Unnamed Trialist Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 3 hours ago, zen said: There is absolutely everything wrong with that, because other than the Voyageurs no one else is going to care about a bush league. So places like Langley should not be allowed anywhere near this league. Saying this about Langley is a hell of a lot more bush league (or ignorant?) than the proposal itself. It is just a place, a place in the centre of an area with a similar population to Vancouver in fact. Look, it is true that all over the world there are teams with a name of a city, and the stadium or training ground is in another city. The problem in cities with MLS teams is that they are not going to help at all and are in fact going to cause hassles if you use those city names. Sure, you can say screw 'em and do it anyways. Or, you can find the major anti-counter-contrasting part of that metropolitan area, and build your team in that major urban centre, near the MLS fan base, just branding it differently. So here, you call it Fraser Valley, or Valley United, whatever it takes, and it is the de fact Vancouver CPL team. Solved. Easy. What we should really be talking about is what a similar scenario in Toronto and Montreal would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Arguably Hamilton in the case of the Golden Horseshoe. Laval for Montreal with Quebec branding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said: Saying this about Langley is a hell of a lot more bush league (or ignorant?) than the proposal itself. It is just a place, a place in the centre of an area with a similar population to Vancouver in fact. Look, it is true that all over the world there are teams with a name of a city, and the stadium or training ground is in another city. The problem in cities with MLS teams is that they are not going to help at all and are in fact going to cause hassles if you use those city names. Sure, you can say screw 'em and do it anyways. Or, you can find the major anti-counter-contrasting part of that metropolitan area, and build your team in that major urban centre, near the MLS fan base, just branding it differently. So here, you call it Fraser Valley, or Valley United, whatever it takes, and it is the de fact Vancouver CPL team. Solved. Easy. What we should really be talking about is what a similar scenario in Toronto and Montreal would be. I think it's important for the CPL to compete in the MLS markets, but in order to be relevant location (population center, stadium location, the city's relevance in Canada) and quality on offer (both in terms of on-field and off-field) are paramount. I believe putting a team in Fraser Valley will only hurt the league's image. The only cities in BC that should/could have teams in the near future are Vancouver, Burnaby, Surrey and Victoria. Unless the teams in the leagues are in cities of that tier people will view the league as a bush league. Furthermore, my response was in regards to the implication Blizzard was making that maybe the owners are deciding to downsize their expectations of this league therefore they are okay with putting a team in Langley, and that if that is the case it's perfectly okay. My response was to indicate that isn't acceptable, because if they don't want to create a bush league they need to aim higher. No one will care to go if it's not worth their money, and to succeed the league/teams need to prove to everyone not just the voyageurs that in all aspects it's worth their time, money and effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 As I have said I will trust the professionals and the people with the money with their plan than than random people on a message board who "know" the only way the league will succeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 No Montreal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 https://mobile.twitter.com/4totera/status/881260023665614848 London Kitchener/Waterloo #2019 Mississauga Victoria #2020 our league for our players for our coaches for us https://mobile.twitter.com/4totera/status/881265638316138496 Niagara Falls Burnaby St Johns #2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 It's all second guessing. The sask ownership was looking at both Saskatoon and Regina. He lists both. It Will be one or the other. They are also lookibg at pop up stadiums. Neither are likely to be ready to start the first year possibly second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 5 hours ago, zen said: I think it's important for the CPL to compete in the MLS markets, but in order to be relevant location (population center, stadium location, the city's relevance in Canada) and quality on offer (both in terms of on-field and off-field) are paramount. I believe putting a team in Fraser Valley will only hurt the league's image. The only cities in BC that should/could have teams in the near future are Vancouver, Burnaby, Surrey and Victoria. Unless the teams in the leagues are in cities of that tier people will view the league as a bush league. Furthermore, my response was in regards to the implication Blizzard was making that maybe the owners are deciding to downsize their expectations of this league therefore they are okay with putting a team in Langley, and that if that is the case it's