Jump to content

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Ams1984 said:

Obviously not. They’ve become adversarial. Worse still, they’ve done it while a brand new league (which may or may not be financially viable) is trying to survive a pandemic with no fans and no gate. Use some sense please. 

Exactly - and these players are still eligible for CERB benefits as far as I know. They're average Canadian citizens and should be treated as such. Anyone who cares about Canadian soccer can't honestly advocate for an adversarial union at this stage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ams1984 said:

Obviously not. They’ve become adversarial. Worse still, they’ve done it while a brand new league (which may or may not be financially viable) is trying to survive a pandemic with no fans and no gate. Use some sense please. 

Those salary ranges were in place before the pandemic though. And I know it's worth inquiring on things like how the housing works, per diem, etc. But I think it's also worth it to point out that those don't seem anywhere near the "livable salaries" the league repeatedly emphasized on start up.  The tweet also seems to be emphasizing that they would have preferred a more progressive covid cuts (rather than the flat percentage i'm assuming they all took) to help protect the lower end players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Exactly - and these players are still eligible for CERB benefits as far as I know. They're average Canadian citizens and should be treated as such. Anyone who cares about Canadian soccer can't honestly advocate for an adversarial union at this stage.

The average Canadian citizen isn’t struggling to earn over 15k a year. These wages are not fair to the players. The argument that it’s this or they wouldn’t be playing is a bad one. Just because these players don’t have an abundance of other options mean they should be taken advantage of ? I also don’t like the “new league, low revenue” argument. If I open a mechanical shop today, that doesn’t mean I can pay my mechanics $12 an hour because it’s a new shop. I have to pay them a fair wage and expect to lose money for a few years.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Exactly - and these players are still eligible for CERB benefits as far as I know. They're average Canadian citizens and should be treated as such. Anyone who cares about Canadian soccer can't honestly advocate for an adversarial union at this stage.

I may have a different definition of adversarial than you, and for all intents and purposes, there is no union. But I also don't think many would change their opinion if one removed the word "adversarial" from this sentence.

Workers are not CERB eligible if they earn over $1000 a month. I'm not aware of the payment schedule for CPL squads, but they've all been at work since at least June, so players might have received 2 or 3 months worth of CERB cheques. No CPL player is laughing all the way to the bank in 2021. Owners may not be either, but for most, their CPL investment is a tiny fraction of their overall business holdings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I think there are plenty of details we are not privy to that makes this a more nuanced discussion, but in general the idea that labour should only have a voice when conditions are good seems ridiculous to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Reign said:

The average Canadian citizen isn’t struggling to earn over 15k a year. These wages are not fair to the players. The argument that it’s this or they wouldn’t be playing is a bad one. Just because these players don’t have an abundance of other options mean they should be taken advantage of ? I also don’t like the “new league, low revenue” argument. If I open a mechanical shop today, that doesn’t mean I can pay my mechanics $12 an hour because it’s a new shop. I have to pay them a fair wage and expect to lose money for a few years.  

Are they precluded from getting other jobs? These players are playing one month of football this year and many have had the opportunity to play on scholarships before that. Do you really think what they're doing equates to $12 per hour?

Let's get with reality and move away from entitlement. They're getting an opportunity that never existed prior in a start up league. If they want to push back against that they'll be back to earning nothing playing football before long. This platform is a springboard to better things so make the most of it OR use your degree to find something else.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Are they precluded from getting other jobs? These players are playing one month of football this year and many have had the opportunity to play on scholarships before that. Do you really think what they're doing equates to $12 per hour?

Let's get with reality and move away from entitlement. They're getting an opportunity that never existed prior in a start up league. If they want to push back against that they'll be back to earning nothing playing football before long. This platform is a springboard to better things so make the most of it OR use your degree to find something else.

 

I think there is a lot of middle ground between aggressive union tactics and your entitlement allegation.  I think players, playing pro sports, are thinking they deserve more than $15k per year.   They may only play during the season but these guys train and practice year-round.  There is no way you achieve this level of skill treating it like a part time summer gig.  
 

I have no idea when the league  will achieve a level of revenue that will allow them to pay a true living wage (and then beyond into luxury wages) but I do know that it is a reasonable expectation for guys who are expected to play a sport at a very high level and maintain peak physical conditioning. 
 

Lastly, the adage “you get what you pay for” is largely accurate.   If we are paying guys a part time wage, we can’t expect guys who warrant a higher wage to hang around for sentimental reasons and national pride.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Are they precluded from getting other jobs? These players are playing one month of football this year and many have had the opportunity to play on scholarships before that. Do you really think what they're doing equates to $12 per hour?

Let's get with reality and move away from entitlement. They're getting an opportunity that never existed prior in a start up league. If they want to push back against that they'll be back to earning nothing playing football before long. This platform is a springboard to better things so make the most of it OR use your degree to find something else.

 

If they are working other jobs they aren’t professional athletes. The league loves to talk about how they are a full on division 1 professional football league. That isn’t the case if they have to work night shift after practice. This isn’t about this season. The salary was going to be the same regardless of  the pandemic. Which means these guys would have been training and playing games for what 8 months ? During the off-season they are still expected to stay in shape and continue to do things for the club off the pitch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Reign said:

These wages are not fair to the players.

Would they earn better elsewhere? If yes, why are they in CPL?

I want guys to earn more too but that's up to them to raise their value so they can be sold to a club that will play them 6 figures. We are part of the FIFA market so if no one else were willing to pay them more or play them, that weakened their bargaining position. 

No leagues just "do the right thing", revenues have to follow as well

A union will go a long way to increase wages and increase the bargaining power of players but my god, they are going at it the wrong way and it won't get them what they want any faster.

