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8 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

I'm less inclined towards playoffs, more inclined towards two regional divisions and the winners of the divisions play in a 2 leg final. Especially when the league is starting. One of the biggest complaints people have about the CFL is the fact that you have 9 teams and more then half (6) make the playoffs.

yea, I can't stand this about NHL as well, although it does serve a purpose(more accessible to the casual fan)

if we do opt for regional, the benefit of this is I feel like it would make it easier to get smaller market teams in - assuming we weighted the schedule regionally, which I would assume would be the point of this.  I've said it before, but I only see the need for making one big cross country road trip per season and the rest of your away games being within division.  But it does kind of depend on which teams we end up having how realistic this is.

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On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎04 at 11:29 AM, yellowsweatygorilla said:

I am not sure putting Halifax in with Victoria is a good idea though. Ideally, I think we have West, Ontario, East (Quebec + Maritime) ... though it doesn't look like we'll get enough teams in East. I'd throw in Ottawa and hope there is two teams from Quebec.. unless someone is interested in Kingston or Moncton joins.

If you look at the schedules from the CFL with 9 teams, even if you split the league in 2 conferences, teams pretty much play each other more often then we think.
 
As you can see, it's a bit all over the place regardless of conferences.
 
CPL will most likely be the same, however, with the league wanting to reach 16 teams, it's safe to assume that most of those teams would be within the Quebec-Windsor Corridor
  • most densely populated and heavily industrialized region of Canada, contains over half of the country's population with 18 Million
  • Air travel? Under 2h hours with 1 stop anywhere in the corridor
  • Trains? Under 4h30 hours Windsor-Toronto (High speed train planned that could cut that number by half)/ Toronto-Montreal-Ottawa is under 5 hours and Montreal-Quebec City is under 4 hours. With Via Rail planning dedicated corridors (HFR) "High Frequency Rail", you could shed at least 1 hour between Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal and their are plans to speed up Montreal-Quebec City. By the way, Via Rail has plans to give commuter train service to Halifax Metro area (Google it)
  • Anything within the GTA would be buses as the trips would be so short.
One could argue that more teams would actually make it easier on the scheduling and overall costs assuming all 16 teams are stable. The Quebec-Windsor corridor would heavily compensate the high cost of flying west and going to the Maritimes. Let's not forget that teams from the West or Maritimes visiting teams in the corridor would most likely tour that corridor before going back or farther away.
 
CFL Travel Costs
  • Travel costs for franchises will be in the $700,000+ range. This is based on the Edmonton Eskimos 2016 financial statements showing Away game costs of $753,995 (12 games, two to Calgary) in 2016 and $713,000 (11 games, including Grey Cup, two to Calgary) in 2015. It is assumed this includes flights and hotels and possibly also meals and player per diems.
Safe to assume that it would be cheaper (way cheaper ?) for CPL by travelling with less players and less equipment.
 
My point is that CPL could works as single table league, I see no evidence why it couldn't work. Contrarily to the US where the population is all over the place, half of Canada lives in the Quebec-Windsor corridor.
Edited by Ansem

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1 minute ago, Ansem said:
If you look at the schedules from the CFL with 9 teams, even if you split the league in 2 conferences, teams pretty much play each other more often then we think.
 
As you can see, it's a bit all over the place regardless of conferences.
 
CPL will most likely be the same, however, with the league wanting to reach 16 teams, it's safe to assume that half of those teams would be within the Quebec-Windsor Corridor
  • most densely populated and heavily industrialized region of Canada, contains over half of the country's population with 18 Million
  • Air travel? Under 2h hours with 1 stop anywhere in the corridor
  • Trains? Under 4h30 hours Windsor-Toronto (High speed train planned that could cut that number by half)/ Toronto-Montreal-Ottawa is under 5 hours and Montreal-Quebec City is under 4 hours. With Via Rail planning dedicated corridors (HFR) "High Frequency Rail", you could shed at least 1 hour between Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal and their are plans to speed up Montreal-Quebec City. By the way, Via Rail has plans to give commuter train service to Halifax Metro area (Google it)
  • Anything within the GTA would be buses as the trips would be so short.
One could argue that more teams would actually make it easier on the scheduling and overall costs assuming all 16 teams are stable. The Quebec-Windsor corridor would heavily compensate the high cost of flying west and going to the Maritimes. Let's not forget that teams from the West or Maritimes visiting teams in the corridor would most likely tour that corridor before going back or farther away.
 
