CPL General

[Ansem]

Can't wait for that waiver to expire...

Don't mind me, I accept that 

For now...

Edited February 26, 2023 by Ansem

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

Can't wait for that waiver to expire...

Don't mind me, I accept that 

For now...

The CSA signed a 20 year deal with CSB.  You  might be waiting on a while on that waiver to expire.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I have some bad news for you.  Even with the loss, the review from every Caps fans I've spoken with was that the game was a lot of fun (in the first half), it was the best they've looked in ages (in the first half), and while the final result was poor and left everyone shaking their heads, there's still a sense of optimism.  Last year they started 4 Canadians in the opening match (Cavalini, Teibert, Baldisimo, Hasal) were absolutely horrific losing 4-0, and fans were frustrated before the season had even really begun.  

But if you actually wanted to read more about what it would take to be "Canada's Bilbao": 

https://www.eightysixforever.com/2023/1/1/23534179/the-athletic-bilbao-of-canada

All true. But I mostly felt disgust after that.

[Watchmen]

13 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

All true. But I mostly felt disgust after that.

Yup, bad few minutes.  Still not sold on Vanni as the manager at all.  But the roster shows much more promise than last year and people seem optimistic still.  That's not how it was last year.

Weird stat: Salt Lake is now unbeaten in their last 14 openers, 13 of them on the road.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

The CSA signed a 20 year deal with CSB.  You  might be waiting on a while on that waiver to expire.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Ansem

[Kingston]

On 2/25/2023 at 2:13 PM, SpursFlu said:

I'm also curious to see how CPL football supporter development has gone. Hopefully someday they have a supporter development league. But in the meantime I'm curious to see some data. Like how many people had season tickets to a football team in Canada 10 years ago vs how many do now? 

Taking this question literally:

Going by memory, ten years ago, TFC had around 20 000 season ticket holders while Montreal and Vancouver each had around 15 000.  So a total of about 50 000.

Today, TFC has 23 000.  I'd estimate Montreal and Vancouver at a bit north of 10 000 each.  The CPL teams probably average around 1000 each (considerably more for Halifax, very few for York).  Round the CPL up to a total of 10 000 for a grand total of maybe 55 000.

I'm happy for anyone with better data to correct my numbers.  I suspect my estimates are reasonable for the purpose of answering your question, though. The answer appears to be that roughly the same number of people in Canada had season tickets to a soccer team ten years ago as do today.

 

[SpursFlu]

Thank you for taking it literally. Actually the most interesting number for me assuming it's all correct, is Vancouver. They announced they have around 10k season tickets this year. So a drop off 33% in the past 10 years. Ouch

 

I've noticed and I'm not the only one, Vancouver fc has seemed to have given the Caps and their supporters a kick in the butt. My Caps chat was lighten up for the season opener. All this positivity and optimism is so un Vancouver. It's kinda funny. Where's it all coming from? Lol

[toontownman]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

Thank you for taking it literally. Actually the most interesting number for me assuming it's all correct, is Vancouver. They announced they have around 10k season tickets this year. So a drop off 33% in the past 10 years. Ouch

 

I've noticed and I'm not the only one, Vancouver fc has seemed to have given the Caps and their supporters a kick in the butt. My Caps chat was lighten up for the season opener. All this positivity and optimism is so un Vancouver. It's kinda funny. Where's it all coming from? Lol

Very interested to see what the VFC crowds are like. There seemed to be lots of talk online about fans pledging to walk away from the whitecaps and others switching to support VFC. If everyone went through with those intentions there would be quite a large groundswell fanbase for VFC to launch with and build upon.

[Unnamed Trialist]

58 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Very interested to see what the VFC crowds are like. There seemed to be lots of talk online about fans pledging to walk away from the whitecaps and others switching to support VFC. If everyone went through with those intentions there would be quite a large groundswell fanbase for VFC to launch with and build upon.

Plus I think a lot of parents pressured to take the kids to see the Caps are going to jump at this option. 

If you look at the CEBL basketball crowds in that same Langley complex, they get 2000, had highs over 3000. In an area that's not at all basketball crazy. The team just rebranded to Vancouver btw, largest city bb team and 2nd largest soccer team in the same complex.

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, toontownman said:

Very interested to see what the VFC crowds are like. There seemed to be lots of talk online about fans pledging to walk away from the whitecaps and others switching to support VFC. If everyone went through with those intentions there would be quite a large groundswell fanbase for VFC to launch with and build upon.

