if your article is inclyidng replays in the "total" which is usually meant to mean across platforms while separating replay. replays often add like 25-40% to the total number.

Edited by matty

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10 hours ago, matty said:

this conflicts with Yahoo's old reports on sports ratings in canada that were done weekly until the end of 2016. it's also where the epl numbers come from. I'd add in 2015, yahoo reporting whitecaps doing 95k viewers as disappointing. 

also curious if your article is inclyidng replays in the "total" which is usually meant to mean across platforms while separating replay. replays often add like 25-40% to the total number.

Well, then how about this one from Yahoo in November 2016: 

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--mls-could-be-on-verge-of-a-new-era-on-tv-165214722-spt.html
"So far, few have cared enough to turn their television sets to whichever channel has been showing the games. Ratings are dismal, with a capital D. 
They are so minute that Canada's MLS teams seldom crack the 100,000 mark and are often so low that the networks and teams don't even release comprehensive ratings information."

If ratings for MLS are considered dismal and barely rate with numbers in the 80-90k range, I really don't think a network is going to give a chance with prime time viewing to something they expect to do considerably worse.

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2 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

It's different thought. Why do 750k tune in for CFL. The gap between CFL and NFL is as large or worse than MLS/CPL. 

Sure, but it's still economically viable to show/produce at 750k.  Advertisers are still very interested at those numbers.  

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As much as I am rooting for CPL, I think it is a but naive to draw too many conclusions re the impact of CFL.  CFL has a long history in this country and in some markets (e.g. SK) it is a huge draw with a ton of support.  CFL is also a legitimate 2nd choice for fans who want to watch a high level of play.  It is only behind NFL (even if by default) in terms of an accessible football product for Canadian fans.  In contrast, a fledgling soccer league based in medium sized markets that will be way down the scale in terms of play quality (in the context of global footy leagues) is a very different beast.

 Sure, CFL offers an aspirational target for CPL in the medium term, but I don't think it tells us too much about what CPL will do.  

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The US MLS and EPL numbers are quite similar to Canada. Relatively, there is more interest in watching soccer on TV in Canada. I only reference the CFL as a counter to the inferior product argument. The people not watching MLS is Canada probably have no idea of it's relative inferiority to Serie A/EPL. They just think it's bad. Some of these people are going to watch CPL because it's local. I'm not sure we can get to 750k without the big three, but I think you will beat the MLS numbers. Perhaps significantly.

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On 1/26/2019 at 10:11 AM, mpg_29 said:

I think I'd prefer Sportsnet or TSN over CBC. CBC doesn't have a dedicated sports channel. Where as Sportsnet/TSN have 5-7 channels each dedicated 24/7 to sports and it's pretty much guaranteed that every game would be shown on TV no matter what day/time. With CBC I doubt they would show more than one game a week on TV and it would probably have to fall into a certain time period(ie saturday afternoon) or it would be conflicting with other planned programming.

Also sports fans are not likely going to flipping to CBC with the remote. They are going to be flipping to Sportsnet or TSN so marketing and crossover potential from other sports is much better.

Those 5-7 channels each is misleading.4 channels each are effectively one channel. Sportsnet’s 4 regional channels will all show a big game (like a Jays game) at the same time because that’s what people with one Sportsnet channel will be able to see. Same goes for TSN 1, 3, 4, and 5. Most of the time all 4 of those channels will be showing the same thing, with only TSN 2 giving an alternative.

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8 minutes ago, Kent said:

Those 5-7 channels each is misleading.4 channels each are effectively one channel. Sportsnet’s 4 regional channels will all show a big game (like a Jays game) at the same time because that’s what people with one Sportsnet channel will be able to see. Same goes for TSN 1, 3, 4, and 5. Most of the time all 4 of those channels will be showing the same thing, with only TSN 2 giving an alternative.

The point is they have significantly more capacity to show games than CBC does. 

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With CBC I could see one match per day (maybe one Saturday one Sunday) The others streamed online then a MOTD type show (as apparently trademarked) one the evening. 

Hopefully we are a matter of days away from losing the speculation!

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I know in Toronto on cable, even skinny basic they offer six CBC channels.   Because of Canada's time zones I watch Murdoch Mysteries on Mondays at 7pm on the CBC Halifax affiliate instead of 8pm on CBC Toronto.   

CBC St John's, Halifax, Toronto, Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver.   Hmm.

How about regional coverage if HFX Wanderers play Calgary that only CBC Halifax and CBC Calgary cover the game so Mr Grouchpot in Toronto doesn't miss his matinee movie?   

Rogers in Toronto has those stations on 124, 125, 127, 130, 131, 132.  besides CBC Toronto on 006.        

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1 hour ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

...I'm not sure we can get to 750k without the big three, but I think you will beat the MLS numbers. Perhaps significantly.

Let's see now. Will I tune in to watch a Giovinco free kick or check out how Cyrus Rollox is doing? Decisions decisions...

