A Modest Idea

[Kent]

11 hours ago, matty said:

The way i would see voting is everyone that donates at least $5 to the prize gets ballot with 3 slots and voters must pick their top 3 players unranked (with a rule allowing only one player per team) and the player with the most overall appearances wins. I feel that would prevent one SG from controlling the vote.

I like this idea. Fan voting almost always results in garbage results, so this is a good way to mitigate the risk. I think the people you can vote for have to be nominated beforehand rather than write in (maybe that's what you had in mind) to avoid people having 1 real vote and 2 throwaway votes for players that didn't really factor in the season.

[Gopherbashi]

Yeah, I think you either need to have controlled nominations or a controlled final round to get a good result in this.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

On 2/7/2018 at 8:15 PM, toontownman said:

Recipient must sign in blood thayt they will represent Canada and not defect. 

hahahahahahaha yes.  

[Complete Homer]

I'll help support any award the majority feel is appropriate, but it might be worthwhile reaching out to the league to make sure we aren't stepping on any toes

[matty]

4 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

I'll help support any award the majority feel is appropriate, but it might be worthwhile reaching out to the league to make sure we aren't stepping on any toes

Oh this would definitely need at least a blessing to happen, especially if we want the player to actually accept it in person. I think once everything is all open we and the SGs should contact the teams and league asking for said blessing while maintaining the prize as something mostly independent from the league and then work from there.

[Complete Homer]

To try to get a little bit of steam behind this idea, I included it in the new unofficial CPL fan survey (http://www.northernstartingeleven.com/unoffical-cpl-fan-survey-part-two/), including an option to be contacted if/when a crowdfunding initiative was started. Hopefully we gather some support and better understand what sort of award people would be most interested in contributing to

[Complete Homer]

Update:

We're sitting at 250+ responses so far, 74% said they would help crowdfund a trophy and a decent number left contact information. Only those who said yes were brought to the next page to vote on details.

Just under half would want to do the trophy for winning the table (46%), second place wants to do Top Canadian(25%), third wants to do Top Young Canadian (13%), fourth is MVP (9%), the rest didn't garner much support

For style, 39% want a cup, 28% want a shield, 18% want a plate. Plaque and cash prize didn't have much support.

There was some feedback in the written portion that we shouldn't be trying to do a trophy for winning the table, as the Voyageurs Cup already stands as a supporter's donated team prize, and that we should focus on an individual prize instead. For names, the most common suggestions so far have been "Canadian Shield" (presumably for winning the table), and the "Atiba Hutchinson MVP/Top Canadian" award, which I personally think is a great direction to go in.

I think there is a path forward on this project:

1. Let the survey collect more answers in the next 4-6 weeks to make sure anyone who wants a say gets their vote.

2. I can bring the top three choices for award type to the CPL supporters council that has popped up, they can communicate with the league to see what the league sees as appropriate. I suspect the league would want to handle its own top prize itself, so I think giving them multiple options that the supporters are willing to fund is a good idea. I would guess that a Top Canadian award would be more acceptable

3. Once we know what the actual award is going to be for, we can start crowdfunding, getting quotes from some custom designers (any suggestion @admin ?), and attach the naming competition to the crowd funding page.

 

Sound like a plan?

[matty]

3 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

Update:

We're sitting at 250+ responses so far, 74% said they would help crowdfund a trophy and a decent number left contact information. Only those who said yes were brought to the next page to vote on details.

Just under half would want to do the trophy for winning the table (46%), second place wants to do Top Canadian(25%), third wants to do Top Young Canadian (13%), fourth is MVP (9%), the rest didn't garner much support

For style, 39% want a cup, 28% want a shield, 18% want a plate. Plaque and cash prize didn't have much support.

There was some feedback in the written portion that we shouldn't be trying to do a trophy for winning the table, as the Voyageurs Cup already stands as a supporter's donated team prize, and that we should focus on an individual prize instead. For names, the most common suggestions so far have been "Canadian Shield" (presumably for winning the table), and the "Atiba Hutchinson MVP/Top Canadian" award, which I personally think is a great direction to go in.

I think there is a path forward on this project:

1. Let the survey collect more answers in the next 4-6 weeks to make sure anyone who wants a say gets their vote.

2. I can bring the top three choices for award type to the CPL supporters council that has popped up, they can communicate with the league to see what the league sees as appropriate. I suspect the league would want to handle its own top prize itself, so I think giving them multiple options that the supporters are willing to fund is a good idea. I would guess that a Top Canadian award would be more acceptable

3. Once we know what the actual award is going to be for, we can start crowdfunding, getting quotes from some custom designers (any suggestion @admin ?), and attach the naming competition to the crowd funding page.

 

Sound like a plan?

Not surprised by the results here and thanks again for doing it.

I did have one bit of criticism here and that is I feel the why gets lost. Like the reason why I suggested an award with cash included for a U23 Canadian was to help support the guys who are more than likely making less money but are working their way up. I felt that idea was buried a bit in the survey.

I think we shouldn't go forward with anything until things are more settled in regards to the league and then maybe take the top 3 individual honour picks and move forward from there with a more detailed take explaining the pros and cons of each.

