CPL General

[Aird25]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I've gone through this in my head from a Spain perspective. 

I personally believe that the best way for a major club or league to get involved with the CPL would be to avoid buying and running a club. 

We have seen with NY City, and I believe we will see with Atlético Ottawa when rivalries start to heat up, that the brand ends up being a rival, and often you want that rival to fail. You may even come to dislike it, when at first you were indifferent. Or, you are a fan already of a rival team (United fans in the US) and are not going to support that one owned by City. Then, you have a problem with a possible shirt deal in your home league, and then the new league having a deal with another company.

As I see it, the best option for CPL from a major European club or league is to put in a few million a year and sponsor the league. The Bundesliga CPL, the FCBarcelona CPL. That means you are appreciated across the board and your brand is present in every match, positively but neutrally.

The other sponsorship or support deal waiting to be made is with youth academies. This is where I feel a major club like Barça or Bayern or United could come in: you put up a relatively low quantity and set up the academy structure, providing a model, resources, training local coaches, and then putting your name on that. The Bayern Munich CPL Academies. That is also a way to support the league from a highly positive and neutral position. Leave aside how you work possible first option on young players, as that is less clear. You would still be forever appreciated by fans across the country. 

Are there examples of a foreign club or league sponsoring another country’s top division? I don’t like the concept 

[Unnamed Trialist]

20 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Are there examples of a foreign club or league sponsoring another country’s top division? I don’t like the concept 

Why? I'm curious.

When the EPL was first branded fans did not like it either, same with the early years of stadium naming rights. 

From the CPL's perspective, you have to go for all the revenue streams you can, and if you associate with football brands that gives you more than a bank or a beer. Your sponsorship partner could support you with quality or expertise in some aspect of the game you are playing.

From the perspective of the sponsoring league or club, you boost your brand in a key emerging market.

[Aird25]

6 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Why? I'm curious.

How would you feel about the Premier League sponsoring La Liga? Or even Barcelona, or Camp Nou? The Premier League's La Liga. Or the Premier League's Camp Nou

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 minute ago, Aird25 said:

How would you feel about the Premier League sponsoring La Liga? Or even Barcelona, or Camp Nou? The Premier League's La Liga. Or the Premier League's Camp Nou

It is not at all comparable.

We are in a situation at CPL where we are youngsters and really need to be tutored or coddled or patronised. And we need the money, and need the diversification, and the football knowledge.

The majors--clubs, leagues--are seeing Canada as an economically sound emerging soccer market, relatively untapped. That would never be the case with the scenarios you propose. 

 

[Aird25]

We don't need to be tutored, coddled or patronized. We need to be seen as a legitimate league by soccer fans in this country that grew up watching European competitions. Placing a European club/league as a league wide sponsor will have the opposite effect.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Aird25

[Cheeta]

I like the idea of EURO clubs buying into the league, a lot.  Early days yet whether the Atletico Ottawa scheme is really bringing a braintrust of knowledge to the city which will provide long term benefit to that footballing community but it's hard to imagine that it won't.  Honest or not, bringing in organizations like that at the most involved level brings some serious street cred along with it for the CPL.   To the layman if nobody else.  

If the next 4 expansion teams in the CPL are all proxies of EURO giants I'm going to market that until everyone is sick of hearing it.

But as the marquis sponsor for the league?  A big fat NO. Followed by many more smaller no,no,no, nos.   

 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, Aird25 said:

We don't need to be tutored, coddled or patronized. We need to be seen as a legitimate league by soccer fans in this country that grew up watching European competitions. Placing a European club/league as a league wide sponsor will have the opposite effect.

You are posting like you need to be tutored, coddles and patronised. 

I am happy to oblige, I liked your post.

[Unnamed Trialist]

21 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

I like the idea of EURO clubs buying into the league, a lot.  Early days yet whether the Atletico Ottawa scheme is really bringing a braintrust of knowledge to the city which will provide long term benefit to that footballing community but it's hard to imagine that it won't.  Honest or not, bringing in organizations like that at the most involved level brings some serious street cred along with it for the CPL.   To the layman if nobody else.  

If the next 4 expansion teams in the CPL are all proxies of EURO giants I'm going to market that until everyone is sick of hearing it.

But as the marquis sponsor for the league?  A big fat NO. Followed by many more smaller no,no,no, nos.   

The point is you like the At Ottawa option, and I argue that it is an arguable option from the perspective of Atlético de Madrid. Because running a club does not give you full value, as proven by Man City having NY City, or worse examples with Rayo Vallecano in Oklahoma City. 

Clubs that seek to grow their brand have to do more. Since it has never been explored, they should as I see it. 

Thinking you are good with an Italian shirt sponsor and a Spanish media partner, and then some totally unethical Canadian bank and a garbage beer brand, well that is contradictory.

[red card]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The point is you like the At Ottawa option, and I argue that it is an arguable option from the perspective of Atlético de Madrid. Because running a club does not give you full value, as proven by Man City having NY City, or worse examples with Rayo Vallecano in Oklahoma City. 