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You pose this like it's a "duh!" question. "Of course I'd watch the Giovinco free kick!" But there's plenty of people who would rather watch Cyrus Rollocks. Not because he's Cyrus Rollocks, but because he's wearing a York 9 jersey.

 

I'd rather watch HFX Wanderers play than any other team in the world.

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8 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Let's see now. Will I tune in to watch a Giovinco free kick or check out how Cyrus Rollox is doing? Decisions decisions...

As if they will play at the same time?    Oh  maybe you're on to something.  What time are Arabian league games on?  Isn't that where Giovinco's agent said he'd be playing?  

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2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Well, then how about this one from Yahoo in November 2016: 

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--mls-could-be-on-verge-of-a-new-era-on-tv-165214722-spt.html
"So far, few have cared enough to turn their television sets to whichever channel has been showing the games. Ratings are dismal, with a capital D. 
They are so minute that Canada's MLS teams seldom crack the 100,000 mark and are often so low that the networks and teams don't even release comprehensive ratings information."

If ratings for MLS are considered dismal and barely rate with numbers in the 80-90k range, I really don't think a network is going to give a chance with prime time viewing to something they expect to do considerably worse.

yea 2016 saw a sharp decline at the end of the season mainly for whitecaps (who were the ones mainly cracking 100k). they started doing like 200k for some games (usually it was around 100-120k for about 10 games) and it declined with weak performance. you can actually trace it with the caps if you want. montreal also dragged stuff down (i don't think they broke 100k unless playing a canadian team) but ended up doing ok as playoff numbers were strong. tfc was lowish as **** at the beginning (i think they drew under 50k for several games early on) but got hot at the very end pretty much.

if ircc during the season end tfc hovered about 80 or 100k and impact were close to that as well.

if there's one thing you can really take from mls and epl ratings it's that they can be very fickle. epl's 100k+ viewer games are almost solely big name team games. i think it's very important cpl teams have a sizable base and i'm sure 15K~ would be ok for cpl viewerwise.

Edited by matty

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32 minutes ago, matty said:

i'm sure 15K~ would be ok for cpl viewerwise.

I think this is where we really, really disagree.  At least in terms of tv numbers.  I can't see a network paying for the cost of production if that's the numbers they get.  If those were streaming numbers, I think the CPL would be ecstatic. 

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1 minute ago, Watchmen said:

I think this is where we really, really disagree.  At least in terms of tv numbers.  I can't see a network paying for the cost of production if that's the numbers they get.  If those were streaming numbers, I think the CPL would be ecstatic. 

i don't think a broadcaster is going to be paying for the production cost

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2 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

The US MLS and EPL numbers are quite similar to Canada. Relatively, there is more interest in watching soccer on TV in Canada. I only reference the CFL as a counter to the inferior product argument. The people not watching MLS is Canada probably have no idea of it's relative inferiority to Serie A/EPL. They just think it's bad. Some of these people are going to watch CPL because it's local. I'm not sure we can get to 750k without the big three, but I think you will beat the MLS numbers. Perhaps significantly.

When two of the biggest markets in Canada play (whatever combination of Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver you want), they seem to get ratings in the 300k range.  I'm not at all sure how you think smaller markets will regularly get high numbers than MLS.

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Just now, matty said:

i don't think a broadcaster is going to be paying for the production cost

Are you thinking the league will pay them to be on the network in prime time?  Because that's a 2 hour window they'll have problems advertising during.

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6 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Are you thinking the league will pay them to be on the network in prime time?  Because that's a 2 hour window they'll have problems advertising during.

no i'm think the broadcaster gives them the airtime (maybe controlling the ads that are broadcasted) but cpl has to pay for the production of the broadcast so both are investing in the broadcast.

also 15k isn't terrible depending on the channel and time of day. like if it's snworld or tsn2 from 2:30 to 5 that's decent. if it's bein that's the ******* ****

Edited by matty

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57 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Let's see now. Will I tune in to watch a Giovinco free kick or check out how Cyrus Rollox is doing? Decisions decisions...

If that's how you view things than why even bother with Giovinco free kicks when Messi's are available? 

Edited by C2SKI

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56 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

When two of the biggest markets in Canada play (whatever combination of Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver you want), they seem to get ratings in the 300k range.  I'm not at all sure how you think smaller markets will regularly get high numbers than MLS.

Because MLS numbers are ****! Haven't you confirmed this multiple times?

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4 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Are you thinking the league will pay them to be on the network in prime time?  Because that's a 2 hour window they'll have problems advertising during.

I don’t think we even know yet that games will be at prime time. Hopefully we find out on Tuesday!

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3 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

Because MLS numbers are ****! Haven't you confirmed this multiple times?

But what indicators are there that CPL numbers will be better than MLS? I would love to see that, but it seems like a big leap of faith.

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