My hope is that they pull a Halifax and draw something close to capacity right out of the gate.  It would be great to see a CPL expansion team just kill it from day one and set a template for future expansion teams to follow.

My fear is that they pull a York where existing soccer fans mainly decide to just stay with the Whitecaps and very few new fans are created by the team.  That would be a second data point suggesting sharing markets with MLS is a bad idea.

[SpursFlu]

At first I don't see many if any saying I'm Vancouver fc go get stuffed Whitecaps. I've got season tickets to both myself. I think likely people living in Vancouver, Burnaby, Coquitlam, Richmond will be like screw Vancouver fc what's that nonsense. I think Surrey, Langley, Maple Ridge, Abbotsford will be like I'll check it out and support both. I think likely over time less and less Valley people will support the Caps as long as Vancouver fc show mild success and don't completely stink

 

 

[Cicero]

I have no inside info, but I bet most CPL teams draw 90%+ of their fans from (consistently) less than 15 minutes away. Might be some North Surrey people, maybe some Aldergrovians, but I'd be surprised if there's more than a handful of people from Maple Ridge, Abbotsford or deeper into Surrey.

[Aird25]

8 hours ago, Kingston said:

Today, TFC has 23 000.  I'd estimate Montreal and Vancouver at a bit north of 10 000 each.  The CPL teams probably average around 1000 each (considerably more for Halifax, very few for York).  Round the CPL up to a total of 10 000 for a grand total of maybe 55 000.

I’m quite surprised by those whitecaps and impact numbers. I would’ve expected those and the CPL average to be higher. 

14 minutes ago, Cicero said:

 

I have no inside info, but I bet most CPL teams draw 90%+ of their fans from (consistently) less than 15 minutes away.

 

I’d be incredibly surprised if this were true for Pacific, but I’m also fairly certain the data doesn’t even exist. I’ve probably brought at least 100 different people to games and I’d guess less than 10% lived within a 15 minute drive, let alone 15 minutes by transit or other means 

[SthMelbRed]

2 hours ago, Cicero said:

I have no inside info, but I bet most CPL teams draw 90%+ of their fans from (consistently) less than 15 minutes away. Might be some North Surrey people, maybe some Aldergrovians, but I'd be surprised if there's more than a handful of people from Maple Ridge, Abbotsford or deeper into Surrey.

Fifteen minutes is a very fluid measure.

[Watchmen]

7 hours ago, toontownman said:

Very interested to see what the VFC crowds are like. There seemed to be lots of talk online about fans pledging to walk away from the whitecaps and others switching to support VFC. If everyone went through with those intentions there would be quite a large groundswell fanbase for VFC to launch with and build upon.

I think the people who talked about walking away from the Whitecaps already did it.   Some have gone to VFC (or have been waiting for it's arrival) but I know plenty who just aren't planning to go to any soccer games at all now.

Further, Schuster recently announced that the Whitecaps season ticket holder numbers are up over the previous few years, so the arrival of VFC doesn't seem to be impacting them yet.

One further anecdote: I know of 2 people who secured the cheap $100 tickets, but have no intention of going to most of the games.  A few, for sure (like the opener) but as one put it "maybe 3 or 4 at most".

Anyway, I have no idea what the VFC attendance will be like.  I think it will end up closer to York's numbers, but I guess we'll see.

[Kingston]

11 hours ago, Aird25 said:

I’m quite surprised by those whitecaps and impact numbers. I would’ve expected those and the CPL average to be higher.  

Someone mentioned the Whitecaps actually announcing about 10 000 so I think that number is accurate.

The Montreal number and the CPL numbers are more like guesses but, I think, probably pretty reasonable ones based on the teams' average attendances.  And in the context of SpursFlu's original question, it doesn't change the answer even if my estimates are off by a few thousand.

[Cicero]

9 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Fifteen minutes is a very fluid measure.

It is, but it's kind of a proxy for 'so close I don't really think about travel time'. I would concede that Pacific and Cavalry probably draw more from further, but distance to the stadium is likely limiting their potential fanbase. I'm sure each team has a pretty good idea of this by gathering postal codes during purchases by non-season ticket holders, or surveys.