Clubs that seek to grow their brand have to do more. Since it has never been explored, they should as I see it. 

Thinking you are good with an Italian shirt sponsor and a Spanish media partner, and then some totally unethical Canadian bank and a garbage beer brand, well that is contradictory.

Multiple club ownership is being explored (since there is an acronym for it MCO) - from Man City to Leicester to RB Leipzig to Watford to Ajax to Monaco to AM to Bologna.

Too early to say if this works on all fronts. There are likely some synergies some as cost, analytics, scouting and player development. RB certainly benefits from the marketing angle.

Benefits accrue less to the main club or at least, it is taking longer to see. If you cherish the concept of clubs being locally sourced, MCO will offend you.

From a business angle, this is the standard way to grow revenue. Many of these main clubs were already multi-sport owners in their local market, so MCO is a natural extension. 

For football, I believe it is a net benefit as it provides a helping hand to smaller clubs, smaller leagues and immature markets.

Football Today had a recent podcast about it: Is the Red Bull Model the Future of Football?

 

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mb290YmFsbHRvZGF5LmxpYnN5bi5jb20vcnNz/episode/NWU0OTQyNTctNzI4NC00MDZjLTg0MDItNWI3MjMyNzJjYWU5?sa=X&ved=0CAcQuIEEahgKEwjw_5_3wMLvAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQ2w4

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, red card said:

Multiple club ownership is being explored (since there is an acronym for it MCO) - from Man City to Leicester to RB Leipzig to Watford to Ajax to Monaco to AM to Bologna.

Too early to say if this works on all fronts. There are likely some synergies some as cost, analytics, scouting and player development. RB certainly benefits from the marketing angle.

Benefits accrue less to the main club or at least, it is taking longer to see. If you cherish the concept of clubs being locally sourced, MCO will offend you.

From a business angle, this is the standard way to grow revenue. Many of these main clubs were already multi-sport owners in their local market, so MCO is a natural extension. 

For football, I believe it is a net benefit as it provides a helping hand to smaller clubs, smaller leagues and immature markets.

Football Today had a recent podcast about it: Is the Red Bull Model the Future of Football?

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mb290YmFsbHRvZGF5LmxpYnN5bi5jb20vcnNz/episode/NWU0OTQyNTctNzI4NC00MDZjLTg0MDItNWI3MjMyNzJjYWU5?sa=X&ved=0CAcQuIEEahgKEwjw_5_3wMLvAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQ2w4

Okay, but I am arguing against the model. 

Because I don't think it works for the owning clubs. 

Basically, that Atlético Ottawa gives much less to At Madrid than it does to the CPL in need of owner groups to run clubs in a league that needs to grow.

Man City model: it is not a club that owns the others, in MLS, Spain, Australia. It is a single ownership group. But I can't see how that network benefits them at all. The only thing that matters is Man City winning leagues and CLs, that's it.

 

[Aird25]

I wonder how Atletico would feel competing in the Barcelona CPL

[dyslexic nam]

14 hours ago, Cheeta said:

I like the idea of EURO clubs buying into the league, a lot.  Early days yet whether the Atletico Ottawa scheme is really bringing a braintrust of knowledge to the city which will provide long term benefit to that footballing community but it's hard to imagine that it won't.  Honest or not, bringing in organizations like that at the most involved level brings some serious street cred along with it for the CPL.   To the layman if nobody else.  

If the next 4 expansion teams in the CPL are all proxies of EURO giants I'm going to market that until everyone is sick of hearing it.

But as the marquis sponsor for the league?  A big fat NO. Followed by many more smaller no,no,no, nos.   

 

 

This sums up my perspective as well.  I don’t really see much downside to foreign club ownership.  I don’t really have an issue with it as I think it strengthens the league, diversifies the economic interests that want to see it succeed, and generates essential revenue at a crucial time.  I think the negatives are pretty minimal - the number of people in untapped markets who might follow  a rival club to the point where they would refuse to support a competitor’s local incarnation is probably quite small - and not enough to make any real economic difference.  The benefits (IMO) far outweigh the downsides.  Bring on the European giants.  
 

[Cheeta]

14 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The point is you like the At Ottawa option, and I argue that it is an arguable option from the perspective of Atlético de Madrid. Because running a club does not give you full value, as proven by Man City having NY City, or worse examples with Rayo Vallecano in Oklahoma City. 

Clubs that seek to grow their brand have to do more. Since it has never been explored, they should as I see it. 

Thinking you are good with an Italian shirt sponsor and a Spanish media partner, and then some totally unethical Canadian bank and a garbage beer brand, well that is contradictory.

100%.   It's hard for me to imagine the business benefit for AM in narrow terms.  I'm convinced the brass in Spain see an excellent opportunity with this Ottawa venture to build what is effectively a development academy, on the cheap, in the CPL with all other considerations just being added value.  Hope they're right.

As to a league sponsor it's all about image.  National brand or bigger.  If it cost $15M per to run the league and Scotiabank wants their name everywhere around I say write the cheque.  If that saves Valour $1.5M per maybe they would spend the allowed cap on player salaries.     

