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8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

It sounds like the initial plan for the revamped Champions League was modified to exclude CanPL clubs from a North American group stage format (that is now being superceded by this Leagues Cup revamp) to a straight knockout format where CanPL teams are probably not expected to linger long if seeding is involved, or maybe I am missing something?

That's your theory? They revamped the whole thing with excluding 2 CPL clubs out of the group stage as the main driver? 

It's all about making the League Cup relevant while MLS having some control on revenues and Liga MX making more money on US soil.

Both leagues have some control on the league cup, they'd have zero control over the group stage. Saying yes to that should kill any talks / attempts of a super league.

Seriously, stop the clumsy theories aimed at fuelling your hyper cynicism of the league. That’s how you lose so much credibility.

Edited by Ansem
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So to sum up there's a NAFU regional qualifying competition in the shape of this revamped Leagues Cup, a new Concacaf Central America Cup and a new Concacaf Caribbean Cup that will be played during the better weather summer months in a similar manner to how the Concacaf League is now when CanPL is active, but CanPL isn't being excluded from the party in any way by being the only Concacaf D1 to not be involved in international competition at that point? Beyond that they are being asked to enter at a 22 club round one even before the round of 16 stage in a format that is likely to be seeded and played as early as late February when it could still easily be -30°C with the wind chill factor somewhere like Edmonton and most CanPL clubs would struggle to put a roster together.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot
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The Canadian Championship is still a thing last time I checked and MLS clubs are still playing in it. That's really on Soccer Canada to come up with something different or similar but knowing them, that'd be asking too much

You're trying to make a case that CPL exclusion was an objective while the simplest explanation is that MLS was desperate to make their league Cup relevant while Liga MX just wants the US exposure and money from the US market.

At the end of the day, Liga MX will keep winning the CCL while MLS might win that league cup or do decently here and there.

Things could change when CPL gets stronger and have more clubs. For a leagues this young to be in this position this early is a good result.

Edited by Ansem
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This is actually great news for the CPL. 2 clubs getting direct access into the Champions League proper.

Plus a 3rd club could qualify via the Voyageurs Cup.

In a knock out format anything can happen.

Also good news is the Champions League will now start in April instead of February. 

The previous format would have made it more difficult for CPL clubs to advance this far.

 

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4 minutes ago, narduch said:

This is actually great news for the CPL. 2 clubs getting direct access into the Champions League proper.

Plus a 3rd club could qualify via the Voyageurs Cup.

In a knock out format anything can happen.

Also good news is the Champions League will now start in April instead of February. 

The previous format would have made it more difficult for CPL clubs to advance this far.

 

I agree and, as the CPL raises its standard, the door will open for the Leagues Cup. 

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5 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Late February is when the Champions League has tended to start in recent years in its current spring format.

Just admit you are wrong and move on.

I know an April start doesn't fit your CPL clubs will be unprepared narrative 

Edited by narduch
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I don't have an anti CPL agenda and what I stated about the timing of the Champions League is factual. TFC played a game at BMO Field in this competition on Feb 27th 2018:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_CONCACAF_Champions_League

and Feb 26th 2019:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_CONCACAF_Champions_League

The Impact played a game at the Big Owe on Feb 26th 2020:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_CONCACAF_Champions_League

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot
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1 minute ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

I don't have an anti CPL agenda and what I stated about the timing of the Champions League is factual. TFC played a game at BMO Field in this competition on Feb 27th 2018:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_CONCACAF_Champions_League

and Feb 26th 2019:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_CONCACAF_Champions_League

Thanks. I`m familiar with the current system.

We are talking about the new format where Concacaf explicitly states spring 2024.

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9 hours ago, Ansem said:

It's all about making the League Cup relevant while MLS having some control on revenues and Liga MX making more money on US soil.

It also brings the tournament more under CONCACAF control, which I'm sure CONCACAF wanted.

9 hours ago, Ansem said:

Both leagues have some control on the league cup, they'd have zero control over the group stage. Saying yes to that should kill any talks / attempts of a super league.

It sounds like talks on the joint league went nowhere this summer, and this tournament was the compromise. But I could see both sides using it as a way to see how a joint league might work in the future, if they were interested. 

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51 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

It also brings the tournament more under CONCACAF control, which I'm sure CONCACAF wanted.

It sounds like talks on the joint league went nowhere this summer, and this tournament was the compromise. But I could see both sides using it as a way to see how a joint league might work in the future, if they were interested. 

No, nothing about this brings it under CONCACAF control. This is a powerplay move by MLS/LIGA MX (NAFU) to make this the premier cup competition in the region. They are essentially making the winner of this tournament the de facto (Not to sound like BBTB/Ozzie) champion of North American soccer. Sure, the winner is going on to the CONCACAF CL, but it will be an after thought not unlike the UEFA CL winner going on to the FIFA Club World Cup.  

