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2017 Gold Cup Opponents


Gian-Luca

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2-0 final ES over Curacao. Both teams missed a boat load of chances. Curacao are basically done, ES moves to 3 points and an even goal differential with 3 scored, 3 conceded. They remain in 3rd place for now, at least until the outcome of Mexico vs. Jamaica.

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1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

Mexico 0, Jamaica 0. Both teams move on to 4 points and have a plus 2 goal differential. Mexico in first with more goals scored.

After two matches for each team, Canada leads the Gold Cup in goals scored - who'd have thunk it?

 

Are we all collectively dreaming?

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Well, as if I needed more motivation to hate Honduras:

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/07/14/concacaf-issues-florent-malouda-ruling-french-guiana-forfeit-gold-cup-game

It's simple for us now. We need a win or a draw to claim 2nd (FG need to get a result for us to get 1st). A loss and we can still go through in 3rd place with 4 pts, but we have to hope for a Panama win over Martinique and/or a Jamaica win over El Salvador so that at least one group B/C 3rd place team finishes with 3 pts.

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It's still not that easy unfortunately, there is still a lot of pressure because if I'm reading this correctly if Canada loses, we need Panama to beat Martinique and or  Jamaica to beat El Salvador , I can easily see both Jamaica and Panama not winning their games yikes .

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I find it totally irrational that the result of 3-0, which is merely symbolic, is made to count as actual goals scored. It is a ruling that defies basic legal sense, since it hurts third parties who are uninvolved and gives the winning team an unfair advantage over and above the win itself. 

That a Canadian heads the commission that made that ruling makes it even more distasteful. 

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30 minutes ago, 1996 said:

It's still not that easy unfortunately, there is still a lot of pressure because if I'm reading this correctly if Canada loses, we need Panama to beat Martinique and or  Jamaica to beat El Salvador , I can easily see both Jamaica and Panama not winning their games yikes .

Tiebreaker is Goal diff, then Goals scored, then drawing lots which makes for a lot of weird permutations. 

Basically though, we'd need to lose by 2 and have both those games end in draws to be in any trouble.

In the event of us losing by 1, an El Salvador win would actually put us through on goals scored ahead of Jamaica (unless Jamaica scored at least 3 and we didn't score any). Martinique winning a low scoring game would similarly see Panama out too. 

If Martinique and El Salvador both draw somehow and we lose by 2, then things would get interesting. Even then we would go through ahead of El Salvador unless they score at least 2 goals in the draw and we don't score any.

Obviously we just need to go out and take care of business. I think we're a better team and need to show it tonight. There's still a chance of us eliminating Honduras which would be the only fair way to end the group stage.

Hopefully the added pressure will help us get ready for the knockout stage. Interested to see what our lineup will be. I'm mostly worried about Arfield playing and picking up another yellow. Too bad we won't know the results of the other games until after we've played.

 

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Assuming Mexico, USA and Costa Rica win or tie their final match (which is worst case scenario for us and entirely likely)

 

If Canada lose 1-0 we are in unless

  1. Panama ties 2-2 or more AND

  2. Jamaica lose by exactly 1 goal (but 4-3 or more)

 

If Canada lose 2-0 there are plenty of scenarios in which we are eliminated

  1. Panama ties with any score / Panama lose by 1 (but 3-2 or more) AND

  2. Jamaica lose by exactly 1 goal / Jamaica lose by exactly 2 goals (but 4-2 or more) / Jamaica ties (2-2 or more)

 

If Canada lose 3-0 or more then we need one of the following to happen:

  1. Panama win OR

  2. Jamaica win

 

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2 hours ago, maplebanana said:

This fills me with a pretty diverse range of emotions.

  • Hatred for Honduras, just because.
  • Disgust with CONCACAF, for allowing it to happen in the context of what serves as our regional championship tournament.
  • Extreme disappointment that our representation at the head of CONCACAF has done nothing whatsoever to ensure that we get a fair shake (and that is all I am looking for - fairness, not special treatment).
  • Anger at French Guiana, both for flagrantly and knowingly violating the rules, and for providing a huge advantage to Honduras by doing so.
  • And sadness that this may still be in the back of my mind during a crucial 3 minute period this evening.
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After seeing results NOT go our way these past 2 days (i.e., Mexico not beating Jamaica and the US not winning by at least 2-3 goals over Mart.), I've changed my mind: we need to field a very strong line-up.  If Arfield / Vitoria picks up a yellow, and/or anyone can't go in the QF because of fatigue, then so be it.  I would go with this tonight:

Borjan

Petrasso - Jako - Vitoria - MDJ

Arfield - Piette - Bernier

Ricketts - Cav - Hoilett

That still means that MDJ, Bernier, Ricketts, and Cav are all rotating into the starting 11, so we still have some very fresh legs. Depending on the scoreline, subs could be:  Davies for Hoillett around minute 60, Teibert for Bernier, and AJH for Cav.

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7 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:
  • Extreme disappointment that our representation at the head of CONCACAF has done nothing whatsoever to ensure that we get a fair shake (and that is all I am looking for - fairness, not special treatment).

What would your "fair" solution have been, considering that a 3-0 result is the standard for a forfeit?

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Just now, Gopherbashi said:

What would your "fair" solution have been, considering that a 3-0 result is the standard for a forfeit?

  • Awarding a similar scoreline to the other 3 members of our group, to counter the idea that FG gets to allocate a 3-0 win at their discretion. 
  • Letting the on-field result stand since CONCACAF did nothing whatsoever to actually prevent the event from occurring.
  • CONCACAF actually preventing the event from occurring by simply not allowing Malouda on the field (if they have the power to now suspend him for 2 games, why the fuck wouldn't they just ban him before the game?).