perfectly okay. My response was to indicate that isn't acceptable, because if they don't want to create a bush league they need to aim higher. No one will care to go if it's not worth their money, and to succeed the league/teams need to prove to everyone not just the voyageurs that in all aspects it's worth their time, money and effort. I insist: Langley is not bush league, you are being bush to even suggest it. You have a bush league mind, sorry to say. Apart from the fact that you are cutting the intelligence of Canadians short, with an irrational bias. Hey, I have been in every province, and the north, and I don't think anyone who has traveled this country would dare be so insulting towards its people and their towns. Any place where they could make a team work is good for me. And let's face it: most of those cities you so admire are losing sports cities, look at our last decades in NHL, losing Expos and Grizzlies. It is not like those prestige names you have pulled out of a hat have anything to boast about. Except someone who did grade 8 geography might recognize them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 38 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said: I insist: Langley is not bush league, you are being bush to even suggest it. You have a bush league mind, sorry to say. Apart from the fact that you are cutting the intelligence of Canadians short, with an irrational bias. Hey, I have been in every province, and the north, and I don't think anyone who has traveled this country would dare be so insulting towards its people and their towns. Any place where they could make a team work is good for me. And let's face it: most of those cities you so admire are losing sports cities, look at our last decades in NHL, losing Expos and Grizzlies. It is not like those prestige names you have pulled out of a hat have anything to boast about. Except someone who did grade 8 geography might recognize them. I think you are being delusional if you think it is my way of thinking that is bush league. I want clubs in Canada to have all the tools necessary to one day compete globally, you put a team in Fraser Valley and that club automatically is at a disadvantage. Economically and culturally what pull does the Fraser Valley have compared to other cities in Canada, the rest of North America or the world. Canada has a habit of thinking too small. It's imperative that we plan big but also plan how we get there. Taking steps early on that deviate from what we should aim for only hurts our ability to reach that end goal. I think people today are too easily insulted. Well guess what? certain places are too small for division 1 sports, and there is nothing wrong in being too small for the CPL. That is a fact. Those place will have their place in the pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 The Fraser Valley is home to close to 1 million people and is projected to take on close to another million in the next 20 years. So by the time the CPL hits it stride a conservative estimate is 1.5 million people in the Fraser Valley. Surrey United is arguably the best soccer club in the province. If you look at the men's and women's programs as a whole they're arguably the best soccer club in the country. If they're at a disadvantage I hate to think what you think of places like Moncton, Halifax & Quebec City Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrycoyster Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 7 minutes ago, SpursFlu said: Surrey United is arguably the best soccer club in the province. What? That definitely isn't arguable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 28 minutes ago, SpursFlu said: The Fraser Valley is home to close to 1 million people and is projected to take on close to another million in the next 20 years. So by the time the CPL hits it stride a conservative estimate is 1.5 million people in the Fraser Valley. Surrey United is arguably the best soccer club in the province. If you look at the men's and women's programs as a whole they're arguably the best soccer club in the country. If they're at a disadvantage I hate to think what you think of places like Moncton, Halifax & Quebec City We've been over this and I believe we established that Surrey is not part of the Fraser Valley. But a team in Surrey close to the planned LRT would be perfect. Halifax, Moncton and Quebec City are economic/cultural centres in their regions. I'm not solely thinking about population alone. Saskatoon and Regina are great candidate cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Seems like they have plan for Langley too. https://m.translink.ca/Surrey Newton Guildford LRT Surrey and Langley are among the fastest-growing communities in the Lower Mainland. Over the next 30 years, the City of Surrey, City of Langley, and Township of Langley are expected to welcome more than 400,000 new residents and 185,000 additional jobs. That’s why improving rapid transit in the South of Fraser area remains a regional priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolbertos Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 I agree with Zen that when people, the people I've talked to in Van. Not one of them refer to Surrey as "Fraser Valley" its more Langley, Maple Ridge, Chilliwack