All they are doing now is hurting the reputation of the league that's SO HARD to build from scratch hoping it speeds things up 

I've been unionized for 15 years and they are behaving like amateurs. That is NOT how you do things. 

I support the initiative, not the means. There's nothing evil in CPL letting them go through the entire process as guaranteed by the law.

Edited by Ansem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Would they earn better elsewhere? If yes, why are they in CPL?

I want guys to earn more too but that's up to them to raise their value so they can be sold to a club that will play them 6 figures.

If this is the mentality and I'm a player, I'm only signing one year deals with my CPL team and leaving on a free transfer as soon as I get a better offer. Why bother letting the club sell me, when I could get more as a free agent?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's not forget that part of the reason this union got formed so quickly is because the owners failed to keep them informed of what was going on at the start of the pandemic before then unilaterally cutting wages. The damage to the league was self-inflicted here, and just keeping the players better informed and listening to them probably would have gone a long way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

season including pre season is around 8 months..they can keep fit in the other four months while having a part time job..this is just the reality of an entry level pro soccer league in north america..owners dont want to lose millions and people are doing their best to make this work financially..so appreciate the opportunity and hope for higher revenues to be able to pay higher salaries..if really not happy there is no obligation..we've seen a few players decide to not sign to be able to be with their business or job..and majority of these players would just not be playing pro if this league wasnt here..first time I heard this champ guy I knew they were getting ready for a confrontation..this is a big mistake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Big_M said:

season including pre season is around 8 months..they can keep fit in the other four months while having a part time job..this is just the reality of an entry level pro soccer league in north america..owners dont want to lose millions and people are doing their best to make this work financially..so appreciate the opportunity and hope for higher revenues to be able to pay higher salaries..if really not happy there is no obligation..we've seen a few players decide to not sign to be able to be with their business or job..and majority of these players would just not be playing pro if this league wasnt here..first time I heard this champ guy I knew they were getting ready for a confrontation..this is a big mistake

Assuming the players get a part time job for the other 4 months, you're still asking the majority of them to live on less than 22k for 8 months. That's still shockingly low, though maybe it depends on what part of the country you're in too.  And "do it for the exposure" and be a pretty exploitative practice. 

Look, the league heavily promoted "making sure every player had a living wage" before it started. It's clearly fallen short of that. It doesn't meant the league's a failure, it just means its something that needs to be acknowledged and worked on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its just not shockingly low..didnt do the math but 22k for 8 months seems much above minimum salary..and if they are getting a free place and food even better..its really not hard to get..this is entry level pro soccer which if it wasnt there a large number would still be playing semi pro..and you know how much they were getting there..0-5000 for a lot of them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't find the thread now that was earlier today talking about TSN and Sportsnet ignoring CPL. I just thought I'd mention that the on-air talent do make mention. Luke Wileman during the TFC vs Whitecaps game was just talking about the referee's assistant making her debut in MLS. He mentioned that she did the 3rd place game in the women's World Cup last year, and has done some CPL games as well. "It's not just the players and coaches that get opportunities in the CPL, it's officials as well." That quote is an approximation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kent said:

I can't find the thread now that was earlier today talking about TSN and Sportsnet ignoring CPL. I just thought I'd mention that the on-air talent do make mention. Luke Wileman during the TFC vs Whitecaps game was just talking about the referee's assistant making her debut in MLS. He mentioned that she did the 3rd place game in the women's World Cup last year, and has done some CPL games as well. "It's not just the players and coaches that get opportunities in the CPL, it's officials as well." That quote is an approximation.

The on on air, play by play guys arent the problem.  I didnt catch the highlight packages to see who covered what, but look at the websites for TSN and Sportsnet.  Sportsnet has stories about everything u need to know about the Island games, CPL round up etc.  Then check TSN, I cant find anything, no stories, no links etc.  Like its the chinese internet and its been scrubbed of the CPL.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Watchmen said:

If this is the mentality and I'm a player, I'm only signing one year deals with my CPL team and leaving on a free transfer as soon as I get a better offer. Why bother letting the club sell me, when I could get more as a free agent?

Well without league/stage to showcase your talent and actually improve, you aren't going anywhere significantly better or nowhere at all. With USL no longer counting Canadians as domestic next year, that's another door closing and there goes your bargaining power

Last year was Year 1, technically most of the players were "rookies" coming from semi-pro or developmental leagues. How much are they worth on the market? If CPL pays significantly below market value than yeah that's awful but I don't think they are.

Players have their "value and future" entirely under their control. Work hard and get a raise or moved somewhere better. As the league progress and players gains experience, salaries will go up as their value will also increase, even more if they perform

A union is an excellent thing to cover benefits, work conditions, legal stuff and better salaries but it's not ok if the goal is to get the league to pay above market value this soon with such a small pool with pro experience...otherwise how sure are you that the 6 starting Canadian rule will still be a thing?

Might as well make it worth their while and pay those higher wages to foreigners who might help draw more fans with a higher quality product...but at what price? Less Canadian minutes...Do we want that?

Action - reaction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Kent said:

I can't find the thread now that was earlier today talking about TSN and Sportsnet ignoring CPL. I just thought I'd mention that the on-air talent do make mention. Luke Wileman during the TFC vs Whitecaps game was just talking about the referee's assistant making her debut in MLS. He mentioned that she did the 3rd place game in the women's World Cup last year, and has done some CPL games as well. "It's not just the players and coaches that get opportunities in the CPL, it's officials as well." That quote is an approximation.

I was hoping they would mention the Y9 vs PFC game during the Whitecaps vs TFC game. Nothing! And essentially these games are all part of the greater Voyageurs Cup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...