I also don't think it should be a general design like a shield or trophy handed to a new winner each year but something sort of custom chosen by the victor's local SG.

[Complete Homer]

8 minutes ago, matty said:

Not surprised by the results here and thanks again for doing it.

I did have one bit of criticism here and that is I feel the why gets lost. Like the reason why I suggested an award with cash included for a U23 Canadian was to help support the guys who are more than likely making less money but are working their way up. I felt that idea was buried a bit in the survey.

I think we shouldn't go forward with anything until things are more settled in regards to the league and then maybe take the top 3 individual honour picks and move forward from there with a more detailed take explaining the pros and cons of each.

I also don't think it should be a general design like a shield or trophy handed to a new winner each year but something sort of custom chosen by the victor's local SG.

I agree that it's reasonable to wait a little longer, maybe approach the league some time this summer?

I definitely see your point and why you pitched the idea, though I think for a crowd funded award the decision on the direction should come from a democratic process 

[matty]

Just now, Complete Homer said:

I agree that it's reasonable to wait a little longer, maybe approach the league some time this summer?

I definitely see your point and why you pitched the idea, though I think for a crowd funded award the decision on the direction should try to be democratic about it. 

Summer or fall seem like a good time to ask. We also have plenty of time still to hammer out kinks.

And I do agree, I just think it might be worth considering a second vote once things are more firm, for both the league and groups, with a bit more detail and discussion for the options and moving forward from there. Maybe with a hands up in person vote done by the SGs.

Either way however it goes forward it'll be great.

[Complete Homer]

Just now, matty said:

Summer or fall seem like a good time to ask. We also have plenty of time still to hammer out kinks.

And I do agree, I just think it might be worth considering a second vote once things are more firm, for both the league and groups, with a bit more detail and discussion for the options and moving forward from there. Maybe with a hands up in person vote done by the SGs.

Either way however it goes forward it'll be great.

Yup, I was thinking that once we had a direction on what the award is for, we could attach a final survey to the crowdfunding page to guide stylistic preferences

[CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE]

1 hour ago, Complete Homer said:

Yup, I was thinking that once we had a direction on what the award is for, we could attach a final survey to the crowdfunding page to guide stylistic preferences

Can you direct me to the survey & crowd funding page?... Also any chance for those interested to get involved in these projects, to volunteer their work and ideas for it? 

[Complete Homer]

10 minutes ago, CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE said:

Can you direct me to the survey & crowd funding page?... Also any chance for those interested to get involved in these projects, to volunteer their work and ideas for it? 

No crowdfunding page yet, that's a few steps down the road

here is the survey: http://www.northernstartingeleven.com/unoffical-cpl-fan-survey-part-two/

Right now we are just gathering information, ie who is willing to pitch in and what kind of project do they want to do. When we've got a solid idea we can take it to the league

[Admin]

So, where is the award coming from exactly?

 

[Complete Homer]

2 hours ago, admin said:

So, where is the award coming from exactly?

 

Well, of the 180 people so far who said they would contribute, 53 said that the were Voyageurs. So, I guess at this point it's coming from a loose gathering of people, some of whom are Voyageurs?

I wasn't trying to claim ownership of the project or anything, just decided to get the ball moving a bit by getting some feedback and seeing what kind of support was out there. If people wanted to make this a Voyageurs specific award, I doubt anyone would have reason to object.

Unless you meant who would be presenting the award, I didn't really think that far ahead. Lots of suggestions in the survey were for it to be a fan vote, presented by a local CPL supporter's group.

[Admin]

A Voyageurs award would be great.  

Just three things.

• As a non profit, giving away money might be complicated. 
• All of our awards are shifting to customized antique looking paddles, which the player/person would keep.
• We have also agreed in principle with the CSA to make sure we do not have awards that collide, so we can in the future present them at games.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Complete Homer]

3 hours ago, admin said:

A Voyageurs award would be great.  

Just three things.

• As a non profit, giving away money might be complicated. 
• All of our awards are shifting to customized antique looking paddles, which the player/person would keep.
• We have also agreed in principle with the CSA to make sure we do not have awards that collide, so we can in the future present them at games.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alright, so I'm hearing that we need to communicate with the CSA as well that whatever options people are most interested in pursuing doesn't overlap with something that they want to do. That's reasonable 

As for styling, most of the feedback seemed to indicate people wanted a permanent award of some kind. If we are crowdfunding I would think going along with the democratic process would be appropriate, no? 

[ted]

23 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

There was some feedback in the written portion that we shouldn't be trying to do a trophy for winning the table, as the Voyageurs Cup already stands as a supporter's donated team prize, and that we should focus on an individual prize instead. For names, the most common suggestions so far have been "Canadian Shield" (presumably for winning the table), and the "Atiba Hutchinson MVP/Top Canadian" award, which I personally think is a great direction to go in.

1. WTF are these people who have no fucking clue what the VCup is??!?
   
   It is a cup competition, like the FA Cup or US Open Cup and has nothing to do with league standings. It is now for the top professional team in Canada and was only given for league results in the first years because that's all there was. 
    