and Abbotsford area. Surrey is its own "designation" nowadays. I've lived in East Van and I've lived in Surrey and I can tell you Surrey peeps don't consider themselves as "Valley" folk. Now in regards to Futbol, I honestly don't think a CPL franchise can make it work in Metrovan with the Caps as primary competition. The Caps namebrand and history extends from Van to Surrey and abit beyond. I honestly don't think Rob Friend is going to make much noise in the Valley, like others stated, transportation sucks and the corporate dollars in the Metrovan area. I would've preferred he put all his time in a Victoria team or someplace. But its his and his investor friends money. If they think they can change lacklustre Valley support for futbol, give it another go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolbertos Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, Ansem said: Seems like they have plan for Langley too. https://m.translink.ca/Surrey Newton Guildford LRT Surrey and Langley are among the fastest-growing communities in the Lower Mainland. Over the next 30 years, the City of Surrey, City of Langley, and Township of Langley are expected to welcome more than 400,000 new residents and 185,000 additional jobs. That’s why improving rapid transit in the South of Fraser area remains a regional priority. That plan is as old as the skytrain itself. They've been talking about expanding the skytrain the last 20 years in Surrey, but nothing ever has occurred, due to several reasons. One, the City of Surrey is cheap on getting municipal money funds to use for this project as the provincial government has shot down past proposals. Two, the Township of Langley is even poorer than Surrey even with more population there, so I doubt they'll fork up money to extend the line there. Three, the mayor of Surrey, Linda Hepner is pushing for a LRT system instead of skytrain for Surrey, as she knows the feds and prov government won't give Surrey money on skytrain, so maybe a LRT project might happen. Lastly, Translink is losing money maintaining there existing systems, so I doubt they have money to extend the line to surrey or langley in the next 30-40 years. The only reason the Canada line got built was because Richmond and YVR had the funds to partially fund the project due to heavy construction revenues, something that's not happening in Surrey and Langley yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grande Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 8 hours ago, zen said: I think you are being delusional if you think it is my way of thinking that is bush league. I want clubs in Canada to have all the tools necessary to one day compete globally, you put a team in Fraser Valley and that club automatically is at a disadvantage. Economically and culturally what pull does the Fraser Valley have compared to other cities in Canada, the rest of North America or the world. Canada has a habit of thinking too small. It's imperative that we plan big but also plan how we get there. Taking steps early on that deviate from what we should aim for only hurts our ability to reach that end goal. I think people today are too easily insulted. Well guess what? certain places are too small for division 1 sports, and there is nothing wrong in being too small for the CPL. That is a fact. Those place will have their place in the pyramid. Where do you get this idea that certain cities are too small for top flight soccer? I listed some small English towns on the last page, but the Bundesliga has seven cities in it that are under 200,000 people, and another five that are under 300,000. Hell, Hoffenheim is a village of 3,200. Is the Bundesliga bush league in your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenFisk'sBiggestFan Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 1 hour ago, grande said: Where do you get this idea that certain cities are too small for top flight soccer? I listed some small English towns on the last page, but the Bundesliga has seven cities in it that are under 200,000 people, and another five that are under 300,000. Hell, Hoffenheim is a village of 3,200. Is the Bundesliga bush league in your mind? Exactly! All that matters is they fill their stadium. The development of soccer clubs is not like other north american sports. I am pumped that the CPL sees opportunity in cities of that size. That means that their business plan is solid, sustainable, and there is a lot of opportunity for growth and expansion! I can't wait for these clubs to get academies. If places with the prowess of the FV can get teams that means we can have academies in so many cities across the country. This is exactly what Canada needs to help strengthen soccer in this country. I do understand that the league might not "get the respect of canadians" at first. But what matters is quality on the field and the number of fans in the stadium. People living in FV could be getting a top flight team to call their own. If they can fill the stadium then what is the problem? If the fans show up, and the quality is decent and improves over the years then the CPL will gain the respect of other Canadians. Let's face it, the MLS still gets laughed at by %50 of "soccer fans" in north america. But, i would still call the league a success. And