Ideas how to generate revenue

[Red Renaissance]

Very curious if community/supporter-owned teams would work. What if- for a price of lets say $500/ year. You have the option of receiving season tickets as well as being an "owner" of the team. Supporters can own somewhere between 33-51%. Gives you exclusive rights to vote on thing such as board members, general direction of the club. $500 x 1000 people would generate $500,000. I know Eskimoes, Blue Bombers and Rough Riders have a community owned model wonder how well it works for them. All clubs in Argentina are "supporter-owned" and thats what keeps about 75% of the clubs alive

[ted]

^ and the German clubs too.

[Complete Homer]

I'm mostly curious to see what is meant by ticket sales not being the primary revenue generator... 

My guess is that the Canadian equivalent to SUM will be subsidizing the league with outside revenue from the CSA. Might not be the most popular idea, but it might be the key part of the business model that finally attracted the necessary investment 

Only other explanation would be banking on a generous TV contract, but that doesn't seem very likely. 

[Dub Narcotic]

MLS is famously kept alive by franchise fees and Mexican and US national team broadcast rights (in that order) via SUM in the states. Canadian SUM is being looked at it the same way, but there's no lucrative Mexico equivalent that will provide that same cash cow.

[ironcub14]

29 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

I'm mostly curious to see what is meant by ticket sales not being the primary revenue generator... 

My guess is that the Canadian equivalent to SUM will be subsidizing the league with outside revenue from the CSA. Might not be the most popular idea, but it might be the key part of the business model that finally attracted the necessary investment 

Only other explanation would be banking on a generous TV contract, but that doesn't seem very likely. 

Corporate sponsorships is considered a big component in NASL/USL. There was a great article about breakdown of revenues at USSF D2 level on Midfield Press I think it was last week. Just off top of my head, tickets 33%, sponsorships 33%, merch and food/beverages 33%, something like that. I'm probably forgetting one or two key components.

[ironcub14]

Found the article, it was from Peter Wilt talking about the NISA that's going to nestle in at D3 in partnership with NASL and NPSL. I'd like to think Wilt is somehow helping contribute to CPL somehow as well in the background, would be nice. The info below alone could nestle nicely into the lower end of the scale for CPL clubs, and be used as a general quick financial background.

---

"Operating expenses can be as low as $1.5M per year, whereas a higher end budget for this league is $3.0M per year.  We believe the lower end model can be successful for clubs that can sell 3000 tickets per game and be moderately successful with corporate sponsorships.

At the lower end budget, you will need to sell 3000 tickets per game over 15 home matches at an average price of $16 per ticket.  That would generate $750,000 in ticket sales revenues.  The other major revenue category will be corporate sponsorships, which you would need to get around $800,000 revenue from.  There will also be some additional revenues from ancillary stadium sales, merchandise and soccer camps that should add up to about $300,000.  So on the low end, you could have revenues of about $1.8M against expenses around $1.5M.  If you are going to operate at a higher budget, teams will need 4000 to 5000 in ticket sales per match, and sponsorship would need to be between $1 million to $1.5 million to break even operationally.  Average ticket price will be variable based on market, but this gives a general sense of the business challenge and opportunity in NISA."

http://midfieldpress.com/2017/06/06/exclusive-the-national-independent-soccer-association-nisa-a-new-division-iii-professional-soccer-league-expects-to-launch-in-2018/

[Complete Homer]

^Yeah, I know that Peter Wilt's group has at least consulted on one matter regarding CPL, wouldn't be surprised if they were a resource for the CPL (especially early days for the gridiron-oriented TiCats front office) 

[Juan]

I would have no issue paying $500.00 for an annual membership that includes season tickets, a sliver of the ownership and voting rights on the general direction of the club.

In terms of a TV deal, TSN has lost a lot of sports with the NHL and Blue Jays moving to Sportsnet but they've been able to maintain a strong soccer presence. I can see TSN & Bell/CTV playing a huge role in providing revenue to the league from TV/online exposure but in the initial years, it wouldn't be as lucrative for the league. If every single CanPL match can be televised to a national audience through CTV & TSN and they ensure that none of the games overlap, you'll find that a lot more people would watch more matches.

IN terms of kit sponsorship, I would hope that each team can find their own local sponsor rather then one sponsor for the entire league.