CFL Travel Costs
  • Travel costs for franchises will be in the $700,000+ range. This is based on the Edmonton Eskimos 2016 financial statements showing Away game costs of $753,995 (12 games, two to Calgary) in 2016 and $713,000 (11 games, including Grey Cup, two to Calgary) in 2015. It is assumed this includes flights and hotels and possibly also meals and player per diems.
Safe to assume that it would be cheaper (way cheaper ?) for CPL by travelling with less players and less equipment.
 
My point is that CPL could works as single table work, I see no evidence why it couldn't work. Contrarily to the US where the population is all over the place, half of Canada lives in the Quebec-Windsor corridor.

Just wondering, how much more expensive are travel costs between Victoria and say Saskatoon than Victoria and Halifax?

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My guess is that travel will be around $500,000 per year.  CFL teams cost $700,000 with 62-65 seats per game for a CFL roster.  With CPL, it will probably be 30 people with roster, coaches, therapists etc.   I'd also assume more soccer games in a CPL season than a CFL season.

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5 minutes ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

Just wondering, how much more expensive are travel costs between Victoria and say Saskatoon than Victoria and Halifax?

It's cheaper the more in advance you book the flights so let's take the first Saturday in August,

According to Google Flight for August 5th to August 6

Victoria-Saskatoon = $426 (direct)

Victoria-Halifax = $782 (1 stop)

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42 minutes ago, DigzTFC said:

My guess is that travel will be around $500,000 per year.  CFL teams cost $700,000 with 62-65 seats per game for a CFL roster.  With CPL, it will probably be 30 people with roster, coaches, therapists etc.   I'd also assume more soccer games in a CPL season than a CFL season.

Yeah, but each team only play 5-10 games which require flights. Would that be the case for the CPL?

Sure, less due to volume, but potentially more depending on number of trips.

Edited by -Hammer-

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Quick note: Anyone else going to be watching how TLN do ratings wise for the International Champions Cup? Them and their sister station Euro Sport World have exclusive rights to the competition and are airing 21 of the games. I'm curious to see how they do viewership wise with it.

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5 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

Yeah, but each team only play 5-10 games which require flights. Would that be the case for the CPL?

Sure, less due to volume, but potentially more depending on number of trips.

If teams play twice in a week, perhaps they could just stay longer on the road?

example: Victoria plays Kitchener-Waterloo on Saturday. They stay in Ontario to play Hamilton on Tuesday and then they go back? Only a chartered bus would be required for that week and you play 2 games.

It would come down to be creative with scheduling until the league gets more teams

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On 6/4/2017 at 10:23 AM, Macksam said:

Long term I think this league would be Ontario heavy so maybe the conferences could be Ontario and Rest of Canada? Subsidize the travel costs ofcourse.

Sure, whatever makes the most sense when the time comes. Would be nice to be in that position!

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I would like to see no playoffs - and really how much additional revenue will a total max of 6 post season truly bring when there will be travel costs involved? 
Would rather see a Cup competition to run along with the season- one-off quarters, semis and perhaps a 2 legged final? 
If playoffs are absolutely necessary, at least give the first place team a bye to final, with second and third playing a semi. Would make coming in first more of a reward. At least until there are more than 6 teams

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7 minutes ago, Red Renaissance said:

I would like to see no playoffs - and really how much additional revenue will a total max of 6 post season truly bring when there will be travel costs involved? 
Would rather see a Cup competition to run along with the season- one-off quarters, semis and perhaps a 2 legged final? 
If playoffs are absolutely necessary, at least give the first place team a bye to final, with second and third playing a semi. Would make coming in first more of a reward. At least until there are more than 6 teams

yea, it's so hard to talk about format when we have no idea how many teams there are even going to be.  6 teams is a world of difference from even something like 10 teams, let alone something like 16.