I'm a good example. I'm a dedicated fan, been to all but maybe two or three Forge home games, but I haven't gotten my lazy ass all the way over to York for an away game, all of 45-50 minutes drive from me.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Cicero

[Pottsy3]

12 hours ago, Cicero said:

I have no inside info, but I bet most CPL teams draw 90%+ of their fans from (consistently) less than 15 minutes away. Might be some North Surrey people, maybe some Aldergrovians, but I'd be surprised if there's more than a handful of people from Maple Ridge, Abbotsford or deeper into Surrey.

I don't think this is true for Forge either. The people I run into at matches seem fairly spread out across the Golden Horseshoe

[Unnamed Trialist]

13 hours ago, Cicero said:

I have no inside info, but I bet most CPL teams draw 90%+ of their fans from (consistently) less than 15 minutes away. Might be some North Surrey people, maybe some Aldergrovians, but I'd be surprised if there's more than a handful of people from Maple Ridge, Abbotsford or deeper into Surrey.

I'm not sure either. But I bet anyone in the Fraser Valley unwilling to drive 30-40 minutes to do pretty well anything is probably married to a cousin and has a live armadillo tied to the radiator.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[Kingston]

13 hours ago, Cicero said:

I have no inside info, but I bet most CPL teams draw 90%+ of their fans from (consistently) less than 15 minutes away. 

I would be very surprised if this is the case.

I do suspect the fan density will be higher closer to the team, but I also suspect a fifteen minute contour line would catch far fewer than half the fans of most teams.  Think about how long most people travel for other forms of entertainment such as catching a movie or going to a particular restaurant to meet friends.  I'm guessing most of those trips are over 15 minutes.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Kingston

[MM3/MM2/MM]

1 hour ago, Kingston said:

I would be very surprised if this is the case.

I do suspect the fan density will be higher closer to the team, but I also suspect a fifteen minute contour line would catch far fewer than half the fans of most teams.  Think about how long most people travel for other forms of entertainment such as catching a movie or going to a particular restaurant to meet friends.  I'm guessing most of those trips are over 15 minutes.

I drive 30 minutes to see ATO and so do a fair # of others in my community (no Public transport).  I would be willing to drive up to an hour on a regular basis to see a team.     In the first 2 season, I had season tickets to TFC, would drive from the Ottawa area, if it was an afternoon game we would come back the same day, evening game, usually stay over, though I do recall arriving home at 2AM a few times.  Sold my weekday tickets to someone on here.  

[Cicero]

3 hours ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

I drive 30 minutes to see ATO and so do a fair # of others in my community (no Public transport).  I would be willing to drive up to an hour on a regular basis to see a team.     In the first 2 season, I had season tickets to TFC, would drive from the Ottawa area, if it was an afternoon game we would come back the same day, evening game, usually stay over, though I do recall arriving home at 2AM a few times.  Sold my weekday tickets to someone on here.  

Well, I may be wrong, maybe way off, but it's also good to remember that people on this board don't represent the average fan. We're all near the top of the list in terms of dedicated fandom. But maybe CPL teams are drawing a couple thousand of those type of people who are willing to travel farther. I kind of doubt it though. Almost everyone around my seats are season seat holders, and all of the ones I've gotten to know are locals except the families of the players. I'd be interested to know what the reality is.

Driving from Ottawa for TFC is next level commitment though, hats off to you...

Edited February 28, 2023 by Cicero

[narduch]

Probably going to see some new refs this season.

I noticed Filip Dujic is doing MLS games now

[Bison44]

Nice to see another guy with CPL experience moving up.  

[toontownman]

18 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Nice to see another guy with CPL experience moving up.  

I hope the league somehow keeps track of all of this. Advocacy wise for markets looking to convince city councils or the general public about the pathways and benefits of the CPL is huge. I heard radio silence when I asked for advocacy previously. The league should have a basic package for potential fan groups to promote the league.

The players and maybe coaches are obvious but refs, analysts, physios , club staff etc. This league is a gateway for lots of people to move up or away across the globe. 

In my experience, when it comes to educating the non soccer fan they can't grasp the enormity of pathways of this sport. The amount of leagues spread across the world that are at the same or higher standard, the champions league/league crossover cups that bring other fans and teams to your home market, the international game. It's a much easier sell we just never make enough of it imo or people dont want to listen. What a CPL team can potentially bring to a city, while extremely unlikely is a route to Champions league and to a world club cup playing the best teams in the league. There just isnt the same cieling as almost every other N.American staple sport. Its a different ball game. Not sure why I'm preaching to the converted here, sorry I got ranty.. also a close shave as auto correct just made ranty randy instead. Hubba hubba.