 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

On 6/13/2017 at 9:44 AM, Red Renaissance said:

Very curious if community/supporter-owned teams would work. What if- for a price of lets say $500/ year. You have the option of receiving season tickets as well as being an "owner" of the team. Supporters can own somewhere between 33-51%. Gives you exclusive rights to vote on thing such as board members, general direction of the club. $500 x 1000 people would generate $500,000. I know Eskimoes, Blue Bombers and Rough Riders have a community owned model wonder how well it works for them. All clubs in Argentina are "supporter-owned" and thats what keeps about 75% of the clubs alive

this would be awesome.  I hope they at least put the option out there for supporters to purchase shares right off the bat.

[MtlMario]

I know it's not going to happen because you would need somebody with nuts and lots of $$$ but imagine Ronaldo signs for a club in CPL. Instant recognition of league, sales of merchandise through the roof, packed stadiums from Halifax to Victoria and which player could ever say "that league is not good enough for me".

 

"They say I'm  a dreamer but I'm not the only one, hope one day you'll join us and the ..........................."

Now I'll wait for some responses.

PS. I know he would have be willing to come here in the first place.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

2 hours ago, MtlMario said:

I know it's not going to happen because you would need somebody with nuts and lots of $$$ but imagine Ronaldo signs for a club in CPL. Instant recognition of league, sales of merchandise through the roof, packed stadiums from Halifax to Victoria and which player could ever say "that league is not good enough for me".

 

"They say I'm  a dreamer but I'm not the only one, hope one day you'll join us and the ..........................."

Now I'll wait for some responses.

PS. I know he would have be willing to come here in the first place.

can't see it happening anytime soon, but maybe in 5+ yrs

[dyslexic nam]

On June 16, 2017 at 0:58 PM, Juan said:

I would have no issue paying $500.00 for an annual membership that includes season tickets, a sliver of the ownership and voting rights on the general direction of the club.

In terms of a TV deal, TSN has lost a lot of sports with the NHL and Blue Jays moving to Sportsnet but they've been able to maintain a strong soccer presence. I can see TSN & Bell/CTV playing a huge role in providing revenue to the league from TV/online exposure but in the initial years, it wouldn't be as lucrative for the league. If every single CanPL match can be televised to a national audience through CTV & TSN and they ensure that none of the games overlap, you'll find that a lot more people would watch more matches.

IN terms of kit sponsorship, I would hope that each team can find their own local sponsor rather then one sponsor for the entire league.

 

Regarding Bell, I wonder if something like this is possible.  The reality is, they have been taking a PR shit-kicking with folks who are mad as hell about their bundling strategies, their ignoring of CRTC skinny-cable decisions, and the general gouging they have been doing to their consumers.  With more and more people cutting the cord, and live sports being one of the things that keeps their remaining subscribers tethered to their cable bill, a CPL sponsorship/Tv deal might not be entirely out to lunch.  It would be a relatively small cost compared to the other pro league rights, would be strongly supportive of Canadian footy (and thus earn some much-needed goodwill from footy fans), and could probably be structured to give them some potentially valuable broadcasting rights/options over the long term if the league really finds an audience.  

A guy can dream, right?

[ReedOnTheGrand]

On 6/19/2017 at 9:05 PM, dyslexic nam said:

Regarding Bell, I wonder if something like this is possible.  The reality is, they have been taking a PR shit-kicking with folks who are mad as hell about their bundling strategies, their ignoring of CRTC skinny-cable decisions, and the general gouging they have been doing to their consumers.  With more and more people cutting the cord, and live sports being one of the things that keeps their remaining subscribers tethered to their cable bill, a CPL sponsorship/Tv deal might not be entirely out to lunch.  It would be a relatively small cost compared to the other pro league rights, would be strongly supportive of Canadian footy (and thus earn some much-needed goodwill from footy fans), and could probably be structured to give them some potentially valuable broadcasting rights/options over the long term if the league really finds an audience.  

A guy can dream, right?

          A TV deal has been underrated in this thread as far as revenue goes. I can't find any numbers on how much TSN and TVA pays for MLS rights but in the states MLS makes 90 Million/year. Now the CPL won't get anywhere near that, especially at first. I imagine the TV deal(assuming there is one) will be(at first) short, I'd say optimistically 5-8 million/year and likely between 2-5 for the first year(maybe less). Sol let's say it's 3 million for the first year. The league keeps 1/4 since it has costs, now we're at 2.25M, divide for the original 6(the TV deal would likely be higher with more teams), each team would have 375k of broadcast revenue. 