I am sure there are others, but I can't bother at this point - too annoyed at this outcome.  Maybe there is no ideal solution at this point - but there were ways to avoid this in the build up.  Bottom line is that FG got to hand out a 3-0 win, at their discretion.  The idea that a regional minnow can do this in our regional championship, and that our governing body was unwilling to do anything to prevent it (while knowing well in advance about the possibility) is laughable.

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11 minutes ago, Addona said:

After seeing results NOT go our way these past 2 days (i.e., Mexico not beating Jamaica and the US not winning by at least 2-3 goals over Mart.), I've changed my mind: we need to field a very strong line-up.  If Arfield / Vitoria picks up a yellow, and/or anyone can't go in the QF because of fatigue, then so be it.  I would go with this tonight:

Borjan

Petrasso - Jako - Vitoria - MDJ

Arfield - Piette - Bernier

Ricketts - Cav - Hoilett

That still means that MDJ, Bernier, Ricketts, and Cav are all rotating into the starting 11, so we still have some very fresh legs. Depending on the scoreline, subs could be:  Davies for Hoillett around minute 60, Teibert for Bernier, and AJH for Cav.

 

I have also revised my position on Arfield.  Not for the reason you cited, but because he seems most likely to Roy-Keane one of those Hondurans into the next life. 

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7 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:
  • Letting the on-field result stand since CONCACAF did nothing whatsoever to actually prevent the event from occurring.
  • CONCACAF actually preventing the event from occurring by simply not allowing Malouda on the field (if they have the power to now suspend him for 2 games, why the fuck wouldn't they just ban him before the game?).

Malouda is named in the official FG squad on CONCACAF's own site: http://www.goldcup.org/en/gold-cup/teams/2017/4960#tab_team%3Droster

They've brought their own tournament into disrepute by allowing Malouda to even be there and now Honduras receives a free win that they didn't deserve. Its so ridiculous.

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Obviously if we win/tie tonight we are through but...

...if we lose, what I can gather looking at the groups we would be through if either Martinique or El Salvador lose in their upcoming game. If both win/tie then it's going to come down to GD for 3rd place rankings. So obviously if we were to lose, losing by 1 goal would be much much better than losing by 2.

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My general take is that Malouda should have been allowed to play. I get that it can seem silly but CONCACAF needs more competition and I actually think it is neat that CONCACAF had traditionally given these territories an opportunity to play some of their best athletes.

Malouda was born and raised in French Guiana. He still lives there and will probably become a statesman in the country. He is a national hero, but FIFA rules meant he could only officially play for France. French Guiana waited the previously required 5 years but you know, us big North American giants couldn't handle being beat by "non-FIFA" members. So we killed that rule. It is interesting that Malouda is now suspended. I imagine that he won't be playing the final Gold Cup game which will be interesting for Costa Rica. Costa Rica needs to win or draw that game. 

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5 minutes ago, mrstepp817 said:

Take care of business tonight and it doesn't matter....just need to get a result....

This. Our team just tied the best team in the tournament (yup i'm biased). I am confident we can get a result

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4 hours ago, maplebanana said:

Well, as if I needed more motivation to hate Honduras:

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/07/14/concacaf-issues-florent-malouda-ruling-french-guiana-forfeit-gold-cup-game

It's simple for us now. We need a win or a draw to claim 2nd (FG need to get a result for us to get 1st). A loss and we can still go through in 3rd place with 4 pts, but we have to hope for a Panama win over Martinique and/or a Jamaica win over El Salvador so that at least one group B/C 3rd place team finishes with 3 pts.

I find it incredible that they took this long to come out with a decision that they basically said they were going to do ahead of time if this happened. And then they issue the decision in the middle of the night!

As for the scenario mentioned in that article, a 1-0 loss by us tonight (or any loss by one goal) and a draw between Jamaica and El Salvador would see us through (or a Jamaican win or an El Salvador win unless it is something like 4-3 so that Jamaica would still have 4 points but would then match our goal differential).

In any event, Canada now gets to be even further inspired to go out and get a result.

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There was no good way to settle this after the game started with Malouda on the field. The damage had already been done by that point. Hopefully they fix the broken system before the next tournament. The 2 game ban is confusing. If Canada weren't in this tournament I'd kind of want FG to get a big win tonight, go through as a 3rd place finisher, win their quarter-final and then play Malouda in the semi-final after his "ban" would have expired.

No good way to settle this, but I think they made the best choice given the circumstances (ie: the fact that they screwed up long ago and didn't correct the problem before Malouda played in the game). Giving 3-0 wins to the other teams in the group would also not be fair, in particular to the 3rd place finishers in the other groups (maybe this will also spur changes to not have inter-group tie-breakers), and giving Honduras 0 goal differential rather than +3 for the game wouldn't be fair either, especially if say Costa Rica beats FG by multiple goals tonight. If two teams beat a team big, and a third team has to play that team with ineligible players and they are only awarded a 1-0 win, then that hurts the victim.

Anyways, really hoping we win the game tonight and win our group. We will know what we need to win the group since the CR v FG game is first. If we are still on 4 points after tonight, then I'll start worrying about the other 2 groups. So many scenarios right now it's tough to keep them all straight.

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I don't know how FIFA player eligibility rules can prevent Malouda from playing if French Guiana is not a FIFA member. Really, no French Guiana player is eligible under FIFA rules as none of them have a French Guiana passport, etc. 

Concacaf now has ruled on a fantasy, theoretical basis: IF French Guiana was a FIFA member and was subject to their rules, then Malouda wouldn't be able to play for them, so he can't play for them now.

Insane.

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