judging by the fact that the CPL could be placing teams in places like FV the CPL could do even better. This league could cover more of Canada than any other top tier league of any sport! That is a GOOD thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 I don't get the panic over the possibility of Langley. If anything it will create a demand within Vancouver Metro for more clubs. It's actually smart for CPL to occupy all the markets that MPS doesn't and won't. Once the big 3 are surrounded, you can bet that fans within those markets might start dreaming of their city being part of it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 2 hours ago, grande said: Where do you get this idea that certain cities are too small for top flight soccer? I listed some small English towns on the last page, but the Bundesliga has seven cities in it that are under 200,000 people, and another five that are under 300,000. Hell, Hoffenheim is a village of 3,200. Is the Bundesliga bush league in your mind? I think there are fundamental difference that makes it difficult to compare the North America to Europe. A 100 years of football culture for one. Population density is another factor, while Hoffenheim is small there are sizeable markets less than an hour away with no top flight soccer. Someone said earlier that they trust the business sense of the owners, and people can choose to give them the benefit of the doubt. I just think that they are going to learn a few lessons hopefully sooner rather than later about what works and what doesn't, and I believe this won't. I guess we will have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 29 minutes ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said: ...People living in FV could be getting a top flight team to call their own... Think it's only a few people on here that care about this "top flight" thing. The key is getting a team of their own and what happens on the field of play will be what shapes public perceptions as to whether MLS or CPL is the higher standard in much the same way as with MLS and the NASL when some people started pushing the rival D1 league angle. You need to walk the walk as well as talk the talk to be taken seriously on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 20 minutes ago, zen said: I think there are fundamental difference that makes it difficult to compare the North America to Europe. A 100 years of football culture for one. Population density is another factor, while Hoffenheim is small there are sizeable markets less than an hour away with no top flight soccer. Someone said earlier that they trust the business sense of the owners, and people can choose to give them the benefit of the doubt. I just think that they are going to learn a few lessons hopefully sooner rather than later about what works and what doesn't, and I believe this won't. I guess we will have to wait and see. And you know better why? Sounds to me like CPL has a plan. No one wants to fail like early MLS or CSL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, Ansem said: And you know better why? Sounds to me like CPL has a plan. No one wants to fail like early MLS or CSL It's my opinion and I am allowed to state it on a messaging board. Doesn't make it right or wrong until we see what the outcome is does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 54 minutes ago, zen said: It's my opinion and I am allowed to state it on a messaging board. Doesn't make it right or wrong until we see what the outcome is does it? Fair enough. I respect it. I think Surrey should have been ahead with Langley/Fraser Valley entering as D2 expansion. That's my opinion but it could work. I like Beirne vision in the sense that he doesn't see the 3 big metro areas as 1 markets but as multiple markets within them like whats being done in Europe. Rivalries is what MLS is actually lacking the most and Canadian clubs are giving it it's most intense rivalry. Can't wait to see passionate derbies within the same areas. Why MLS doesn't have 2 clubs in Chicago (North and South river) WITHIN the city is a mistake and miss opportunity of epic proportions. CPL won't be perfect and I'm aware of that. There will be things that will annoy me, and frustrates me but no league is perfect. MLS has a lot of flaws as well and I just grow tired of reading people putting that league as the perfect model to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpg_29 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 I think the success of the MLS teams proves pro soccer can work in Canada....I mean each team would rank decently in Netherlands in terms of attendance. Question is can that success be translated elsewhere in Canada with a Canada-only league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 11 minutes ago, mpg_29 said: I think the success of the MLS teams proves pro soccer can work in Canada....I mean each team would rank decently in Netherlands in terms of attendance. Question is can that success be translated elsewhere in Canada with a Canada-only league. I think so. Thanks to American pro leagues who deems our cities too small to have teams, most clubs will be unopposed in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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