         I think a streaming service similar to MLS live but without blackouts(TSN/TVS would want a piece if this was allowed) would also be great for fans and to generate some revenue. It could also replace TV deals as I think it could generate more revenue but would be much worse for casual growth and soccer culture surrounding pubs. Lets throw some numbers anyways, $50 for rights to watch every match in HD no exceptions, let's say 75k subs(0.2% of canadians); that would generate 3.75M. Now the problem is they would need to figure out broadcasting which would cost a lot.

[harrycoyster]

28 minutes ago, ReedOnTheGrand said:

          A TV deal has been underrated in this thread as far as revenue goes. I can't find any numbers on how much TSN and TVA pays for MLS rights but in the states MLS makes 90 Million/year. Now the CPL won't get anywhere near that, especially at first. I imagine the TV deal(assuming there is one) will be(at first) short, I'd say optimistically 5-8 million/year and likely between 2-5 for the first year(maybe less). Sol let's say it's 3 million for the first year. The league keeps 1/4 since it has costs, now we're at 2.25M, divide for the original 6(the TV deal would likely be higher with more teams), each team would have 375k of broadcast revenue. 

         I think a streaming service similar to MLS live but without blackouts(TSN/TVS would want a piece if this was allowed) would also be great for fans and to generate some revenue. It could also replace TV deals as I think it could generate more revenue but would be much worse for casual growth and soccer culture surrounding pubs. Lets throw some numbers anyways, $50 for rights to watch every match in HD no exceptions, let's say 75k subs(0.2% of canadians); that would generate 3.75M. Now the problem is they would need to figure out broadcasting which would cost a lot.

We know that MLS makes roughly $25 million from non-domestic TV contracts, it unclear how much of that in Canada, but I'd doubt it's even half. A national CPL TV deal for any significant money is unlikely. MLS didn't make money on their TV deal until 2004 and the league's current ratings in Canada don't bode well for the CPL. The NASL pays money on a per game basis to get their games on national American television. The USL has a deal with ESPN estimated at around $5 million a season, but that's for 30 teams, in the States, with MLS backing.

It's likely that CPL teams will sign very small local deals and sell the rights to its biggest games on a per game basis or sign a very TV company friendly agreement (maybe even give the rights away for free) in exchange for guaranteed exposure. The league needs to have a proof of concept season before anybody throws 7 figures at TV rights. 

[ReedOnTheGrand]

7 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

A national TV deal for any significant money is unlikely. MLS didn't make money on their TV deal until 2004. The NASL pays money on a per game basis to get their games on national American television. The USL has a deal with ESPN estimated at around $5 million a season, but that's for 30 teams, in the States, with MLS backing.

It's likely that CPL teams will sign very small local deals and sell the rights to its biggest games on a per game basis or sign a very TV company friendly agreement (maybe even give the rights away for free) in exchange for guaranteed exposure. The league needs to have a proof of concept season before anybody throws 7 figures at TV rights. 

I don't think 3 million for tv rights is unrealistic even for a first season. One reason is it being canadian content means it fulfils Cancon requirements. The league is also going to be largely backed by groups who already work with Canadian networks(CFL and NHL ownership groups), so they know how things go down and have a foot already in the door. I actually would prefer if a portion of the rights were held by small local networks. Having a Quebec based team will have huge implications as the only other market that would be interested in french broadcasting would be Ottawa. 

Also on the USL-ESPN deal, it's a 30 team league with MLS backing but it's also only 12 games this season according to USLs website. If 12 games in a D2 league with farm team brings in 5 million USD I'm pretty sure twice as many games in the CPL could gather 3 million.

I'd actually prefer if they went the streaming way because I don't have cable but i think TV is great for casuals. 

[harrycoyster]

17 minutes ago, ReedOnTheGrand said:

I don't think 3 million for tv rights is unrealistic even for a first season. One reason is it being canadian content means it fulfils Cancon requirements. The league is also going to be largely backed by groups who already work with Canadian networks(CFL and NHL ownership groups), so they know how things go down and have a foot already in the door. I actually would prefer if a portion of the rights were held by small local networks. Having a Quebec based team will have huge implications as the only other market that would be interested in french broadcasting would be Ottawa. 

Also on the USL-ESPN deal, it's a 30 team league with MLS backing but it's also only 12 games this season according to USLs website. If 12 games in a D2 league with farm team brings in 5 million USD I'm pretty sure twice as many games in the CPL could gather 3 million.

I'd actually prefer if they went the streaming way because I don't have cable but i think TV is great for casuals. 