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I don't have strong feelings on formats. I like regular season championship, playoffs, cup competition. As such, I don't understand the mindset of people (majority of soccer fans it seems) who absolutely hate playoffs, especially if too many teams are involved, but advocate for a cup. In my mind a cup competition is essentially playoffs with everybody instead of just the top x teams. Is it the seeding that is a turn off? Is it the timing (end of season vs during the season)? Or is it the importance that is put on it and the devaluing of the regular season? The difference in my opinion is mostly semantics.

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12 hours ago, Kent said:

I don't have strong feelings on formats. I like regular season championship, playoffs, cup competition. As such, I don't understand the mindset of people (majority of soccer fans it seems) who absolutely hate playoffs, especially if too many teams are involved, but advocate for a cup. In my mind a cup competition is essentially playoffs with everybody instead of just the top x teams. Is it the seeding that is a turn off? Is it the timing (end of season vs during the season)? Or is it the importance that is put on it and the devaluing of the regular season? The difference in my opinion is mostly semantics.

I tend to agree.  Maybe it is just my desperation for all of this to work out and actually happen, but I am pretty ambivalent on Cup vs Playoffs.  In most Euro countries, they choose an overall "winner" based on total season points.  But the Cup winners (sometimes at least 1 Cup for league and 1 open Cup for the whole country) also come with some unique prestige that often isn't easy to characterize in the context of league results.  Win the EPL but crash out of the  FA Cup?  Its all good.  Get 3rd in the league but with the FA CUP? Not as good - but hey at least we hoisted the Cup.  Missed out on a Champion's League spot, but won the League Cup?  Not so sure, but we will sure as hell try to sell it like a victory to the supporters.  Et cetera.  In the context of that kind of muddied world of glory and achievement in "mature" footy nations, it is difficult to accept categorical statements that playoffs have no place in soccer (not directed at anyone in particular - just editorializing).  It really does seem to be a case of do what works, and much like pro/rel, I don't feel that we need to do it just because Euro country X does it that way. 

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the nice thing about playoffs is it allows the super casual fan to pick a time to pay attention.  Like the hardcore basketball/baseball/football fans who don't hate soccer can pay attention at the end while they just aren't likely to tune in for anything that runs the entire season, whether it be a cup or the league.

Then again, there is something about having every game matter that I don't think should be understated.  On some level, the entire european season is "playoffs"

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Another thing to touch upon- I think it would be neat if teams had to qualify for the Canadian Championship. Top 3/4 (in a 6 team league) or Top 5/6/7 (in an 8/10 league). This would give the bottom teams/fans something to play for until the very end even if not in league/playoff contention. I dont think there is a need for every team to qualify to Canada Cup when these teams are already playing eachother often. should be a best of CanPL vs MLS teams style format instead of US Open Cup format. 

 

Edited by Argentina_111

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11 minutes ago, Red Renaissance said:

Another thing to touch upon- I think it would be neat if teams had to qualify for the Canadian Championship. Top 3/4 (in a 6 team league) or Top 5/6/7 (in an 8/10 league). This would give the bottom teams/fans something to play for until the very end even if not in league/playoff contention. I dont think there is a need for every team to qualify to Canada Cup when these teams are already playing eachother often. should be a best of CanPL vs MLS teams style format instead of US Open Cup format. 

 

Thing is, that systemically place CPL subservient to MLS, don't think that in the best interest of the league or the CSA. If CPL is tier 1, you have to consistently treat it as such 

As for playoffs, I'm in favour but maybe wait until there are at least 8 teams (or a single playoff series between the conference winners). 4/6 teams qualifying would make the season a bit weak 

Edited by Complete Homer

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1 hour ago, Red Renaissance said:

Another thing to touch upon- I think it would be neat if teams had to qualify for the Canadian Championship. Top 3/4 (in a 6 team league) or Top 5/6/7 (in an 8/10 league). This would give the bottom teams/fans something to play for until the very end even if not in league/playoff contention. I dont think there is a need for every team to qualify to Canada Cup when these teams are already playing eachother often. should be a best of CanPL vs MLS teams style format instead of US Open Cup format. 