,  

[Dominic94]

15 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Okay, but I am arguing against the model. 

Because I don't think it works for the owning clubs. 

Basically, that Atlético Ottawa gives much less to At Madrid than it does to the CPL in need of owner groups to run clubs in a league that needs to grow.

Man City model: it is not a club that owns the others, in MLS, Spain, Australia. It is a single ownership group. But I can't see how that network benefits them at all. The only thing that matters is Man City winning leagues and CLs, that's it.

 

I agree with you in the sense that it’s bad if the partnership is just a way to increase brand exposure.

i want to see a partnership like the one Dallas have with Bayern, it took years before that one bore fruit but they do have some really nice fruit that resulted from it.

is Weston McKennie as good as he is without that training ?? What about Reynolds ? 
 

if Atletico is attempting to build a youth academy structure here, and is going to bring over the best Ottawa or even CPL area prospects im all for it and same deal with the Bundesliga or another club. 
 

if it’s a man city branding thing then no, we don’t need that.  But yes I’d be ok with the Ethiad’s Canadian Premier league or the Air Air Canada premier league. 

[yellowsweatygorilla]

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

If reps from all supporters groups are talking and agreeing on things, that is great in general. I am also impressed that they all saw clearly to support the players in this question. 

I think this shows our CPL supporters groups have a great future and are going to be a force to be reckoned with in years to come.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Latest insight on CanPL finances from the Blue Bombers being community owned:

 

 

[DigzTFC]

Really good point by Pa-Madou Kah

Olympic qualifying difference between Canada and Mexico:

• Mexico Starters had 1,400 Games of Experience, 1,200 Games Started with 179,000 min played
• Canada Starters had 280 Games of Experience, 189 Games Started with 17,000 min played
• Mexico had 88 Senior Caps in Experience
• Canada had 31 Senior Caps in Experience

He thinks that CPL is the perfect platform to address the experience gap.  I don't disagree with him

 

[Aird25]

So happy to have Pa and Merriman for another 5 years. They're excellent

[dyslexic nam]

500 pages in the thread.  
 

Damn!

[Dominic94]

On 3/29/2021 at 11:45 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Latest insight on CanPL finances from the Blue Bombers being community owned:

 

 

Doesn’t seem like the worst losses

[Dominic94]

3 hours ago, Aird25 said:

So happy to have Pa and Merriman for another 5 years. They're excellent

I think pacific is going to be a football factory, the play the kids movement and the training facility investment along with the grassroots work is going to payoff. 

[Ansem]

17 hours ago, DigzTFC said:

Really good point by Pa-Madou Ka

Olympic qualifying difference between Canada and Mexico:

• Mexico Starters had 1,400 Games of Experience, 1,200 Games Started with 179,000 min played
• Canada Starters had 280 Games of Experience, 189 Games Started with 17,000 min played
• Mexico had 88 Senior Caps in Experience
• Canada had 31 Senior Caps in Experience

He thinks that CPL is the perfect platform to address the experience gap.  I don't disagree with him

 

Yet I feel that this bias of looking at the league's crest over the minutes put in will still be a thing in Canada for a long time.

We'll still see guys who barely play 90s minutes get called up because they have an MLS shield over CPL guys playing regular full matches. Sure, they belong to a stronger team in a better league but coming off the bench doesn't mean you can go out there and take it to Mexicans and expect them to play for 90 minutes when they aren't used to do so at club level.

Some will say "yeah but MLS > CPL...stupid" to which is say - MLS > Honduras league too, yet you see what happens when you have guys who are used to play full games who are used and expected to compete, battle and grind out results for 90 minutes.

Unless people start understanding this - this will be a recuring problem at U23 and other youth team. Some of Biello's choice were puzzling and bizarre.

Just my 2 cents

[Aird25]

Pantemis and Norman were massive contributors this tournament and both of them most recently played in CPL. Though they both have MLS connections as well. I was surprised Farsi and Abzi were used so sparingly, and I think Ongaro or Campbell should have been in that squad

[Dominic94]

8 hours ago, Ansem said:

Yet I feel that this bias of looking at the league's crest over the minutes put in will still be a thing in Canada for a long time.

We'll still see guys who barely play 90s minutes get called up because they have an MLS shield over CPL guys playing regular full matches. Sure, they belong to a stronger team in a better league but coming off the bench doesn't mean you can go out there and take it to Mexicans and expect them to play for 90 minutes when they aren't used to do so at club level.

Some will say "yeah but MLS > CPL...stupid" to which is say - MLS > Honduras league too, yet you see what happens when you have guys who are used to play full games who are used and expected to compete, battle and grind out results for 90 minutes.

Unless people start understanding this - this will be a recuring problem at U23 and other youth team. Some of Biello's choice were puzzling and bizarre.

Just my 2 cents

I think going forward it needs to be watched but some of them played 7 games and were shutdown for months. Farsi is from QC he couldn’t even hit the gym, Abzi same deal.