We will see I guess, it's really a hard thing to predict. The USL deal is for 20 games over-the-air, mostly shown on ESPNU. It also includes the rights to all other games (not including the US Open Cup) on ESPN3/WatchESPN, ESPN's online channels, unless they are being shown by local TV networks. Additionally, the deal gave ESPN the right of first refusal on broadcasting US Open Cup games in USL stadiums, which is a clause about to pay off big time as tomorrow's Chicago Fire v FC Cincinnati will likely have a larger audience than most MLS games. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

58 minutes ago, ReedOnTheGrand said:

...The league is also going to be largely backed by groups who already work with Canadian networks(CFL and NHL ownership groups),...

Who are the NHL groups that are on board now that the Winnipeg team are run by the Blue Bombers rather than True North, there appears to be no Calgary Flames/Stampeders involvement and TFC II are not welcome? What appears to be unfolding at the moment is somewhat different from what was being rumoured in terms of ownership and market size. Anything obtained from Canadian networks should be viewed as a bonus if matchups like Halifax vs Saskatoon or K/W vs Fraser Valley are involved. Startup leagues tend to have to pay to get their games broadcast rather than the money flowing in the opposite direction until corporate interest in purchasing time for commercials has been clearly demonstrated. Paid attendance and other game day revenue streams are what make or break leagues like this in the early years.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

On 2017/06/13 at 6:53 PM, Dub Narcotic said:

...Canadian SUM is being looked at it the same way, but there's no lucrative Mexico equivalent that will provide that same cash cow.

Also worth noting that a Canadian SUM may involve MLS and be an extension of mainstream SUM rather than anything related to CPL given the joint 2026 World Cup hosting bid means that Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver and stadia used by the three MLS franchises are more likely locations for the ten games involved than Winnipeg and Hamilton.

[Complete Homer]

49 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Also worth noting that a Canadian SUM may involve MLS and be an extension of mainstream SUM rather than anything related to CPL given the joint 2026 World Cup hosting bid means that Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver and stadia used by the three MLS franchises are more likely locations for the ten games involved than Winnipeg and Hamilton.

The only time C-SUM has ever been mentioned has been in the same breath as CPL

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Are you referring to Victor Montagliani or Duane Rollins on that? My understanding is that it was set up earlier this year based on what the former said but need to do some googling to find it.

Edit: haven't been able to track down the Montagliani thing yet, but there was this on here:

 

[Complete Homer]

20 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Are you referring to Victor Montagliani or Duane Rollins on that? My understanding is that it was set up earlier this year based on what the former said but need to do some googling to find it.

Edit: haven't been able to track down the Montagliani thing yet, but there was this on here:

 

It was in one of Montagliani's radio interviews of I remember correctly. TSN? 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Sounds right to me and agree that CPL was talked about as well in the same answer, but not convinced it was conclusive that the two were directly linked rather than being examples of progress being made by the CSA. Would be interesting to give it a listen again though.

[Complete Homer]

7 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Sounds right to me and agree that CPL was talked about as well in the same answer, but not convinced it was conclusive that the two were directly linked rather than being examples of progress being made by the CSA. Would be interesting to give it a listen again though.

Fairly sure I linked the interview in one of the summary articles. Maybe January or February if I had to guess

[ReedOnTheGrand]

10 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Who are the NHL groups that are on board now that the Winnipeg team are run by the Blue Bombers rather than True North, there appears to be no Calgary Flames/Stampeders involvement and TFC II are not welcome? What appears to be unfolding at the moment is somewhat different from what was being rumoured in terms of ownership and market size. Anything obtained from Canadian networks should be viewed as a bonus if matchups like Halifax vs Saskatoon or K/W vs Fraser Valley are involved. Startup leagues tend to have to pay to get their games broadcast rather than the money flowing in the opposite direction until corporate interest in purchasing time for commercials has been clearly demonstrated. Paid attendance and other game day revenue streams are what make or break leagues like this in the early years.

I heard whispers in the distance of Oilers owners and flames owners involvement. Nothing definite, honestly if there's no money in broadcasting then streaming is the way to go. Many canadian soccer fans are young and don't/can't afford cable.

[SpecialK]

 Via rail  as a sponsor-  they could do promotions for supporter groups,  for example if you had 40- 50+ people from a supportive group you could rent out a car for X amount of dollars. Also have CPL logos on the trains like Canada 150. 

Via rail goes to pretty much every  potential CPL city  and if high speed rail comes soon ( wishful thinking haha ). It wouldn't long trips for supporters.