Talk of a merger between LIGA MX and MLS is a long-term project and it will be brought out in stages. I actually wouldn't be surprised if a merged North American Super League begins play come 2023 to coincide with this.  

Edited by Macksam
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3 minutes ago, Macksam said:

No, nothing about this brings it under CONCACAF control. This is a powerplay move by MLS/LIGA MX (NAFU) to make this the premier cup competition in the region. They are essentially making the winner of this tournament, not to sound BBTB/Ozzie but the de facto champion of North American soccer. The winner is essentially going on to the CONCACAF CL, which will be an after thought not unlike the UEFA CL winner going onto the FIFA Club World Cup.  

The champions of the League Cup will join the MLS and Liga MX champions to the round of 16. It's not a sure thing that the champion will win CCL everytime. Besides the lack of CPL which is understandable...I don't have a huge issue with it. I actually prefer forcing them to qualify to CCL than being handed over spots to Round of 16.

Also, CONCACAF has some say on that tournament since they have sanctioned it. Should CPL earn their way in there through consistent results, CONCACAF can make it happen. Removing berths to that tournament makes it worthless and Liga MX clubs won't care for it by heavily rotate

 

7 minutes ago, Macksam said:

Talk of a merger between LIGA MX and MLS is a long-term project and it will be brought out in stages. I actually wouldn't be surprised if a merged North American Super League begins play come 2023 to coincide with this. 

If it ever happens, UEFA has to do it first, until then - not happening.

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6 hours ago, longlugan said:

Wow if ever there was an example of the pot calling the kettle black...this might be the most definitive one. Keep digging that hole Ozzie...you're very entertaining.  🤣🤣

Exactly, last time I asked the parrot for a source he couldn't and instead rambled on about it being in a thread somewhere, pathetically weak poster the parrot is.

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7 hours ago, narduch said:

We are talking about the new format where Concacaf explicitly states spring 2024.

Assuming it starts in April, that's still probably a bit rough for the CPL. Early or pre-season under the old format did seem to be a bit rough for the MLS teams, but they benefited from either a) playing definitively lower level teams, or b) playing each other. I don't think the CPL will have this advantage. It hasn't embarrassed its self in the League but I don't think its stood out yet either (granted, it's a very small sample size).  So, I just hope fans enjoy whatever games they get and enjoy the run for however long it goes.

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4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

The champions of the League Cup will join the MLS and Liga MX champions to the round of 16. It's not a sure thing that the champion will win CCL everytime. Besides the lack of CPL which is understandable...I don't have a huge issue with it. I actually prefer forcing them to qualify to CCL than being handed over spots to Round of 16.

Also, CONCACAF has some say on that tournament since they have sanctioned it. Should CPL earn their way in there through consistent results, CONCACAF can make it happen. Removing berths to that tournament makes it worthless and Liga MX clubs won't care for it by heavily rotate

 

If it ever happens, UEFA has to do it first, until then - not happening.

I don't think this impacts the CPL overall one way or another. 

As for the bolded, why does UEFA have to do it first?

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5 minutes ago, Ansem said:

If it ever happens, UEFA has to do it first, until then - not happening.

FIFA spoke out in favour of a joint MLS/Liga MX league. They didn't with the Super League. So, I suspect its more on if MLS/Liga MX/USSF/MFF want it.

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3 minutes ago, Macksam said:

I don't think this impacts the CPL overall one way or another. 

As for the bolded, why does UEFA have to do it first?

FAs don't want it and most clubs except the clubs don't want it either.

 

3 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

FIFA spoke out in favour of a joint MLS/Liga MX league. They didn't with the Super League. So, I suspect its more on if MLS/Liga MX/USSF/MFF want it.

The president was in favor than flip flop on the Super League, FAs, leagues, most clubs and fans are against it.

Just like in Europe, MX and MFF would cave to fan who don't want it nor care about MLS.

All Liga Mx wants is a pie of the US market - which is what the expanded League cup does. Why not get your cake and eat it too (independence and cash) to trade it for lost of control? This would be the NHL all over again

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25 minutes ago, Ansem said:

FAs don't want it and most clubs except the clubs don't want it either.

 

The president was in favor than flip flop on the Super League, FAs, leagues, most clubs and fans are against it.

Just like in Europe, MX and MFF would cave to fan who don't want it nor care about MLS.

All Liga Mx wants is a pie of the US market - which is what the expanded League cup does. Why not get your cake and eat it too (independence and cash) to trade it for lost of control? This would be the NHL all over again

That does not answer why UEFA has to do it first. Yes, their FAs and most of their clubs don't want it but this has nothing to do with them. The opposite is true over here, all LIGA MX and MLS clubs and their respective leagues along with their government bodies seem to be very interested in the idea. 

When it comes to why for Liga MX? Well, the merged league has the potential to become the top league in the world, something Liga MX by itself has no chance of achieving on its own. 

Edited by Macksam
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