2. I voted for a "cup" but I love the sound of "Canadian Shield". Can I change my vote? 

 

[Rheo]

My issue/question with the proposed monetary award (besides the non-profit angle Jamie mentioned) is while definitely well intentioned, you have to be able to raise the money each year to fund it and the difficulties that that might entail.

[Complete Homer]

8 minutes ago, ted said:

1. WTF are these people who have no fucking clue what the VCup is??!?
   
   It is a cup competition, like the FA Cup or US Open Cup and has nothing to do with league standings. It is now for the top professional team in Canada and was only given for league results in the first years because that's all there was. 
    
2. I voted for a "cup" but I love the sound of "Canadian Shield". Can I change my vote? 

 

If you can PM me a few details about your answers I can probably find the results and change them. You're in Victoria right? 

I think people understand what the V-Cup is, they just thought an individual prize hasn't been done 

While it's on the survey, I would honestly be pretty surprised if the league was open to its top prize being in the hands of a crowdfunding award. Something tells me "Top Canadian in CPL" (which is currently 2nd place) is more realistic 

@Rheo I have the same reservations, basically you'd want to set up a fund with some ETFs that you could pay out the prize money with dividends. Rule of thumb would be 3-4% of the total fund, so you'd need a pretty large amount of cash to even have a small annual prize. I think you get more bang for buck going with a physical award

[Rheo]

5 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

 

@Rheo I have the same reservations, basically you'd want to set up a fund with some ETFs that you could pay out the prize money with dividends. Rule of thumb would be 3-4% of the total fund, so you'd need a pretty large amount of cash to even have a small annual prize. I think you get more bang for buck going with a physical award

As well as the pros of the bang for the buck factor, it's also only a one time cost for the group.  Trying to fund something like that, as well intentioned as it is, would continually takes away money that could be used by the individual supporters groups and the V's at large.  Now if we/the league could find a sponsor for a monetary prize...

[Admin]

This league as it stands is very well organized and professionally run.  It is insanely presumptuous for people to think we can simply make the top award for it.   

I will get in touch with them to see if there is a way we can be involved.   No one else should do this.  So please do not call the CanPL league on behalf of the Voyageurs regarding anything like this.  We can't have this be like the old days when 17 people would pester an organization about the same thing and then they quit talking to us. 

Awarding money, I can take a solid guess, will not be something we can or should do.   I would drop it completely until our trusty super accountant and lawyer can give me a clear answer on the ramifications of that.   It also would be lethal for anyone in or possibly even going to college/uni. 

The award can be both, the player award, a trophy/shield and a take home paddle.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Admin]

I think the 'money' side of this  needs to be scrapped.  It's well intentioned, but potentially deeply problematic.  Consider the following.

• If the league is successful, in the future the best Canadian players in the league should be U23, and very well paid.  
• What does it look like if we are scraping together a few grand to give a to a player?  Optics wise it looks bad if it's small, and it also looks bad if it is big.   I would say it is lose lose.   It makes the league look bad and the player look like a charity case.
• Legal complications include college players and charity vs non profit.  Raising money to give it away as a prize is almost certainly strictly regulated.
• Doing this year over year will fail.  People get fatigued giving money to starving children, let alone pro players of a sport

Since this is a Canadian league, we should also be good hosts.  Hosts to all of those people who choose to come and play here.   If we are going to give out awards that are restricted to Canadians, they should be restricted to national teams or filtered by some other means.   It feels squirmy or wrong to distinguish  the nationality of the players in the league.   If those players come to play here, I say we treat all of them in the league equally.   I think doing otherwise sets yourself up for some awkward situations you don't want. 

 

[Rheo]

I agree Jamie we should be good hosts but I know you'll get some kickback here lol.  I remember seeing some on here in the past advocating limiting the number of players from Concacaf countries because it would help them and possibly hurt us in the future.  One of my favourite ridiculous ideas on here

[Complete Homer]

16 minutes ago, admin said:

This league as it stands is very well organized and professionally run.  It is insanely presumptuous for people to think we can simply make the top award for it.   

I will get in touch with them to see if there is a way we can be involved.   No one else should do this.  So please do not call the CanPL league on behalf of the Voyageurs regarding anything like this.  We can't have this be like the old days when 17 people would pester an organization about the same thing and then they quit talking to us. 

Awarding money, I can take a solid guess, will not be something we can or should do.   I would drop it completely until our trusty super accountant and lawyer can give me a clear answer on the ramifications of that.   It also would be lethal for anyone in or possibly even going to college/uni. 

The award can be both, the player award, a trophy/shield and a take home paddle.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Was not intending to be presumptuous, I saw an idea that hadn't gained traction after 6 months of discussion and decided to gather some data, nothing wrong with that in my opinion. As I said in most posts, I also strongly doubt the league would have any interest in a fan funded award for winning the table, this is why I suggested approaching them with a few ideas that people were interested in

I had no intention of calling up the league. I specifically said I would talk to a few of the leaders of the supporters groups and see if they were interested in broaching the subject. No one is going rogue here Jamie. 

Agreed on the money aspect.