 

I disagree.  The whole point of the Canadian championship is to have as many teams from as many leagues as possible(IMO).  Making some of our top teams qualify would limit the chances for lower div teams to pull off a Cinderella story and beat a giant.

all of our CPL/MLS teams should be considered giants, relative to some of the other teams we'll start allowing in V-cup.

 

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Just now, matty said:

VCup post CPL exists
Round 1: L1O vs PSLQ
Round 2: Round 1 winner + CPL 5 and 6 + MLS 3
Round 3:  Round 2 winner + CPL 1-4 + MLS Top 2

LOL as if the 3rd ranked MLS team is going to come in before ANY CanPL teams.

 

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31 minutes ago, matty said:

VCup post CPL exists
Round 1: L1O vs PSLQ
Round 2: Round 1 winner + CPL 5 and 6 + MLS 3
Round 3:  Round 2 winner + CPL 1-4 + MLS Top 2

Honestly, I would even open it up slightly more and allow the top two PLSQ and L1O squads in, but baby steps I suppose.  I could live with this.  Although I imagine ted is probably right, at least at first.

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1 hour ago, ted said:

LOL as if the 3rd ranked MLS team is going to come in before ANY CanPL teams.

 

The CSA gets to decide the format (as far as I know, but maybe the pro teams have some input?). It's in the CSA's best interest to treat it as D1 just like MLS, and to not give MLS any baked in advantage in the tournament. I will be disappointed if any CPL team starts earlier than MLS teams. The only exception that wouldn't be terrible is the Champion getting a bye.

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7 hours ago, Red Renaissance said:

Another thing to touch upon- I think it would be neat if teams had to qualify for the Canadian Championship. Top 3/4 (in a 6 team league) or Top 5/6/7 (in an 8/10 league). This would give the bottom teams/fans something to play for until the very end even if not in league/playoff contention. I dont think there is a need for every team to qualify to Canada Cup when these teams are already playing eachother often. should be a best of CanPL vs MLS teams style format instead of US Open Cup format. 

 

If and when the CPL comes into being, it will BE THE CANADIAN CHAMPIONSHIP.

The CPL winners will be Champions of Canada, just as the EPL winners are Champions of England.

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7 hours ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

Then again, there is something about having every game matter that I don't think should be understated.  On some level, the entire european season is "playoffs"

Two words: nail head.

Every game matters.

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10 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I tend to agree.  Maybe it is just my desperation for all of this to work out and actually happen, but I am pretty ambivalent on Cup vs Playoffs.  In most Euro countries, they choose an overall "winner" based on total season points.  But the Cup winners (sometimes at least 1 Cup for league and 1 open Cup for the whole country) also come with some unique prestige that often isn't easy to characterize in the context of league results.  Win the EPL but crash out of the  FA Cup?  Its all good.  Get 3rd in the league but with the FA CUP? Not as good - but hey at least we hoisted the Cup.  Missed out on a Champion's League spot, but won the League Cup?  Not so sure, but we will sure as hell try to sell it like a victory to the supporters.  Et cetera.  In the context of that kind of muddied world of glory and achievement in "mature" footy nations, it is difficult to accept categorical statements that playoffs have no place in soccer (not directed at anyone in particular - just editorializing).  It really does seem to be a case of do what works, and much like pro/rel, I don't feel that we need to do it just because Euro country X does it that way. 

(Not having a go "nam", please don't take this personally!)

Ah yes, the North American obsession with ITALL, the trophy that must be awarded every season.

Newsflash: The League Champions have won ITALL. They are the best team. They have proved it comprehensively over an entire season.

But, there can be other important competitions! More trophies to go around! More big games! This is good! For everybody! This should not be hard to understand. Unless of course one is obsessed with and cannot see beyond ITALL.

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